Forums - Jin teaches MvC2, on this forum =) Show all 585 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Jin teaches MvC2, on this forum =) (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4361) Posted by Jinmaster on 02:26:2001 11:43 PM: Okay, only a few people came to my board to post questions last time I tried this. I figure its easier to do it here. If you want to know who I am, you can go to http://www.geocities.com/therealjinmaster and see what I'm about. For those who don't know, I'm one of the top Nor Cal MvC2 players and I've got a lot of exposure. Any questions anyone wants to ask can be posted here, and I'll do my best to answer them. So ask away, but please remember that when you ask me questions to be specific so I help out as much as I can. Thanks, -Micah Posted by Fakefist on 02:27:2001 12:26 AM: ok, I got a ?: What else does ruby heart have, in terms of play strategies? I saw the viscant video and have been using her and doom for the flame, rock trap, but it seems that If I can't get it started early game Ruby gets rocked. I'd like to be able to mix it up w/ Ruby (use different tactics), but I haven't found anything incredibly useful with her yet. Enlighten me, please. Posted by StarFire on 02:27:2001 12:43 AM: Okay I got some questions: I'm about to enter my third tourney which I know I won't win but still wanna do good. It's gonna be that Texas one with Duc and those other real good people coming. Anyways I basically need to know which of my teams to play and such. Basically I play with these teams, 1. Spiral, Cable, Sentinal 2. Storm, Doom, Sent or Blackheart 3. Spiral, Storm, Cable 4. Spiral/Storm, Cable, Cyclops Now my best characters are Spiral, Storm, Cable, Doom, and Sentinal in about that order. I'm iffy on both Cyclops and Blackheart and even a little on Sentinal, and play them the basic ways. Now my problem in tourneys are finding counter-teams. I have an unbelievable amount of trouble against Blackheart and Sentinal teams, and also great rushdown. If possible help me tweek my teams and tell me which ones work the best against BH, Sent, and rushdown. Can I play the Spiral, Storm, and Cable team effectively or do they not really work to well together? Also how is the Cable/Storm trap performed exactly? [This message has been edited by StarFire (edited 02-26-2001).] Posted by manny on 02:27:2001 12:55 AM: Is wolverine good for anything? http://www.geocities.com/to2008/MCtag.gif Posted by SinfestBoy on 02:27:2001 12:57 AM: If I AHVB someone, and then they suddenly fart, should I keep playing or break out laughing? Posted by ~Wind on 02:27:2001 01:30 AM: I actually have some questions: 1) I was using doom, blackheart, cammy before and I ran into a lot of trouble fighting iceman. is there's a way to beat iceman using doom and bh? 2) And I'm trying to decide which team i should stick with: doom, bh, cammy or ice, doom, cammy. (cammy mostly to knock the guy away). It would be great if you could give me some suggestions. [This message has been edited by ~Wind (edited 02-26-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 02:13 AM: Wow, lots of stuff to cover: _______________________________________ "Fakefist ok, I got a ?: What else does ruby heart have, in terms of play strategies? I saw the viscant video and have been using her and doom for the flame, rock trap, but it seems that If I can't get it started early game Ruby gets rocked. I'd like to be able to mix it up w/ Ruby (use different tactics), but I haven't found anything incredibly useful with her yet. Enlighten me, please." Reply: Unfortuanely, Viscant probably has the best Ruby in the country. My advice is to still fill the screen, but make sure your opponent does not establish full-screen, becuase you can't make them block pillars from that far away. I don't play Ruby too much myself, and I tend to think of her as a Spiral counter more than anything. A pillar XX punch super will stop most teleport attempts. I think that if you play her more often that you will get used to how she moves and you will get better at the trap. RE-EDIT 4-6-01: Don't pillar XX fireball super hoping you will catch spiral, you have to DHC to storm becuase you can't predict where she will appear. Ruby gives spiral trouble but thats in the hands of very good players, a mediocre Ruby will loose to a mediocre spiral, and worse to an expert one. ___________________________________ "Okay I got some questions: I'm about to enter my third tourney which I know I won't win but still wanna do good. It's gonna be that Texas one with Duc and those other real good people coming. Anyways I basically need to know which of my teams to play and such. Basically I play with these teams, 1. Spiral, Cable, Sentinal 2. Storm, Doom, Sent or Blackheart 3. Spiral, Storm, Cable 4. Spiral/Storm, Cable, Cyclops Now my best characters are Spiral, Storm, Cable, Doom, and Sentinal in about that order. I'm iffy on both Cyclops and Blackheart and even a little on Sentinal, and play them the basic ways. Now my problem in tourneys are finding counter-teams. I have an unbelievable amount of trouble against Blackheart and Sentinal teams, and also great rushdown. If possible help me tweek my teams and tell me which ones work the best against BH, Sent, and rushdown. Can I play the Spiral, Storm, and Cable team effectively or do they not really work to well together? Also how is the Cable/Storm trap performed exactly?" Reply: First, all of your teams are good. You seem to know what you are doing in general, so I think what it comes down to is how you play vs certain teams as opposed to who you choose to play. Spiral/Storm/Cable is a good team, I think it has a slight advantage over Spiral/Cable/Sentinel becuase Storm-A assist will help you control the ground. You just have to be careful of sentinel Mini's going over the typhoons. Most people don't know this, but you can take control of the Spiral/Spiral fight by throwing the fireball with jab knives. The circle will fly through almost all the crap on the screen, including a few knives through storm assist. I'm not aware of a real trap with Cable/Storm, but you can mimmick the Cable/Spiral one: S.Fierce(call storm), fierce, fierce, feirce, short gernade (repeat) There are two more: Call storm, J.fierce, gernade, land, (repeat) Or call storm and j.fierce, fierce beam mashed down, J.fierce+Storm, you get the idea. I deal with BH/Sent by playing Cable to the best of my ability. You can intterupt the BH/Sent trap via alpha counters. If Cable is not in, block the fierce-beam and alpha to Cable-AAA, and cancel to AHVB. That takes care of Sent/BH very well. Also, there is a window between fierce and short-drones that you can AHVB, provided you do it right off the ground and you wiggle the beam. Make sure that you mash all of the top 3 buttons when you land AHVB. It will do more damage when you hit the assist button as well. Counters to that Sent/BH/stuff team may include Strider/Doom/Commando, Or Spiral/Cable/Sentinel. In fact, Spiral/Cable/Sentinel has very few weaknesses. RE-EDIT 4-6-01: Spiral has major problems with Sentinel/BH becuase it's so hard for her to get anything started. You have to play very well to battery for Cable against them without losing her or taking massive damage. For anti-Magneto, hardcore counters have Jin-AAA in them, but Cable/Clops still has a slight advantage. You need to know exacty what you are doing, and being good at defending up-close throw attempts will be very useful. If you are using Spiral, just make sure you can keep Mag off you when Storm assist comes out. Also remember to NEVER teleport when mags is whiffing a super and Storm is next in line. Hope that helps some ___________________________________________ "manny Is wolverine good for anything?" Reply: Not by himself, but I think Bone-wolvie is good when backed by the proper assists. Sentinel and/or BH make him playable. Things to note: 1) you can mash the shit out of his throw for a lot of damage. 2) you don't always have to go for a BBX combo, the one ending in a DP does ok damage 3) so use him as a rushdown/battery __________________________________________ "SinfestBoy If I AHVB someone, and then they suddenly fart, should I keep playing or break out laughing?" Reply: I have no desire to help spammers like yourself with their game. _____________________________________________ "~Wind I actually have some questions: 1) I was using doom, blackheart, cammy before and I ran into a lot of trouble fighting iceman. is there's a way to beat iceman using doom and bh?" Reply: Yes, but it involves using doom's assist. I suggest starting blackheart and doing SJ.roundhouse, air dash, SJ. roundhouse, call doom the second you land, and jump up again as part of a trap. It actually depends on what Iceman is surrounding himself with. What is the team? Also, Iceman can't rush you down becuase you can just back-jump-fierce and call cammy and whatnot. "2) And I'm trying to decide which team i should stick with: doom, bh, cammy or ice, doom, cammy. (cammy mostly to knock the guy away). It would be great if you could give me some suggestions." Reply: Hm, of those 4 people I would make my team Doom/BH/Cammy or something similar and save Iceman for counter teams. Iceman doesn't do very well against Spiral teams and Doom-chip teams. He actually does ok against Doom-AAA as long as he has an invincible AAA to deal with doom. Ken is ideal but a team with Iceman and Ken on it is not a versatile one. Cammy is a strange character, her assist really hurts Doom and a few other bombers though. I can't contribute too much more until you tell me what team you are fighting and what their plan is. __________________________________________ Keep em coming guys, I'll see what I can do to help. Posted by ~Wind on 02:27:2001 03:06 AM: thanks for the response jinmaster. hm guess i forgot to tell you who i usually face, sorry about that. 1) cable doom bh is one that i commonly face. they usually try to lock you down with a viper beam while the rocks chip you. and when cable dies, they usually go into some kinda of doom/bh or bh/doom trap. 2) iceman doom cable is another one. usually crossup with iceman while doom chips from behind. 3) spiral sentinel juggernaut. spiral trap. if you beam, spiral teleports. sometimes sentinel on point and uses "beam, punch, hsf" juggle. 4) cammy storm tbonne. this ones a bitch. usually storm assist, cannon drill crossup. or tbonne assist (gamma) then cammy aircombo (this kills). or cammy spin drive smasher into hailstorm. or storm aircombo, lightning storm into tbonne hammer super. 5) the standard cable cyclops style. these are usually the styles/teams i face. so how should i play against these teams and which team should i use against them? some of the characters that I use well are doom (my best), cammy, iceman, magneto, blackheart, and sakura (strange but shes good). Do you have any suggestions? [This message has been edited by ~Wind (edited 02-26-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 03:35 AM: "thanks for the response jinmaster. hm guess i forgot to tell you who i usually face, sorry about that." Reply: No problem "1) cable doom bh is one that i commonly face. they usually try to lock you down with a viper beam while the rocks chip you. and when cable dies, they usually go into some kinda of doom/bh or bh/doom trap." Reply: Well, I don't have much advice with your current team, but you could try calling BH and super-jumping with doom and throwing shocks out. Cable doesn't have a real answer other than a preemptive AVHB. I suggest using a different team, either Spiral/Cable/AAA(or sentinel) or even Cable/Storm/Clops. Having your own Cable with a serious AAA will let you beat the other Cable team beucase of his lack of one. "2) iceman doom cable is another one. usually crossup with iceman while doom chips from behind." Reply: You can beat this by doing what I said in my last post. Jump back fierce with BH while calling Cammy if he gets too close. When you get the chance, do the BH/Doom-AAA trap on them becuase he has no AAA other than Cable, who won't be able to stop you. "3) spiral sentinel juggernaut. spiral trap. if you beam, spiral teleports. sometimes sentinel on point and uses "beam, punch, hsf" juggle." Reply: You can beat this team just by J.fierce and BH calls, but you can also use your own spiral team. Once Spiral is out of the picture, your own storm could wreak some havoc, or your own Cable. His team is really weak becuase of Juggernaut. If he tries to glitch him, just do your longest combo, let him switch, and snap jugg back in for more damage. "4) cammy storm tbonne. this ones a bitch. usually storm assist, cannon drill crossup. or tbonne assist (gamma) then cammy aircombo (this kills). or cammy spin drive smasher into hailstorm. or storm aircombo, lightning storm into tbonne hammer super." Reply: This is nothing too new, the key is to not get hit by Tron assist cuase of the damage. I suggest using Cammy AAA and turtling a lot with Doom or BH. A good spiral team will beat it, as well as a team that has Jin on it, if you like counter-teams. In fact, its hard to go wrong with Cable/Storm/AAA unless there are some damn good Mag teams or Spiral teams against you. "these are usually the styles/teams i face. so how should i play against these teams and which team should i use against them? I was thinking to keep doom and cammy for sure (doom being my best "character" and cammy being my best "fighter"). some other characters that I use well are iceman, magneto, blackheart, and sakura (strange but shes good). Do you have any suggestions?" I have to get off work so I may comment some more when I get home. It sounds like you don't use BH very much outside of his assist. Try using him more and using his shorts, they have mad priority. -Micah Posted by DarthSalamander on 02:27:2001 03:42 AM: Thanks for helping out. 1) What is the best way to get around Cable with Commando assist with Sentinel. It is a hard match but I have won it before with a lot of fly cancelling, but I like to hear yoiur thoughts. 2) I'm also not very sure that I'm fly canceling well with Sent. What are commom procedure, tactics, etc. 3) On mashing, you said hitting the top 3 buttons on an AHVB does more damage. What about the bottom 3? So should noly mash with either the top 3 or bottom 3(for instance if I throw with Ken's knee mash, should I only mash the bottom 3 buttons?) 4) Also I have been playing Sent/Doom/BH(I focus on Sent/BH teams) but am thinking of trading Doom for Spiral. What are your thoughts on this, or any other combination I might try? "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by ~Wind on 02:27:2001 04:13 AM: actually i do use bh but only for chip (doom assist and hod). i took your advice and started trying spiral. im not that good with her. do you have any tips for her? and if i were to use spiral, would she be better with doom/bh or cable/cyke? Posted by TheGreatWiseman on 02:27:2001 04:21 AM: TheGreatWiseman says "We had only about 11 participants in the 2-25 tourney. It would be nice to have more people at the next Folsom tourney." Posted by manny on 02:27:2001 05:03 AM: Hey Jinmaster thanks for the reply: Can you give me some Wolverine strats? I need a few decent air combos that start off witha rush-in. If you can't help me, could you direct me to someone who could? Thanks again/ Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 05:24 AM: Great Wiseman, I thought the tournament was THIS sunday! Wtf wiseman? I thought they were bi-weekly... we weren't counting 2-17? Shit. Anyhow, ______________________________________ "Thanks for helping out. 1) What is the best way to get around Cable with Commando assist with Sentinel. It is a hard match but I have won it before with a lot of fly cancelling, but I like to hear yoiur thoughts." Reply: That would depend on who you have with Sentinel, obviously if you have Blackheart, the fight is much easier than if your team had been Spiral/Cable/Sent. I suggest fly cancelling quite a bit actually. I don't know if you've seen all the vids on this site yet, but there is one vid where Sent is trying to rush doom down in the corner, with a J.fierce, fly, roundhouse, unfly. Works well, But to answer your question, you will need a combination of chipping and flying while calling blackheart to win. You have to bait commando assist if you are going to try to rush Cable down, and you will have to fight for your opening if Cable is starting to rush you down. I suggest that at fullscreen that you SJ, Fly(call BH), and jab rocket-punch downward. Cable will have no AHVB options and you can unfly. Tell me more about your team before I go into more detail. "2) I'm also not very sure that I'm fly canceling well with Sent. What are commom procedure, tactics, etc." Reply: Well, I outlined one of them. A second thing you should know is that flying with short over and over again while calling assists is a thing of the past. Against Cable especially, J.roundhouse is your friend. Try dashing forward and SJ up with roundhouse, fly, roundhouse, unfly. Call an assist during flight if the situation calls for it, or wait till you land. When you make them block a C. or S. fierce, cancel into HSF, and continue with, C.fierce(call BH during), Short(or roundhouse*hold down button*) drones, C.fierce, HSF, C.fierce(call BH), etc. Threre is no escape from that other than Alpha counters and teleports. When you run out of meter, C.fierce(call BH), cancel into fly, stomp on em, and go build your meters again. "3) On mashing, you said hitting the top 3 buttons on an AHVB does more damage. What about the bottom 3? So should noly mash with either the top 3 or bottom 3(for instance if I throw with Ken's knee mash, should I only mash the bottom 3 buttons?)" Reply:From full screen, on the ground, 1 cable vs another: Average testing: 1 HVB unmashed: 56 points 1 HVB 2-punches mashed: 59 points 1 HVB 2+punches+assist-1: 65 points Ken: Kick grab with no mashing: 16 points Kick grab with harcore stick left-right motion: 28 points Kick grab with hardcore mashing on buttons & stick: 36 points Use all buttons, and focus HARD on the left-right movement. "4) Also I have been playing Sent/Doom/BH(I focus on Sent/BH teams) but am thinking of trading Doom for Spiral. What are your thoughts on this, or any other combination I might try?" Valle uses Spiral-A/Sent-A/BH-B. It's a damn good team. Focus on spiral traps/tactics and safe-switch to Sentinel. When you HSF trap, Spiral piles on more chip than BH. ___________________________________________ "Wind, actually i do use bh but only for chip (doom assist and hod). i took your advice and started trying spiral. im not that good with her. do you have any tips for her? and if i were to use spiral, would she be better with doom/bh or cable/cyke?" I think you should use either Spiral/Cable/Cyke or Spiral/Sentinel/BH or Spiral/Cable/Sentinel. The cyke team is weak against a Storm player that has a lead. Then second team is very strong vs Storm, but weak vs Strider/Doom and some Mag teams, the last one is pretty good, and can win against almost anything. It has trouble with some rushdown and strider/doom due to no invincible AAA. Basic spiral play is find a way to call knives, jump up normally and throw 3 on the way down, 3 on the way up, and re-call. Call Sentinel to facilitate this. If they SJ out, jump up and Circle-knife(QCF+light kick). Restart trap. If your helper gets AHVBed, teleport inbetween to stop Cable, but watch out for that DHC to Storm is she is next on the opposing team. Other than that, come up with punch-throw setups. They do a super-worth of damage for no meter if you land them and mash them. Basic AC is launch, 1,2,3,Time delay, 4, DP-throw. Super combo is launch when you have knives, Sj.short X2, circle-knife(qcf+short), XX metamorph, mash fierce. _____________________________________________ More quesions are welcome. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 05:27 AM: Manny, "Hey Jinmaster thanks for the reply: Can you give me some Wolverine strats? I need a few decent air combos that start off witha rush-in. If you can't help me, could you direct me to someone who could? Thanks again/" Well, most of what I know of using Wolvie is based off what Viscant has posted. BH and Sentinel give Wolvie what he needs to get in and land those throws which you should mash the shit out of. If you tell me what Team you are putting him on, I could be of more help. Otherwise, Viscant is your man for Wolvie, Ruby, and Samurai advice. I'm also not a Dhalsim expert. =P -Micah Keep it coming. Posted by on 02:27:2001 05:34 AM: What're the best ways to combo in Proton Cannon for Iron Man? Why won't it go up? http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/snk-terry.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 05:45 AM: Manny, 2 things about bone wolvie: 1)I mashed his throw for 50 points on Cable 2)The strongest non-jump-in combo I know is dash jab, C.strong, S.roundhouse, SJ while holding toward and hit fierce on the way up, immediately cancel into DP with fierce, and mash fierce while the DP is going. This combe does between 56-59 points on Cable. You can do a lot more with a roundhouse jump-in. Contrast with dashing jab, jab, jab, BBX: 53 points. The strongest grond combo is hard to do: jab, jab, jab, beserker barrage mash for 2-3 hits, BBX, which is like 62 points of damage. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 05:48 AM: "What're the best ways to combo in Proton Cannon for Iron Man?" Reply: Dashing jab or shot, C.strong, proton cannon. If you are hella good, you can C.strong into repulsor blast and combo a cannon. In the corner, you can combo it after a standing Smartbomb I think. Lastly, Psylocke should set it up for you as well. -Micah Posted by fei long on 02:27:2001 05:55 AM: supz , well my question is how a storm -c cable-b type team can take out a cable-a sentinal-c and bh -b , i ve been told to dash ,triangle to dodge assists , but i still find it hard to use storm due to bh , cable mostly gives me the most problems ,o yeah suggestions on a third character? ~!payce out!~ Posted by PSY on 02:27:2001 06:08 AM: hey Jinmaster great job! i'd like some help on T.bonne in general and who i should use with her as point...and also what is her best assist and how to use it effectively and with who? thanks a lot! Posted by ~Wind on 02:27:2001 06:18 AM: thx. That's pretty interesting. so how many "styles" (main ones that ppl play) are there anyway? you mentioned mag teams, strider/bh. could you tell me what they are and what they do so i can get a sense of the competition out there? thx. Posted by Jonstar! on 02:27:2001 06:29 AM: How would you fight Doom/Cable/BH with my team of IM/psyloke/cable.. -Jon Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 06:31 AM: "fei long supz , well my question is how a storm -c cable-b type team can take out a cable-a sentinal-c and bh -b , i ve been told to dash ,triangle to dodge assists , but i still find it hard to use storm due to bh , cable mostly gives me the most problems ,o yeah suggestions on a third character? ~!payce out!~" Reply: Well, I dislike storm-C in non-trap teams becuase the storm-A is so much more useful, due to its invincibility. As for your question, you only need to super jump up and wait for the little pointer at the bottom of the screen to show up, indicating BH is coming out. Thats when you either air-dash or lightning attack. Moral of the story is, once you actually start getting the vertical typhoons out, Cable will have to jump around to make space for BH to come out wihout getting hit. But really, you are at a disadvantage vs this team with Storm in front. You should put Cable-AAA first and Storm-A second, with a serious AAA last... such as Cammy, Cyclops, or Psylocke. Then you have an invincible projectile and an invincible AAA behind your Cable. Then you can rush the other Cable down becuase he has no AAA and will make a mistake eventually. __________________________________________ "PSY hey Jinmaster great job! i'd like some help on T.bonne in general and who i should use with her as point...and also what is her best assist and how to use it effectively and with who? thanks a lot!" Reply: Thanks for the compliment. Anyhow, I think her best assist is the gamma-projectile assist, but her throw assist is preferred by some people. I say gamma becuase the thing does A LOT of damage and it stops A LOT of the things in the game: Noteable things that Tron gamma will stop: 1) Juggernaut Headcrush and Jugg Dash assist 2) Hyper-Sentinel-Force(crouch behind her) 3) Dash-ins 4) Doom-AAA (I think) The list goes on. What I think you should do is use Mag or Storm or Doom and Triangle-jump/Air-dash over while calling her. She does massive damage and hits long enough for you to do any combo you want. You can take doom and go C.jab(call tron), C.jab, dash forward C.jab(tron still hitting), C.jab, c.fierce, full AC. On point, you can kind of trap with her by calling assists and shooting DP Kubons. Like DP Kubon, call doom, fireball-kubon, DP Kubon, repeat. You can also SJ and to the drill across the screen, back and forth if you want, to manuver her. Her J.fierce is good and crosses up. Two S.jabs or S.shorts sets up the punch super. Her QCB+PP super Kubon is safe if Cable blocks it, you immediately recover. You can also AHVB with her drill, and recover quickly. Call doom and AHVB drill(down, down+toward, toward, up+toward+roundhouse). You will come slightly off the ground an recover faster than normal. __________________________________________ Good questions guys, keep it coming, -Micah Posted by fei long on 02:27:2001 06:42 AM: sup again , whats your business team? how would my team now , revised , storm-a cable-b cyclops-b take out your team,, umm its ok if you dont wanna tell me how i would play against it cause you would be telling me how to beat your team basically, but what cahnce do i have aginst you nowadays neways ~!payce out!~ Posted by strider_hien on 02:27:2001 06:51 AM: Ok, when i use Cable, and try to connect the AHVB more than once, i always screw up on the 2nd one. Any suggestions? i think i'm not aiming the beam in the right direction. For storm, can i link more than 1 lightning attack, b4 i super cancel into the lightning storm? I know you can do it in the corner, but can you do it out in the open too? For Cyke, i can't get the timing for the Double Jump air combo right, i always jump past the person, any suggestions? thanks for all the help Jinmaster! Posted by on 02:27:2001 06:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: "What're the best ways to combo in Proton Cannon for Iron Man?" Reply: Dashing jab or shot, C.strong, proton cannon. If you are hella good, you can C.strong into repulsor blast and combo a cannon. In the corner, you can combo it after a standing Smartbomb I think. Lastly, Psylocke should set it up for you as well. -Micah Thanks bro. Why won't it go up? http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/snk-terry.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 06:54 AM: "~Wind thx. That's pretty interesting. so how many "styles" (main ones that ppl play) are there anyway? you mentioned mag teams, strider/bh. could you tell me what they are and what they do so i can get a sense of the competition out there? thx." Reply: Well, I'm not ready to write a book but I will give the abridged versions: Spiral-A/Cable-B/Sentinel-C Spiral-A/Sentinel-C/Blackheart-B Spiral-A/Cable-B/ and either Cyke, Psylocke, or Cammy AAA. The point of the first two teams is to chip and trap with Spiral wall-of-swords while calling sentinel to facilitate the trap. Then safe switch(4 knives, if they blocking, switch) into Cable or Sentinel with full meter. Cable does his thing, or Sentinel does the Sent/BH trap. Cable can chip by making you block 5 AHVB and 5 Spiral projectiles. The last team is more against rushdown and yet has more trouble vs Storm teams. Then theres Strider-B/Doom-B/Commando-B Doom-B/Strider-B/Cable-B Strider-B/Doom-B/BH-B These teams are just basic strider teams. The first one is mostly used as a counter team. The second one uses Doom to battery for Strider. The last blackheart one is useful against Doom and Storm teams. The whole point is to chip as much as possible with Uroboros and Doom-B assist, while teleporting to stay in the face of the opponent. Next is: Doom-B/Storm-A/Sentinel-C Doom-B/Storm-A/ either Cyclops, Ken, or Commando AAA Doom-B/Storm-A/Blackheart-B The first team is an anti-spiral team. Call Sent while J.fiercing with Doom. Chip her with SJ super photons, if she teleports, DHC to Storm's hailstorm for a good amount of damage. Second team is just a counter team that I used a lot just for kicks that does well against many teams. Last team is just a good trap team. The purpose of the teams are to land a super air photon array, and DHC to storm and run for the rest of the match. Then there's Mag/Storm/AAA Which is good in that Magneto rapes helpers via launch, standing kick-super, re-launch, do it again and you can DHC hail when you are threatened. Also, you cannot mash out of tempest combos becuase you can Hail before they shake out and do massive damage anyhow. Most people use Cyclops or Psylocke, but Psylocke fits the DHC team dynamic better. Most teams revolve around the following main strats: Cable/Storm Sent/BH Spiral Run-away storm Strider/Doom Most teams have at least one of these characters, for some reason, with differing AAA's and stuff. ____________________________________________ "Jonstar! How would you fight Doom/Cable/BH with my team of IM/psyloke/cable.. -Jon" That depends on what assist Cable is. You can rush that team down if they choose Cable-A. Also, make sure you know Iron-Man's infinite. Combo it when you land Psylocke AAA. As for your qeuestion, I think you should play rushdown with Iron man and Psylocke assist. Don't let him run from you, if you stay in his face, BH won't be able to come out without getting hit. I would only SJ up and do smartbombs if Doom is also in the air but below you so he cannot call BH. A lot of knee-stomp into flight will work if he does not have Cable-AAA. If he does have it, you can still do it but don't be as predictable and use Psylocke when you go into flight to keep you safe. I kind of think you need to put Psylocke last, but that's just me. Can you possibly give me more detail on what your opponent does? ______________________________________ -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-26-2001).] Posted by State of Nature on 02:27:2001 06:55 AM: this isn't my info, and I don't play Ruby, but one other thing Viscant mentioned was using her rushing super into DHC to punish mistakes. Apparently her super has really good start up, can be aimed, but does bad damage by itself, so if you see a mistake and you have two supers, rush super to hailstorm or powerful DHC is a good tactic. Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 07:07 AM: "fei long sup again , whats your business team? how would my team now , revised , storm-a cable-b cyclops-b take out your team,, umm its ok if you dont wanna tell me how i would play against it cause you would be telling me how to beat your team basically, but what cahnce do i have aginst you nowadays neways ~!payce out!~ " Reply: I can't really say becuase I have quite a few teams. Basically, I'm playing Spiral quite a bit so your team might not do so hot unless you outplay me by a lot. Sorry I can't help much, but I feel Cable/Storm/AAA is weak vs Spiral. ________________________________________ "strider_hien Ok, when i use Cable, and try to connect the AHVB more than once, i always screw up on the 2nd one. Any suggestions? i think i'm not aiming the beam in the right direction. For storm, can i link more than 1 lightning attack, b4 i super cancel into the lightning storm? I know you can do it in the corner, but can you do it out in the open too? For Cyke, i can't get the timing for the Double Jump air combo right, i always jump past the person, any suggestions? thanks for all the help Jinmaster! " Reply: #1) the AHVB motion is Down/Down+toward/Toward/Up+toward+PP. When you do it the first time, mash the two punches and hold down on the stick, if they happen to pop up, keep mashing the punch buttons but go up with the stick. The next part is just practice. Do it once more but mash up the whole time. For the third AHVB you can normal jump, then do the super. If you can't do the AHVB shortcut, just keep jumping normally and cancel into AHVB as fast as you can. It's really just practice and timing. #2) You can launch into 4 hits into 2 lightning attacks into a punch super, but you cannot do 3 lightning attacks into a punch super. If Cable accidently does a ground HVB instead of an AHVB, hit the short+fierce right when you come out of stun. You will hit cable even at full screen, and you can cancel into lightning storm. #3) You shouldn't do air combos with Cyke, they do weak damage, but if you want a nice combo that will work on Cable and not many other people: launch, Sj.(do the following on the way up, don't delay, fisrt hit should hit Cables feet), 1,2,3,1,2,3, double-jump, 1,2,3,4, roundhouse throw. Otherwise, stay on the ground and connect standing or crouching short into 2 standing roundhouses into a Cylone-Kick for 2 bits into a Super optic blast(kick super), aim it down+toward and mash buttons for more damage. Also, any time you land a ground optic blast on a non-super-armored opponent, do a kick super and it will combo too. __________________________________ -Micah I'm tired now guys, I'll start replying again tomorrow sometime, keep on asking questions if ya like. =) Posted by Jonstar! on 02:27:2001 08:58 AM: ___________________________________________ "Jonstar! How would you fight Doom/Cable/BH with my team of IM/psyloke/cable.. -Jon" That depends on what assist Cable is. You can rush that team down if they choose Cable-A. Also, make sure you know Iron-Man's infinite. Combo it when you land Psylocke AAA. As for your qeuestion, I think you should play rushdown with Iron man and Psylocke assist. Don't let him run from you, if you stay in his face, BH won't be able to come out without getting hit. I would only SJ up and do smartbombs if Doom is also in the air but below you so he cannot call BH. A lot of knee-stomp into flight will work if he does not have Cable-AAA. If he does have it, you can still do it but don't be as predictable and use Psylocke when you go into flight to keep you safe. I kind of think you need to put Psylocke last, but that's just me. Can you possibly give me more detail on what your opponent does? ______________________________________ My oppoenent does the usual Doom/BH trap.. his f.FP always gets in my way.. anyway to counter that.. I use a team of Mags/Cable-A/Cyc-A .. too.. Wondering if you can give me tips with that team too! .. thx -Jon Posted by dairy queen guy on 02:27:2001 10:20 AM: hi whats up. i just want to tell you you are a really cool and interesting guy. mostly cause you like Jin. no your site is nice and professional. i hope to fight you at b5. good luck in your fights. Posted by on 02:27:2001 10:38 AM: Can someone tell me how to get the correct positioning for Iron Man's LP, LP, LK, HP infinite? Thanks. Why won't it go up? http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/snk-terry.gif Posted by Dasrik on 02:27:2001 11:36 AM: Jinmaster... what's up... I haven't seen you since like a year ago back when MvC1 was big and you whooped my Hulk with Megaman. Anyhow, here's a bunch of questions, most of them BH-oriented... (1) My current team is BH/Doom/Cyke. I'm training with Cable to switch him for Doom, but I'm still fond of the BH/Doom/Cyke combo. I hear there are other interesting BH styles - BH/Commando and BH/Sentinel being the ones I hear about the most, but I have really seen neither. Both seem interesting, but seem weaker than BH/Cyke in terms of ground coverage, or BH/Doom in terms of chipping. In short, care to give me the lowdown on good assists for BH? (2) As said, I'm trying to learn Cable. In videos, I see the grenade being used a LOT, particularly in the peak of a super jump. I always wondered about this, because the grenade doesn't seem like a particularly powerful move. What's the grenade good for? Forgive my ignorance. (3) My holding pattern against rushdown has tended to be jumpback fierce + Doom assist, and call Cyke if they get too close. This has been successful for me against intermediate Magnetos and most other rushdown-oriented players without great air mobility. While beams neautralize this handily from a distance, up close there doesn't seem to be a lot that can stop this outside of maybe Ken assist. Any weaknesses I'm overlooking? (4) I get differing reports on BH's air roundhouse demons + air dash. Most people say the demons disappear once you airdash, others say they only disappear if you airdash then throw more demons. Who's right? (5) I know that BH v. Cable is way stacked in Cable's favor, but what are BH's viable options in that fight? Just curious questions from someone who doesn't get out all too much. Thanks for answering, and laters :-) Posted by Hoe Muffin on 02:27:2001 11:44 AM: Hey Jinmaster, it's pretty cool that you're taking the time to help scrubs like me get better . I play a O. Red, Strider, Doom team, with O. Red being the battery. I switch him out when the meters full w/ Strider, then switch him back in when drained. I'm not sure which O. Red assist I should use, his alpha or his beta. Any suggestions? Secondly, I have a lot of trouble using O. Red against Sent/Blackheart... I know the matchup is pretty crappy, but could you provide any tips? Posted by Limp_Bizkit666 on 02:27:2001 12:42 PM: hehe, thanks a lot jinmaster.. i actually thought about posting questions at your forum, but since i go online at school more than i do at home, i thought it would be troublesome to go find your website everytime i go to school.. so i thank you for taking your time to the forum to answer our questions... 1) i've read about your testing against BH/Cyc... one of my friends play cable/bh/cyc, and i have a very hard time while playing spiral/cable/sent... it's really hard to load swords when cable rarely jumps, and when he does, it is to follow me up.. he calls assists only when he knows he is safe, and i have a very hard time against this.. when i DO get my swords, however, i have easy time getting rid of cable, but here is my problem... i can't beat bh/cyc. i get inpatient, and try to do things. then i get either infinited by BH, or c.short, c.short+cyclops, inferno, to HOD. he crosses up madly, and i can't ahvb when he jumps around everywhere and is cautious when i'm up with him.. i end up with sentinel a lot, and you wrote that sent can kick bh/cyc's ass with some sort of a snapback thing.. could you elaborate on this please? 2) another team i have trouble with is mag teams. against really good mag, i can't do jack. no time to load swords, no true AAA to cover me, and too much of a cross-up to block everything, all while doing unmashable tempest stuff with psylock stuff... 2.A) what can i do against mag teams, 2.B) is the ground grav-tempest really unescapable? i heard they are, but is it really? the only grav-tempest that i KNOW you can't escape is in the corner... but i have NEVER masheed out of a ground grav-tempest.. heeellpp.. 3) i'm using spiral/cable/sent as mentioned, but i'm hoping to change my team to spiral/sent/bh soon... which do you think has a better chance overall? sent can guard crush as well as cable, and does as much damage to helpers as him... he also is a better chipper than him, and sent really shines with BH... i think i already asked too much for one post. =] thanks a lot byee o(o.o)0 0(o.o)o ------------------ o(o.o)-0(*.0)-o if u dn't gt ths, go fc xr ttrl n pwrhg. Posted by VashTheStampede0 on 02:27:2001 03:54 PM: hey jin, is bison good at anything? i was able to do a small air that ended with a summersault into a phsycocrusher but thats all i can do. Posted by psx2000 on 02:27:2001 05:15 PM: jin i like to add that i liked ur little definition thing on ur web page it was interesting. http://www.peyros.com/tags/PSXtag.gif Posted by on 02:27:2001 06:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by VashTheStampede0: hey jin, is bison good at anything? i was able to do a small air that ended with a summersault into a phsycocrusher but thats all i can do. I'm not Jin, but I'll help out. Bison is REALLLLY good when you learn how to use him, I'm serious, he's got excellent moves, he's strong and takes decent damage. The air combo you mentioned is Bison's bread and butter. His Variety assist is great for starting a rushdown, he's got some great combos and all of his moves are useful. Why won't it go up? http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/snk-terry.gif Posted by Defective on 02:27:2001 08:56 PM: Are there any uses for Mag/Storm's flight ability? Or is it a useless move? Posted by Monkey on 02:27:2001 10:32 PM: No offence or anything, but how many people are going to make a topic about "I'm goin to teach MvC2" Duc did it once, and then everyone else started to do it also, if anyone would make another one, it should be Duc.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 02:27:2001 10:42 PM: This is gonna be long.... ________________________________________ Manny, Viscant answered your post on General Gaming Discussion Forum. _________________________________________ "Jonstar! How would you fight Doom/Cable/BH with my team of IM/psyloke/cable..My oppoenent does the usual Doom/BH trap.. his f.FP always gets in my way.. anyway to counter that.. I use a team of Mags/Cable-A/Cyc-A .. too.. Wondering if you can give me tips with that team too! .. thx" Reply: You can beat most of that just by timing your superjump, I'll show you guys a trick: DON'T BLOCK IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO. If you can crouch under it safely, don't hold defensive crouch becuase it puts you in blockstun and its harder to get out. Some traps are escapable by getting hit or by not blocking. Dash forward and ducak, dash forward and duck, between J.fierce and BH calls, you inch closer and closer, and you can call AAA when you are finally close enough. When you land your Cyke or Psylocke, follow up with IM's infinite or AC and/or Mag's combo. If Doom super jumps, immediately wave dash, but ONLY after he goes up a bit because a quick ff the ground photon super can hit you if you dash too early. Wave dash is: PP, down, PP Hit down after the first part of the dash, the fastest part. Takes timing. Get past doom and SJ up when he whiffs his shocks! ____________________________________________ dairy queen guy, Thanks man, hope to see you there too. I find your posts interesting as well(in a good way). =) _____________________________________________ "Supergeek Can someone tell me how to get the correct positioning for Iron Man's LP, LP, LK, HP infinite? Thanks" Reply: You can do it when: They jump at you You land psylocke assist When you land a J. up+roundhouse on a grounded opponent. You need to be close for sure, the jab,jab is done sort of quickly, there is a time delay between the second jab and the forward-kick, fierce follows right after forward. Does anyone have the link to Warganic's page to help this guy? Thanks in advance o_O _____________________________________________ Dasrik, Hi again. I'll reply in your post, your post is in quotes: "Jinmaster... what's up... I haven't seen you since like a year ago back when MvC1 was big and you whooped my Hulk with Megaman. Anyhow, here's a bunch of questions, most of them BH-oriented..." Reply: Do you still play MvC2 a lot? Heh, I didn't think someone with the exposure you have would want my help, heh. I am honored =) "(1) My current team is BH/Doom/Cyke. I'm training with Cable to switch him for Doom, but I'm still fond of the BH/Doom/Cyke combo. I hear there are other interesting BH styles - BH/Commando and BH/Sentinel being the ones I hear about the most, but I have really seen neither. Both seem interesting, but seem weaker than BH/Cyke in terms of ground coverage, or BH/Doom in terms of chipping. In short, care to give me the lowdown on good assists for BH?" Reply: Of course, Doom and Clops both make excellent choices for BH, but I think putting them all on the same team leaves your team open to a lot of abuse, namely Spiral/Cable abuse. BH does in fact give Spiral a headache, but she can win by being patient. The best version I've seen so far where BH is on point is the BH/Cable/Clops team you mentioned(team AK). If you know how to do that BH/Clops trap, and how to always combo either the roundhouse infnite or the inferno XX HOD off of Cyke, your team should be solid. Mix up your shorts when yo cross them over. Remember, 1 SJ demon, Air d, crossup short short, land mash clops short short, SJ repeat until they screw up and get hit. Then you will have full meter, and you have the option of chipping with BH or getting cable in. I think you should pick Cable AAA becuase if you learn how to alpha counter to him quickly, you can break a lot of traps by cancelling the alpha into AHVB. "(2) As said, I'm trying to learn Cable. In videos, I see the grenade being used a LOT, particularly in the peak of a super jump. I always wondered about this, because the grenade doesn't seem like a particularly powerful move. What's the grenade good for? Forgive my ignorance." Reply: It gives you control of space. Against another cable who is below you, he will have to dash forward where you are going to land, and you will be back to square 1 with a tad more meter, otherwise they block the gernade and you get to land, call clops if you feel lucky, and SJ up immediately and do another. It's not a trap, but its a way to control space, and if they happen to get hit, AHVB them asap before they shake out. It's also a safe move vs Cable becuase you can SJ up and do it, and if the other Cable was trying to get up there and blast you while you are trying to throw it, you can cancel your gernade into AHVB as a counter to a counter tactic. "(3) My holding pattern against rushdown has tended to be jumpback fierce + Doom assist, and call Cyke if they get too close. This has been successful for me against intermediate Magnetos and most other rushdown-oriented players without great air mobility. While beams neautralize this handily from a distance, up close there doesn't seem to be a lot that can stop this outside of maybe Ken assist. Any weaknesses I'm overlooking?" Reply: Are you talking about Cable on point or BH? Anyhow, a lot of it depends on how the Mag player attacks you. Is he triangle jumping hella fast, or does he sj up a bit more but air dashes down to cross over? Does he use Psylocke or Clops? I'll give a better answer when I get a better idea of what this Mag is doing. If it's Duc's, he probably does it all, so just keep playing him. =) "(4) I get differing reports on BH's air roundhouse demons + air dash. Most people say the demons disappear once you airdash, others say they only disappear if you airdash then throw more demons. Who's right?" Reply: They come out and do not go away until you do a move that creates more demons. You can SJ up and roundhouse, air dash and throw jabs, and they will still hit a person on the ground. "(5) I know that BH v. Cable is way stacked in Cable's favor, but what are BH's viable options in that fight?" Reply: He needs a helper, but the goal is to stay on Cable from SJ height while not being so predictable so as to be caught by a SJ AHVB. I suggest that depending on the helpers involved...I like specific situations when I comment on stuff...you could back Cable into a corner and use your helper while coming at him with J.fierce, when they block the helper, do an inferno CC HOD ONLY if cable is in the corner and make sure you cancel quickly becuase he can AHVB you do not. When the HOD ends, you are in the air, mash your assist, hopefully its doom, and air dash forward and hit short, short. This is all done in the air after the HOD which put you in the air to begin with. When doom is ending, jump forward and feirce demons if you have no meter, otherwise start over. Like I said, I need to know what helpers are involved. If cable as a weak or no AAA, the fight is better for BH. "Just curious questions from someone who doesn't get out all too much. Thanks for answering, and laters :-)" No problem, keep inventing stuff man, Hulk/GWM owns. =) _____________________________________________ "Hoe Muffin Hey Jinmaster, it's pretty cool that you're taking the time to help scrubs like me get better . I play a O. Red, Strider, Doom team, with O. Red being the battery. I switch him out when the meters full w/ Strider, then switch him back in when drained. I'm not sure which O. Red assist I should use, his alpha or his beta. Any suggestions? Secondly, I have a lot of trouble using O. Red against Sent/Blackheart... I know the matchup is pretty crappy, but could you provide any tips?" Reply: Glad I can help. I think his anti-air assist is best, and his throw assist is ok. Against sentinel, I'd go with AAA since it will be useful when he gets in your face. That's a bad match, but you can somewhat take control by offensive crouch, short-strike, retract. Thats hard though. You could try to rushdown, use a lot of up+Forward strikes down cancelled into short or land C.short into launch. I think you need to have strider playing against Sent/BH becuase OR doesn't offer too much. Although he is a good charcter, I don't think he fits with the Strider/Doom team. I'd say sub spiral or use doom for the battery. If you really want to use OR, maybe put him with Sent/BH or on an anti-strider team. _____________________________________________ "Limp, hehe, thanks a lot jinmaster.. i actually thought about posting questions at your forum, but since i go online at school more than i do at home, i thought it would be troublesome to go find your website everytime i go to school..so i thank you for taking your time to the forum to answer our questions..." Reply: Anytime. Your post is in quotes. "1) i've read about your testing against BH/Cyc... one of my friends play cable/bh/cyc, and i have a very hard time while playing spiral/cable/sent... it's really hard to load swords when cable rarely jumps, and when he does, it is to follow me up.. he calls assists only when he knows he is safe, and i have a very hard time against this.." Reply: You have to be tricky, call Sentinel assist and teleport, or SJ up, do a quick-drop while mashing sentinel or Cable-AAA and cancel the quick drop into knives or to a teleport. You WILL find a way to call knives. "when i DO get my swords, however, i have easy time getting rid of cable, but here is my problem... i can't beat bh/cyc. i get inpatient, and try to do things. then i get either infinited by BH, or c.short, c.short+cyclops, inferno, to HOD. he crosses up madly, and i can't ahvb when he jumps around everywhere and is cautious when i'm up with him.." It is hard for Sprial, but like you said, you have to be patient. It's a fight to get knives, and It's a fight to throw them, once you get them going the fight gets better. Push block a lot, teleport when necessary, SJ up and fierce sometimes to stop BH or dhas forward and call Cable-AAA and teleport. It takes practice, but once you play the fight over and over, it gets better. I lost the first 4 matches or so when fighting it with SPiral/Cable/Sent, but once I got the hang of it I stopped losing. "i end up with sentinel a lot, and you wrote that sent can kick bh/cyc's ass with some sort of a snapback thing..ould you elaborate on this please?" Reply: Actaully Viscant said that. The thing about this is that Sent can just stand still and eat a whole SJ roundhouse demon and not lose his super-armor. So you time a snapback to rape BH when he comes down with short. Its not going to work all the time, its just an option you have. "2) another team i have trouble with is mag teams. against really good mag, i can't do jack. no time to load swords, no true AAA to cover me, and too much of a cross-up to block everything, all while doing unmashable tempest stuff with psylock stuff..." Reply: With Spiral? You can use Cable-AAA effectively enough to call knives, but I think one of they keys to the fight is using fierces correctly. Sometimes you dash back and hit fierce, and Mag will go right into it. J.fierce a lot, teleport out of it when you are in trouble. Once he blocks an assist, you call knives, and its basic trapping from there...sort of. Circle knife is your friend. Abuse it. Also, learn how to snapback. You have no idea how good snapping is in this game, snap in Psylocke or Storm, and Spiral will have a good time. I feel this is a decent fight for Mag/storm though, so there are no easy answers. ".B) is the ground grav-tempest really unescapable? i heard they are, but is it really? the only grav-tempest that i KNOW you can't escape is in the corner... but i have NEVER masheed out of a ground grav-tempest.." Reply: Hm, I haven't tested it, but my experience tells me that you can't mash it becuase you are not ready for it. I mean, who expects a straight ground grav-tempest? You can block it most of the time, unless its some funky ground combo I didn't know people were using. Otherwise, you can mash out of hyper-gravs as long as you know they are coming. With good mag's its hard to tell. Either way, if you do learn to mash it, its ot going to save you. He will just take you up for a long air combo or a throw option AC or a semi-infinite or something once you learn how to mash better. My adivce is to not get hit. =P "3) i'm using spiral/cable/sent as mentioned, but i'm hoping to change my team to spiral/sent/bh soon... which do you think has a better chance overall?" Reply: They are both good teams, and they both have a place. I'm not at the all-knowing level where I can definately say that one team is 100% for sure better/more versatile. My opinion is that Spiral/Cable/Sentinel is the better team from an overall standpoint, but Spiral/Sent/BH gives it more trouble than one would expect. I'm sure some opinions will differ here. I might be wrong. =( "sent can guard crush as well as cable, and does as much damage to helpers as him... he also is a better chipper than him, and sent really shines with BH... i think i already asked too much for one post. =] thanks a lot byee" Yea, no problem. Just remember that Setinel helper kills are kind of sporadic. You don't always get to juggle the way you want to. AHVB is more effecient, and Cable still beats Sentinel(not a raping, but Cable has an advantage). _____________________________________________ VashTheStampede0, "hey jin, is bison good at anything? i was able to do a small air that ended with a summersault into a phsycocrusher but thats all i can do." Reply: Unfortunately I don't play bison, but I'll tell you one thing, he is good vs Spiral. Psycho-Crusher goes through knives(to kill helpers), the ball of blue flame is good too. His comos are strong, he can head stomp starting on a SJ arc... Other than that I can't comment. Hope that was somewhat helpful.. ___________________________________________ "PSX2000 jin i like to add that i liked ur little definition thing on ur web page it was interesting." Reply: Thanks, I never did get to finish it. Too busy these days, plus some of my opinions may have changed! =( ___________________________________________ "Defective, Are there any uses for Mag/Storm's flight ability? Or is it a useless move?" Haha, I wondered if anyone would ask this. Mag has yet other options when fighting Megaman and other good characters, he can cancel anything into flight(dont do hyper-grav on accident), and call a helper and infnitely air dash around, or just rain downward projectiles while calling helpers. Storm can do the same but she is slower. Remeber that after a SJ air dash and 3x lightning attack, you can still fly whenever you want, and call helpers. Yes, flying is good, but ONLY in moderation. Predictable flyers get killed quickly. _____________________________________________ "Monkey, No offence or anything, but how many people are going to make a topic about "I'm goin to teach MvC2" Duc did it once, and then everyone else started to do it also, if anyone would make another one, it should be Duc.." #1 Duc is too busy to post enough right now #2 There are other people who are qualified to help out #3 I feel I am one of them #4 Not everyone should, but anyone who wants to help out should not be intimidated by the best players posts. I'm doing this becsue I feel I have more to contribute to this community and I have the time to make longer responses than some others. If you think you know any game pretty well, start your own thread. I fully support sharing infomation. I certainly don't think I need to be the best player in Cali to teach MvC2. And for your last comment, maybe I should just not help out and let Ricky handle it? He placed above Duc in 2 out of 3 tournies.... If people keep asking me questions, I will continue to answer to the best of my ability. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-27-2001).] Posted by Monkey on 02:27:2001 11:08 PM: quote: #1 Duc is too busy to post enough right now #2 There are other people who are qualified to help out #3 I feel I am one of them #4 Not everyone should, but anyone who wants to help out should not be intimidated by the best players posts. I'm doing this becsue I feel I have more to contribute to this community and I have the time to make longer responses than some others. If you think you know any game pretty well, start your own thread. I fully support sharing infomation. I certainly don't think I need to be the best player in Cali to teach MvC2. And for your last comment, maybe I should just not help out and let Ricky handle it? He placed above Duc in 2 out of 3 tournies.... Just because Ricky beat Duc in 2 out of 3 tournies doesnt mean that he is better than Duc overall.. He does have skills, and I'm not doubting his ability to play the game..I'm just saying that because you beat someone 2 times in tourney play, doesnt mean that your better than another...However if he continues to do so, then he will be better... I was not doubting your ability to teach the game, I was just wondering why everyone was making these threads now, and you answered my question, and keep on teaching.. Maybe I should make a thread of the teaching of Magneto.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:28:2001 12:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey: Just because Ricky beat Duc in 2 out of 3 tournies doesnt mean that he is better than Duc overall.. He does have skills, and I'm not doubting his ability to play the game..I'm just saying that because you beat someone 2 times in tourney play, doesnt mean that your better than another...However if he continues to do so, then he will be better... I was not doubting your ability to teach the game, I was just wondering why everyone was making these threads now, and you answered my question, and keep on teaching.. Maybe I should make a thread of the teaching of Magneto.. So, just because Ricky won twice, means nothing, unless he keeps doing it. Am I reading that correctly? What's the magic number for him being as good, or better? Five wins? Ten? That doesn't make sense. And they're all good players. A win means you were better that day. Jinmaster is ranked, what, sixth? I think he can make this thread. Hell, anyone can, if they know what they're talking about. What irritated me was when a bunch of people made "I teach MvC2!" threads, when Duc's was still active. The first time it was mildy funny. Every time thereafter it was irritating and disrespectful. But this isn't one of those threads. He's actually here to help. And we have 3pwood's Mags FAQ to help us with him. So. All that said, I do have a question, for Jin... How often would you say high level players actually do mash out of Hyper Tempests? I ask because I'm one of maybe three Magnetos in my city, and don't ever play the others, and on the few occasions I do, I usually beat them handily. Whenever I venture north, where the competition is fiercer, no one mashes out, or if they try, they don't do it. No one mashed out of my stuff at the last Houston tourney. No one mashed out anytime before that, either. Hell, until I saw a recent match video, I didn't even know what it looked like. So, how often do people actually escape? Let us say, for some reason, I'm playing you, and I manage to launch you, and I've got four meters...against you, am I going to be able to do a damn thing? Because against most everyone I've played, that's a 150 hit combo. Just curious. [This message has been edited by Dr. Deelite (edited 02-27-2001).] Posted by MarkyMark on 02:28:2001 01:00 AM: I usually play Strider/Doom/Blackheart, and my Strider generally does rather well. When I get to Doom and Blackheart, however, I end up losing fights I should've one, especially to Magneto and Storm. Obviously, they're bad matches for the two, but do you have any suggestions for facing Magneto/Storm/AAA (Cyclops, most often) with Doom and Blackheart? Also, are repeated j.HPs with Doom (the EC finger) safe against AHVB? I don't get to the arcade more than once or twice a month, so much of these little nuanced bits of the game are missing in my library of knowledge. One more question. At home I've been playing Strider/Spiral/Sentinel, and it's proving to actually be a solid team. While Strider/Doom is obviously lost, Sentinel and Strider teleports create a lot of mess. My question is this: Is this difficult to handle for most players in the arcade? And the same goes for Strider/Blackheart AAA. If you back the guy up with Strider using animals or whatever you will (Orbs, even) then call BH, BH steps in front of Strider, hiding him. Then the Inferno comes up under the opponent. If you teleport so that Inferno consumes Strider as well, is this relatively difficult to guard against? Thanks. http://www.geocities.com/societypropriety/gg_kystance.gif Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com www.Fandom.com/Videogamers Posted by Voodoo on 02:28:2001 01:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite: So, how often do people actually escape? Let us say, for some reason, I'm playing you, and I manage to launch you, and I've got four meters...against you, am I going to be able to do a damn thing? Because against most everyone I've played, that's a 150 hit combo. I am by no means a high level player (faaaar from it) but I personally can mash out of say, one in a dozen tempest combos. Once, I had two in the same match lol. I suppose high level players don't do it is because it's just not worth the effort. You could mash trying to get out, and *maybe* you might do it (I don't see a set pattern of doing it, seems almost random) - so they just save their strength, and avoid it. ~v00 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right. Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 01:18 AM: Monkey, I think that if one places higher than a person in a given tournament on a greater number of occasions than the next guy, then the one in question is considered better. Duc is a human being. People think he is unbeatable or a god or something. I think Duc is a cool guy, and he will tell you himself that he isn't perfect and he might even tell you that he's not the undisputed best. Tournamet results wise, the only argument one can make is that Duc placed higher than Ricky at B4, so its 2-2 if you look back that far...but then if we look back that far, Image is ranked #4 for no reason other than B4. So I'm counting the times Ricky/Duc/Valle have all been in the same tournament post B4, and that has Ricky at 2-1. _____________________________________________ "Dr. Deelite, How often would you say high level players actually do mash out of Hyper Tempests? I ask because I'm one of maybe three Magnetos in my city, and don't ever play the others, and on the few occasions I do, I usually beat them handily. Whenever I venture north, where the competition is fiercer, no one mashes out, or if they try, they don't do it. No one mashed out of my stuff at the last Houston tourney. No one mashed out anytime before that, either. Hell, until I saw a recent match video, I didn't even know what it looked like. So, how often do people actually escape? Let us say, for some reason, I'm playing you, and I manage to launch you, and I've got four meters...against you, am I going to be able to do a damn thing? Because against most everyone I've played, that's a 150 hit combo. Just curious." Reply: Not as much as one would think. I know a lot of east coast players mash out like 80% or so, since so many people play Magneto though. The hard part about masing out is trying to start your mash when the hyper-grav actually comes out, meaning Magneto can grav you at like 3-4 points in an air-dash combo. Yes, some players Like Ricky and a lot of players on the East Coast are expert mashers. I assume Duc/Valle can do it well but on Folsom sticks I'm not as sure. Again, the trick is to really lay into the side-to-side motion with the stick and rake the buttons quickly and to time it correctly. _____________________________________________ "Marky, I usually play Strider/Doom/Blackheart, and my Strider generally does rather well. When I get to Doom and Blackheart, however, I end up losing fights I should've one, especially to Magneto and Storm. Obviously, they're bad matches for the two, but do you have any suggestions for facing Magneto/Storm/AAA (Cyclops, most often) with Doom and Blackheart?" Reply: You are definately at a disadvantage without a decent AAA. Wether you have doom or BH on point is going to dictate what you are going to try to do. Generally speaking, you have no way to get Mag off of you, especially as BH, I suggest you choose between rushdown past Cyke, running away, or going for a snap-back. Try to pay attnetion to how much of an impact strider had on their team. Damaging Cyclops assist or Storm assist is an option. Can you tell me if your Strider usually kills anyone on that team before you lose Strider? "Also, are repeated j.HPs with Doom (the EC finger) safe against AHVB? I don't get to the arcade more than once or twice a month, so much of these little nuanced bits of the game are missing in my library of knowledge." Reply: Absolutely, but its impractical unless you know its coming. Look for a normal jump and go for it, but you can't just wait to see the gun and decide to do it. The best time to do it is when he is doing it over and over and you just know its coming again. So yes, AHVB away, but do it right off the ground. =) "One more question. At home I've been playing Strider/Spiral/Sentinel, and it's proving to actually be a solid team. While Strider/Doom is obviously lost, Sentinel and Strider teleports create a lot of mess. My question is this: Is this difficult to handle for most players in the arcade?" Reply: It depends on two things: #1 How good you are with Strider. #2 How intelligently they utilize their AAA. If they have a strong AAA, you are going to have problems without Doom becuase Sentinel won't put them in stun for the same length of time(so they can call helpers). Setinel is a good assist for Strider, don't get me wrong, but a lot of it depends on how well you can trap and how little you do the wrong moves. "And the same goes for Strider/Blackheart AAA. If you back the guy up with Strider using animals or whatever you will (Orbs, even) then call BH, BH steps in front of Strider, hiding him. Then the Inferno comes up under the opponent. If you teleport so that Inferno consumes Strider as well, is this relatively difficult to guard against?" Reply: Of course it depends on their team and their skill.. but generally that should work. Keep in mind that there is a window somwhere in the inferno that they can call a helper. I'm curious, what is the exact team? Strider-B/BH-B/who's AAA? I'm a bit pessemistic about it, as it seems kind of one-dimensional. Ask yourself if your team fares better than Strider/Doom/Commando. -Micah Posted by MarkyMark on 02:28:2001 01:31 AM: My Strider generally kills the first character, and then a third to half the next, usually causing no damage to their AAA (perhaps this is where I should focus more - killing Cyclops). I would consider my Strider pretty good. At that last big Folsom tourney (the 17) I got a few complements on my Strider... Doom and BH were exhausted by the Mags and Storms, though. I teleport a lot (which I realize could get hurt by CapCom AAA - never met it, though) with Doom's rocks floating around until I can safely and effectively initiate the trap. And when I implement that Strider/Blackheart bit, hiding behind Blackheart and Inferno, I've generally got Doom-B as well, and I'm just building meter for Strider. http://www.geocities.com/societypropriety/gg_kystance.gif Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com www.Fandom.com/Videogamers Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 01:45 AM: Marky, That changes everything. So Mag is dead and Storm is about half dead. Ok, you should be able to win just by turtling and running away. I know it's not the most interesing strategy, but the top SHGL players seem to have adopted the following policy: When you get a favorable gap in life totals, run-away and turtle and ONLY ATTACK WHEN IT'S A SURE THING. That means you only do what is safe, and you run and turtle like a scared bitch until you see a mistake, and then you hit HARD, and fade away. Ok, that was basic as hell. But it holds true. If you have a fat lead, run. Call BH and superjump away, but don't let bh get hit by typhoon-Hail. Use air-dashing to facilitate running. Lastly, don't call BH too much. If he gets hailed even once, it only takes one triangle-jump from storm to snap him in and even the game. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-27-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 01:47 AM: Marky, That changes everything. So Mag is dead and Storm is about half dead. Ok, you should be able to win just by turtling and running away. I know it's not the most interesing strategy, but the top SHGL players seem to have adopted the following policy: When you get a favorable gap in life totals, run-away and turtle and ONLY ATTACK WHEN IT'S A SURE THING. That means you only do what is safe, and you run and turtle like a scared bitch until you see a mistake, and then you hit HARD, and fadde away. Ok, that was basic as hell. But it holds true. If you have a fat lead, run. Call BH and superjump away, but don't let bh get hit by typhoon-Hail. Use air-dashing to facilitate running. Lastly, don't call BH too much. If he gets hailed even once, it only takes on triangle-jump from storm to snap him in and even the game. -Micah Posted by MarkyMark on 02:28:2001 01:50 AM: Slick. I'll practice that... and possibly become the bane of Folsom Gameroom . One quick note. During the tournament one of my opponents used the Mag/Storm/Cyke team, and as Strider was beating Mags, he DHCed to Storm, and then Strider dealt much to Storm then died. So Mags back to about 1/3 life and Storm has 1/3 to 1/2. Does this change things since Magneto's rush is so much more potent? http://www.geocities.com/societypropriety/gg_kystance.gif Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com www.Fandom.com/Videogamers Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 02:02 AM: "One quick note. During the tournament one of my opponents used the Mag/Storm/Cyke team, and as Strider was beating Mags, he DHCed to Storm, and then Strider dealt much to Storm then died. So Mags back to about 1/3 life and Storm has 1/3 to 1/2. Does this change things since Magneto's rush is so much more potent?" Unfortuantely yes, the more characters that are alive, the higher the damage potential. I suggest that since Storm killed strider, don't let him switch Mag in for free. Depending on how Strider died, there my be nothing you can do. My advice is to still run. There should be enough time in the game for him to catch up, and you may have to go for chip damage to finish off one of his characters. Since Storm is hurt, see if you can punish her assist. A good way to do this is to do the half-cirle-back with punch super, and DHC to a HOD if Mag is near Storm. Otherwise, Storm should be really hurt. Don't do this super unless mag is back far enough to not dash at you and get you. Your SAFEST option is to wait for Storm assist, and SJ up and so a super photon array ASAP. She should die and you can always DHC to BH in some fashion that leaves you safe. The closer you are to time running out, the ore hard-pressed they will be to catch you. They will make mistakes, and thats when you seal the game with Doom's C.jab into launcher becuase you were turtling for so long. Watch out for cyke though.... -Micah Posted by StarFire on 02:28:2001 02:30 AM: Hey thanks a bunch for that help. Okay now for some more questions: My main team is Spiral-a, Storm-a, and Cable-b. I also think it's a really good team since Spiral can battery and then I can switch in Cable. Then I can do Cable's thing and when I land a good AHVB I can DHC into Storm for massive damage. I can even get some clean Cable guard breaks into Storm DHC also. Then I usually play runaway Storm or what's necessary. I'm even pretty good at getting a hailstorm from Cable's assist. What I really need to round out my game is learning how to mash. Like what buttons should I mash for the Spiral's throw. Also everytime I try to mash during Cable's AHVB I either lose em by them popping out or miss my 2nd or 3rd one. See right now I basically mash all six buttons right now but I heard that it may be better just to mash a couple. And I also see people mash Storm's hailstorm and lightning super for more damage. What buttons should I mash? I'm also having a hard time doing an alpha counter into super like you told me too. Do I have to cancel right away into the super or can I wait to see if it would connect cause I hate wasting supers. Also what teams should I avoid playing against with this team that would give it a hard time? I havent really play-tested this team against good competition yet so that would help me. And also what advantages does Spiral/Cable/Sentinal have over this team since it's used a lot more. Hey thanx again for helping me so much. Posted by Dasrik on 02:28:2001 02:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Do you still play MvC2 a lot? Heh, I didn't think someone with the exposure you have would want my help, heh. I am honored =) I only go to SHGL occasionally, even less now since I'm trying to get over the flu, it's raining like hell, and my brother is having job problems. quote: Of course, Doom and Clops both make excellent choices for BH, but I think putting them all on the same team leaves your team open to a lot of abuse, namely Spiral/Cable abuse. BH does in fact give Spiral a headache, but she can win by being patient. I usually deal with Spirals by trying to sucker her into wall of swords so I can bring in Doom safely (who I feel better vs. Spiral with); Cable is rougher because I rarely get opportunities to bring in Doom, and usually have to resort to baiting Cable to throw away his meter on the helpers. It's super risky, but if I'm confident and not stupid, I can do it. My biggest problem is vs. Storm. Storm just seems to put the smack down on this team. quote: The best version I've seen so far where BH is on point is the BH/Cable/Clops team you mentioned(team AK). If you know how to do that BH/Clops trap, and how to always combo either the roundhouse infnite or the inferno XX HOD off of Cyke, your team should be solid. Mix up your shorts when yo cross them over. Remember, 1 SJ demon, Air d, crossup short short, land mash clops short short, SJ repeat until they screw up and get hit. Then you will have full meter, and you have the option of chipping with BH or getting cable in. Landing the infinite has always been a little rough for me. I usually toss demons, airdash back, and toss them again, and this works sometimes but not always. The angle is weird for me. Any suggestions? quote: I think you should pick Cable AAA becuase if you learn how to alpha counter to him quickly, you can break a lot of traps by cancelling the alpha into AHVB. Can Cyclops do the same with Gene Splice XX MOB? Or is it not as effective? quote: [The grenade is] also a safe move vs Cable becuase you can SJ up and do it, and if the other Cable was trying to get up there and blast you while you are trying to throw it, you can cancel your gernade into AHVB as a counter to a counter tactic. I'm a little wary of doing non-follow-upable AHVBs; being an anti-Cable, I tend to bait players into burning off their meter so it's safer for me to attack them. When I play with Cable, I want to have AHVBx3 option still hanging out there most of the time... but that just may be me. quote: Are you talking about Cable on point or BH? Anyhow, a lot of it depends on how the Mag player attacks you. Is he triangle jumping hella fast, or does he sj up a bit more but air dashes down to cross over? Does he use Psylocke or Clops? I'll give a better answer when I get a better idea of what this Mag is doing. If it's Duc's, he probably does it all, so just keep playing him. =) This is BH on point. Jump back fierce demons plus Doom assist I guess it could theoretically work with Cable too, but it doesn't seem quite as effective vs. rushdown. Mags can get around this with super jumps but triangle jumping is a bit trickier. If they superjump to escape, Inferno xx HOD to bring them down & chip. quote: He needs a helper, but the goal is to stay on Cable from SJ height while not being so predictable so as to be caught by a SJ AHVB. That's a goal of mine. quote: I suggest that depending on the helpers involved...I like specific situations when I comment on stuff...you could back Cable into a corner and use your helper while coming at him with J.fierce, when they block the helper, do an inferno CC HOD ONLY if cable is in the corner and make sure you cancel quickly becuase he can AHVB you do not. Those are good situations to be in, and ones that I can get adequately often. I usually avoid HODs on Cable unless: (1) He has no meter, or only one (and my lead is subtantial enough); or (2) He's in the corner and on the ground. I also try to bait Cable a lot... quote: Like I said, I need to know what helpers are involved. If cable as a weak or no AAA, the fight is better for BH. Speaking of which, any suggestions regarding the Cable/Y-Storm trap? I can get out of that with a little thought, but it's a pain in the ass and I'm wondering if there's an easier way. quote: No problem, keep inventing stuff man, Hulk/GWM owns. =) Morrigan/BH domination. LOL Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 03:00 AM: Starfire, "Hey thanks a bunch for that help." No problem guy. "Okay now for some more questions: My main team is Spiral-a, Storm-a, and Cable-b. I also think it's a really good team since Spiral can battery and then I can switch in Cable. Then I can do Cable's thing and when I land a good AHVB I can DHC into Storm for massive damage. I can even get some clean Cable guard breaks into Storm DHC also. Then I usually play runaway Storm or what's necessary. I'm even pretty good at getting a hailstorm from Cable's assist. What I really need to round out my game is learning how to mash. Like what buttons should I mash for the Spiral's throw. Also everytime I try to mash during Cable's AHVB I either lose em by them popping out or miss my 2nd or 3rd one. See right now I basically mash all six buttons right now but I heard that it may be better just to mash a couple. And I also see people mash Storm's hailstorm and lightning super for more damage. What buttons should I mash?" Reply: Good question, I already answered how to mash Cable's AHVB I think on the first page of this thread. Mash the top three buttons only. Kicks do nothing. Hold up and the stick during it. For Storm, she does between 36 and 49 damage from full screen with a straight Hailstorm on Cable. It appears that through testing, all inputs affect the damage. Mash all the buttons, and the stick, but try not to accidently do a DHC =) I got around 60 points of damage in the same situation this way. "I'm also having a hard time doing an alpha counter into super like you told me too. Do I have to cancel right away into the super or can I wait to see if it would connect cause I hate wasting supers." Well, if you AHVB when Cable's assist is AAA, use the assist button that belongs to him and time the AHVB for mid screen. It's a fierce scimitar. If you cancel into AHVB too fast you will be on the ground, if you do it too high, you will not hit anything. Just practice it. "Also what teams should I avoid playing against with this team that would give it a hard time? I havent really play-tested this team against good competition yet so that would help me. And also what advantages does Spiral/Cable/Sentinal have over this team since it's used a lot more. Hey thanx again for helping me so much." Any team that can rush you down cuase of your lack of AAA comes to mind. I like your team, however I think it may have some problems with Strider and Magneto teams that have mentioned in this thread. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 03:02 AM: Just wanted to say "you're welcome" to everyone who said thanks. Keep it coming. Posted by logan's son on 02:28:2001 03:38 AM: this is the team i use CYC(AAA)CAPCOM(AAA) AND DOOM(aaa) ! I really like this team , they can chip cyc and doom, i hvae this mini trap with capcom and doom which chips alot of life , what i do have them in the corner and call doom out while he traps them in the cornor i call sho the ninja and i jeep doing it until doom leaves then when they jump i call jetty to stun them but after that i can't get them back cuz doom takes some time 2 back.well my q is look at this team at it's best and determine if i should take x person for a onther person. i won't take cap out by the way he is 2 cool! TO BE CHEAP OR NOT TO BE CHEAP THAT IS THE QUESTION? -CABLE Posted by Monkey on 02:28:2001 03:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite: So, just because Ricky won twice, means nothing, unless he keeps doing it. Am I reading that correctly? What's the magic number for him being as good, or better? Five wins? Ten? That doesn't make sense. What I ment was, just because he won two times, doenst mean that he is a better player than Duc. There is no magic number for him to be good, I know that he is good, just I wouldnt go as far as "better than Duc". (Hope that clears it up.. ) quote: And they're all good players. A win means you were better that day. Jinmaster is ranked, what, sixth? I think he can make this thread. Hell, anyone can, if they know what they're talking about. I did not know that Jinmaster is ranked 6th, and I apoligize to anything I might have said. What I thought was, this is some other random guy posting I'm goin to teach MvC2, If I would have known that he was 6th, I wouldnt of said shit.. so again, sorry. quote: What irritated me was when a bunch of people made "I teach MvC2!" threads, when Duc's was still active. The first time it was mildy funny. Every time thereafter it was irritating and disrespectful. I also believed that was irritating too. quote: But this isn't one of those threads. He's actually here to help. And we have 3pwood's Mags FAQ to help us with him. So. All that said, I do have a question, for Jin... How often would you say high level players actually do mash out of Hyper Tempests? I ask because I'm one of maybe three Magnetos in my city, and don't ever play the others, and on the few occasions I do, I usually beat them handily. Whenever I venture north, where the competition is fiercer, no one mashes out, or if they try, they don't do it. No one mashed out of my stuff at the last Houston tourney. No one mashed out anytime before that, either. Hell, until I saw a recent match video, I didn't even know what it looked like. So, how often do people actually escape? Let us say, for some reason, I'm playing you, and I manage to launch you, and I've got four meters...against you, am I going to be able to do a damn thing? Because against most everyone I've played, that's a 150 hit combo. Just curious. [This message has been edited by Dr. Deelite (edited 02-27-2001).] Look up -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by Monkey on 02:28:2001 04:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Monkey, I think that if one places higher than a person in a given tournament on a greater number of occasions than the next guy, then the one in question is considered better. Duc is a human being. People think he is unbeatable or a god or something. I think Duc is a cool guy, and he will tell you himself that he isn't perfect and he might even tell you that he's not the undisputed best. Tournamet results wise, the only argument one can make is that Duc placed higher than Ricky at B4, so its 2-2 if you look back that far...but then if we look back that far, Image is ranked #4 for no reason other than B4. So I'm counting the times Ricky/Duc/Valle have all been in the same tournament post B4, and that has Ricky at 2-1. True. Duc has told me that he isnt the best, and he makes mistakes, all that. People tend to see past that and just look at his skills, and think, . o O ( damn hes good, hes unstoppable.. ) which is not true, as we can see. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by Monkey on 02:28:2001 04:03 AM: Once again, I apoligize, but anyway.. Who do you regularly use in tourney play? And what tips would you give to a guy attending a tourney this weekend (MvC2 mainly.. ) -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by ~Wind on 02:28:2001 05:13 AM: I've been doing a lot of thinking and I still can't figure this out. Which is better: cable teams or doom teams? (overall effectiveness/ineffectiveness) Posted by Limp_Bizkit666 on 02:28:2001 06:34 AM: thanks for the answers.. anyways, some more questions. =] let say you are sent, and you are juggling the assist... i heard that you should time it so that it DOESN"T combo, so that the assist recieves full damage without damage reduction from comboing.. so, 1) do you slow down the mouthlaser, the rocket punch, or the super??? i guess you slow down on the rocket punch??? 2) if you do slow down to kill the assist, can cable AHVB because of the timing? 3) i'm starting to use snapback a lot.. i think it's really cool and a great way to show off your skills.. if you are cable, and you had the opponent in a short, short combo, would you rather AHVB that player or snapback? i'm sure it depends on the character that i'm snapbacking into, but suppose both had similar life, and i couldn't kill with ONE ahvb anyways.... because i assume the answer is still "depends", then WHO would you snap back into? from the majority of the teams available, who is the more likely suspect of being snapped into the game? 4) i am finally starting to throw... can you give me all the information about throwing? like range, special properties, and such? i can throw and even tick throw on the ground, but when i'm in the air, i'm soooo blank.. the only time i can throw in the air is if i'm airdashing to the person, and NOT during a combo.. it's kinda frustrating.. help? thanks a lot for yourhelp.. bye o(o.o)0 0(o.o)o ------------------ o(o.o)-0(*.0)-o if u dn't gt ths, go fc xr ttrl n pwrhg. Posted by dragonfist on 02:28:2001 10:24 AM: Ok i got a q? How do you break Spirals Sword trap? And how to avoid and or Breal Strider/Doom traps? Posted by Renagade on 02:28:2001 10:42 AM: Good posts, Jinmaster. I think Jin rocks too. Especially in his FP color (the red). Quick question on him... what are his bread and butter super cancels? Because... the crouching MP isn't so great a link into blodia punch anymore, someway in the arcade I miss the launch->Saotome Cyclone more often than I'd like to see. Especially after jump ins (since most of his openings are creating during Jump D+HK). I like the sweep->punch, but i think it can be rolled. Also, As I got really into MVC2 the second time (meaning competitively in the arcades and such, as opposed to import Japanese over the summer on DC), I started to use Magneto. I saw the Hyper Grav->Tempest (something I never thought to do on the DC) and went from there. I picked up Storm when she was unlocked recently (we just got a new machine, it's level 19), and went with her. My addition of Psylocke was a random AAA pick, and to my surprise I found out that this was a popular dominating rush team. Now, for my question. I use Alpha assists for all 3. What are some of the most lethal strats that these 3 can do? I'll explain what I do.. -Either launch outright with Mag, or Hit psylocke AAA and launch into tempest XX hailstorm. Trying to get that combo is what I do, helped by storm to dash across. -Storm I mix up, either SJ-LA attack away and coming down with Typhoon or FP, or Hitting Psy's AAA, into Lightning AC, along with her FP pokes. -Psy I try to launch into Kochou Gakure, with Storm Assist to help her get in. I also keep close and use LK Psi blades repeatly to bait/hit them. Countering her into a Kachou Gakure is something I just got the knack of I'm the best player at my arcade 9 days out of 10, and I know I need to get better when that 10 th day a tourney winner whups my ass. What else can I do? Strider doom isn't too bad to fight, But Cable gives me fits (i get nailed by AHVB WAY too much to my assists and guard breaks) , how do I beat him (let's assume it's Cable/Cyke, Random other person) Thanks in advance I'll kill you... Kill you alot! Posted by hyt on 02:28:2001 10:44 AM: Quick q... prob been answered b4 but I was hoping you could outline the strengths of Spiral/Cable/Sentinel.... I want to hear your opinions on it... thanks a lot! Posted by DrewSpiegel on 02:28:2001 11:09 AM: Hey Jinmaster, i would like to ask you about the Magneto airdash combo in which magneto is hiting the first three shots slow and then work up using the airdash. Could you help a brotha out please? Thanks in advance! Posted by hyt on 02:28:2001 11:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by hyt: Quick q... prob been answered b4 but I was hoping you could outline the strengths of Spiral/Cable/Sentinel.... I want to hear your opinions on it... thanks a lot! Whoops, I also would like you to give the weaknesses of that team as well. I checked out your page. Really awesome stuff! Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:28:2001 12:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by Renagade: Good posts, Jinmaster. I think Jin rocks too. Especially in his FP color (the red). Quick question on him... what are his bread and butter super cancels? Because... the crouching MP isn't so great a link into blodia punch anymore, someway in the arcade I miss the launch->Saotome Cyclone more often than I'd like to see. Especially after jump ins (since most of his openings are creating during Jump D+HK). I like the sweep->punch, but i think it can be rolled. Also, As I got really into MVC2 the second time (meaning competitively in the arcades and such, as opposed to import Japanese over the summer on DC), I started to use Magneto. I saw the Hyper Grav->Tempest (something I never thought to do on the DC) and went from there. I picked up Storm when she was unlocked recently (we just got a new machine, it's level 19), and went with her. My addition of Psylocke was a random AAA pick, and to my surprise I found out that this was a popular dominating rush team. Now, for my question. I use Alpha assists for all 3. What are some of the most lethal strats that these 3 can do? I'll explain what I do.. -Either launch outright with Mag, or Hit psylocke AAA and launch into tempest XX hailstorm. Trying to get that combo is what I do, helped by storm to dash across. -Storm I mix up, either SJ-LA attack away and coming down with Typhoon or FP, or Hitting Psy's AAA, into Lightning AC, along with her FP pokes. -Psy I try to launch into Kochou Gakure, with Storm Assist to help her get in. I also keep close and use LK Psi blades repeatly to bait/hit them. Countering her into a Kachou Gakure is something I just got the knack of I'm the best player at my arcade 9 days out of 10, and I know I need to get better when that 10 th day a tourney winner whups my ass. What else can I do? Strider doom isn't too bad to fight, But Cable gives me fits (i get nailed by AHVB WAY too much to my assists and guard breaks) , how do I beat him (let's assume it's Cable/Cyke, Random other person) Thanks in advance I'll kill you... Kill you alot! I'm not Jinmaster, but for what it's worth... Mags/Storm/Psylock all on alpha is a good team. With mags on point, you have superior rushdown, susceptable to Strider/Doom and Spiral/Sent. Pretty much all other teams should get eaten up by your combo of Magneto with psylock AAA. -Learn the triangle jump (super jump up and air dash down forward really fast with roundhouse) -Learn his more impressive combos/setups. You can combo a seven hit air chain into an air dash hypergrav XX tempest combo off of a psylocke assist. I'll list that kind of stuff at the end -Roundhouse throw a lot. You can create a throw option with it. If they don't roll, you can (watching their stick) dash forward with C.Short -> C.Roundhouse XX Hyper Grav and then launch or super right there. -Tick throws are good, but try not to do it when you're helper is on the screen. If you call psylocke and they block, try to cross up with a triangle jump or just air dash past to cover her ass. If you always crossup on a blocked assist, she'll never get AHVBed and neither should you. You can also SJ and avoid the ground. -Mags does have a limited ability to build meter, like Storm, just SJ with fierces, air dash up and come down with fierces. Not a major strategy, but you never know... -Learn the timing to juggle a C.Short off of Psylocke assist so your opponent can't roll. It's possible. -Jack helpers whenever possible, unless you're fighting Cable. C.Fierce XX Magnetic Tempest is the ultimate helper jacking technique. Best part is, you can do it again! Three of those will kill a helper. THis works better on AAAs, not too good on Sentinel though. -Learn to work people into the corner. Mags is so much better there. Ok, the big combo C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong, S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Air Dash Upforward, A.D.Jab -> A.D.Short -> A.D.Strong -> A.D.Forward XX Hyper Grav XX Magnetic Tempest, S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Forward XX Hyper Grav XX Magnetic Tempest... You can do this on some characters (I know it works on Cable) straight from the ground, but it's harder to work on small characters. It should work on every character (well, maybe not the ones with wierd hit properties, ie Kobun or Roll) if you're juggling, OTGing, or launching them while they're jumping. This actually holds true for all launchers as well. When you juggle, OTG, or launch an airborne opponent, they will get hit slightly higher than normal. Mags can defintely take advantage of it. The Mix-up Set up C.Short -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Roundhouse XX Air Dash Downforward, A.D.D.Short -> A.D.Forward, land, {insert option} options are go for juggling infinite if you're god J.Jab -> J.D.Short -> J.Strong, land, repeat or go for S.Roundhouse /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Hyper Grav XX Magnetic Tempest, repeat Throws you can work throws into your combos and setups as they reset the combo meter and can do all kinds of other nasty things. Roundhouse Throw, D.Short -> C.Roundhouse XX Hyper Grav, C.Fierce... or if they roll, just walk backward and throw them again. It's evil, and not 199% foolproof, but you will catch people occasionally, and sometimes it will make them not want to roll, so you get to combo. also you can C.Short -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Roundhouse XX Air Dash Downforward, air throw Fierce will lock them down momentarily (depending on mashing ability) and roundhouse is a free attack. If they're inthe corner, you can C.Short -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Roundhouse XX Air Dash Downforward, Roundhouse air throw, J.Jab, land, jump, roundhouse air throw, land, and I think you can SJ with an air combo, but i'm not sure. I don't get to do this too much. And then you could always just C.Fierce, wait, and SJ with a throw. Another good mix-up as it usually throws your opponent into a temporary state of confusion. For Storm, all i can really say is just throw a lot. Tick a lot, and make people jump. It's really hard to avoid Storm's throws, if you've seen that Viscant vid then you'd see what i mean. Even if you jump, she can jump and air dash towards and still get a throw off. This will cause people to get very frustrated and call a helper frivolously, which you should always HailStorm like a good Storm player, especially if it's an AAA. The major brunt of Storm's HailStorm comes from the upper corner behind you to the bottom corner infront of you. AAAs ususally get stuck up there and get jacked, and i've even seen Cable AAA take like, over half damage from one HailStorm. Storm has a lot of the same rushdown elements of Mags (fast air dash, good triagle jumps, ground priority) so use it to your advantage, especially if your opponent is susceptable to rushdown. WIth Psylocke, just don't die. I"m serious. If you've got Psylocke in there and a lead, just don't die. Don't do anything but block and maybe SJ and stall for time. Jump off of the screen, do whatever. Honestly, it shouldn't get to this point. If it does however, learn who you can and can't beat straight up. You can just use pure rushdown on a lot of people, ticking for throws and praying to hit that C.Short. If you can beat a character with minimal risk, go for it. Especially if it's someone like Cyclops that can come back on you with chipping in the end. Use Dashing S.Fierce XX Fierce-Psi Blast a lot. It's pretty solid if your opponent also has no helpers. -- Fluffy Posted by Limp_Bizkit666 on 02:28:2001 12:53 PM: hey jinmaster, altho my previous post wasn't answered, i'm asking you for more.. i hope you are not overwhelmed.. sorry if you are. anyways, i just wanted to share something... i was playing with spiral, and i found out something pretty useful. a lot of times, you do jab jap fierce, or short short fierce... but, if you wanted to snapback someone, you had to anticipate it because you had to combo off of jabs, and wasn't really what you would do out of reflexes.. (i couldn't, but maybe otheers with great reflexes can.. i'm sure) but for lazier and slower people like me, there is an alternative!!! you can COMBO the snapback DURING the fierce!!!! i was playing in the arcades and i haven't done it at different distances and different characters to check for universality, but it did when i did it to blackheart... this will make snapbacks REALLY easy to do with spiral especially when using sentinel when fierce often combos into the mini-drones which you can then snapback also... i find spiral and strider are easiest people to snapback with, and i just wanted to ask you if you really can combo spiral snapback from fierce.. anyways, cool cable combo on opponent's third character: short, short, snapback, ahvb.. i THINK it connects... heehe, it looks kool as hell tho.. 2 black freezes in 1 second. WHEEEEE question 1: i do this with magneto... pop-up, roundhouse, airdash down-forward, d+short, jab, j. 4 hits then try to grav, tempt.. but, i can NEVER grav-temp!! is it cause i can't, or is it not possible? because when people do grav-temp after [roundhouse, airdash d-f] is only utilizing helpers like psylock or storm.... i can't, but since i'm not an expert mag player, i was wondering if experts can't either... hmm, i though you could do a special then a super during jumps.. maybe i should SUPER jump? i don't know.. can you?? thanks for your help. bye o(o.o)0 0(o.o)o ------------------ o(o.o)-0(*.0)-o if u dn't gt ths, go fc xr ttrl n pwrhg. Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 10:51 PM: Ok, I realise that some of the questions have been answered by others. I am really busy right now so I'm going to answer all the questions even though some have been answered. No disrespect to anyone helping out on this thread, I'm just running through the questions fast as I can. ____________________________________________ "Logans son, this is the team i use CYC(AAA)CAPCOM(AAA) AND DOOM(aaa) ! I really like this team , they can chip cyc and doom, i hvae this mini trap with capcom and doom which chips alot of life , what i do have them in the corner and call doom out while he traps them in the cornor i call sho the ninja and i jeep doing it until doom leaves then when they jump i call jetty to stun them but after that i can't get them back cuz doom takes some time 2 back.well my q is look at this team at it's best and determine if i should take x person for a onther person. i won't take cap out by the way he is 2 cool!" reply: Seems like a good team, you have your butt covered in most areas. I do see problems fighting Spiral teams, and commando AAA won't help you too much vs Strider/Doom. Your team is versatile, but I think you should keep Doom 2nd and definately put Cyclops last or Capcom last ****depending on the team you are fighting against****. Against Spiral you might want doom on point, and against Strider/Doom you shoudl have Cyke with his assist in back. If you are a good player and think you can take a good Cable with your team, I don't see too much reason to change the characters on it. Are there any teams that give you trouble right now? _____________________________________________ "Monkey, Who do you regularly use in tourney play? And what tips would you give to a guy attending a tourney this weekend (MvC2 mainly.. )" reply: It's all good, I ain't mad at ya. I usually use one of the teams that I listed as top in Cali a page or two back. I'm playing Spiral teams, Cable/Storm teams, and Doom/Storm/AAA teams. Tell me what teams you normally use, and I'll give you advice on what to expect in a tournament environment and what you should do and not do. ___________________________________________ "~Wind, I've been doing a lot of thinking and I still can't figure this out. Which is better: cable teams or doom teams? (overall effectiveness/ineffectiveness)" Reply: That's kind of a broad question. I really don't think there is a line between Cable teams and Doom teams. it's more like a few lines between Sent/BH teams, Magneto teams, Strider teams, Spiral teams, and Doom/Storm/BH/AAA/Sent combination teams. Cable is just the measuring stick for wether or not a team can be considered useful. If your team loses to Cable for free, then your team isn't very good. _____________________________________________ "Limp, thanks for the answers.. anyways, some more questions. =] let say you are sent, and you are juggling the assist...i heard that you should time it so that it DOESN"T combo, so that the assist recieves full damage without damage reduction from comboing.. so, 1) do you slow down the mouthlaser, the rocket punch, or the super??? i guess you slow down on the rocket punch???" Reply: Well, you can't slow down anything as far as I know, I think you should go for a low fierce instead of a high one and it should reset the combo meter, but I'm not the a total expert on Setinel so I could be wrong and if you are full screen you might miss a folow-up. If you have enough meter, it doesn't matter if you reset or not, it's more of a cable skill to me. "2) if you do slow down to kill the assist, can cable AHVB because of the timing?" reply: If you are rocket punching and it doesn't touch cable, he may be able to AHVB between stuff, but generally, if you just fierce and hyper-sent-force, you have nothing to worry about. The biggest mistake you can make is rocket-punching or mini's for a final hit and not have any meter to cancel into. "3) i'm starting to use snapback a lot.. i think it's really cool and a great way to show off your skills.. if you are cable, and you had the opponent in a short, short combo, would you rather AHVB that player or snapback? i'm sure it depends on the character that i'm snapbacking into, but suppose both had similar life, and i couldn't kill with ONE ahvb anyways...." reply: If you only have 1 meter, and the person you want to snap in doesn't have any damage to heal, I'd just AHVB the main helper. The reason is: #1) the main character cannot get that life back #2) you only have 1 meter, so you can't gaurdbreak off the snap #3) The characer you snap in can use assists all they want against you in a more than equal fight in most cases, as you have no meter for AHVB. "because i assume the answer is still "depends", then WHO would you snap back into? from the majority of the teams available, who is the more likely suspect of being snapped into the game?" Reply: Snap the AAA in. It's usually commando, or Cyclops or Cammy, and the AAA is most liekly to be hurt already, so you do definitive damage with your snapback. Otherwise, don't snap in characters that the opponent would want to have in anyway. A good example is a Storm or Spiral with am lot of life against your Cable. My biggest targets are usually characters that have a lot of red to recover, followed by weaker characters that were intended as primary assists. You do have to know team matchups extremely well to know when its a bad idea to snap in a primary assist, becuase you might jack yourself. Experience and exposure plays a role here. "4) i am finally starting to throw... can you give me all the information about throwing? like range, special properties, and such?" Reply: For whom? All ranges are different, all properties are different. The most important universal thing is that when you throw, you are invincible and assist will miss you. "i can throw and even tick throw on the ground, but when i'm in the air, i'm soooo blank.. the only time i can throw in the air is if i'm airdashing to the person, and NOT during a combo.. it's kinda frustrating.. help?" Reply: Timing. A good thinig to practice is Spirals roundhouse throw. Try launching opponent in corner with a 1,2,3,4, while pressing against them, then go back on the stick and hit roundhouse. Just mess with the timing and you will find out every characters AC throws, and this spiral one you can do twice. By holding back, she brings the opponent to the corner, bounces them, and you can realunch and SJ up for another full AC. It's won't work a third time due to the game engine. _____________________________________________ "Dragonfist, Ok i got a q? How do you break Spirals Sword trap? And how to avoid and or Breal Strider/Doom traps?" reply: For spiral swords, all characters can push block her before she re-loads, and super-jump out. Its a timing thing you just have to practice. A second thing you can do is call an invincible anti-air assist or a rushing assist to let you jump out. Some helpers allow her to pin certain characters down flat out. Sprial/Sentinel can lock Cable down very well, so you have to switch out or use an AAA, and if you dont have an AAA, you have to AHVB when you see a window. =( Strider/Doom trap is beaten by using an invincible AAA to knock away strider or doom. My advice is to pick Ken anti-air and put him in the back and just call him a lot, but do it intelligently. You can break sprial and strider traps with him on your team. For someone on your level, this will do for now as its easy and practical and does good damage. _____________________________________________ "Renegade, Good posts, Jinmaster. I think Jin rocks too. Especially in his FP color (the red). Quick question on him... what are his bread and butter super cancels? Because... the crouching MP isn't so great a link into blodia punch anymore, someway in the arcade I miss the launch->Saotome Cyclone more often than I'd like to see. Especially after jump ins (since most of his openings are creating during Jump D+HK). I like the sweep->punch, but i think it can be rolled." Reply: The only super-combos I personally use for Jin are standing short into blodia punch and standing strong launcher into great cyclone. most of the OTG princibles from MvC1 apply. Note the great cylone combo does not always work in the corner. "Also, As I got really into MVC2 the second time (meaning competitively in the arcades and such, as opposed to import Japanese over the summer on DC), I started to use Magneto. I saw the Hyper Grav->Tempest (something I never thought to do on the DC) and went from there. I picked up Storm when she was unlocked recently (we just got a new machine, it's level 19), and went with her. My addition of Psylocke was a random AAA pick, and to my surprise I found out that this was a popular dominating rush team. Now, for my question. I use Alpha assists for all 3. What are some of the most lethal strats that these 3 can do? I'll explain what I do.. -Either launch outright with Mag, or Hit psylocke AAA and launch into tempest XX hailstorm. Trying to get that combo is what I do, helped by storm to dash across. -Storm I mix up, either SJ-LA attack away and coming down with Typhoon or FP, or Hitting Psy's AAA, into Lightning AC, along with her FP pokes. -Psy I try to launch into Kochou Gakure, with Storm Assist to help her get in. I also keep close and use LK Psi blades repeatly to bait/hit them. Countering her into a Kachou Gakure is something I just got the knack of I'm the best player at my arcade 9 days out of 10, and I know I need to get better when that 10 th day a tourney winner whups my ass. What else can I do?" Reply: There is a team dynamic to Mag/Storm/Psylocke. The idea is that #1 Storm second for DHC to hail if they mash out of tempest #2 All characters can combo into a super in the air that any other character on the team can follow up on #3 Psylocke and Storm both help Mag rush down #4 Mag can kill most helpers that have taken some damage via launch into standing kick super into hailstorm Other than that when you have psylocke in, launch into 1,2,3,4,up+roundhouse, douhblejump, 1,2,3,4, fireball with kick, mash kicks, cancel into butterfuly super, and if Mag is next cancel into a tempest and if storm is next do a hailstorm. "Strider doom isn't too bad to fight, But Cable gives me fits (i get nailed by AHVB WAY too much to my assists and guard breaks) , how do I beat him (let's assume it's Cable/Cyke, Random other person) Thanks in advance" Reply: You have to suepr jump up and air dash down forward a tad later than normal to avoid Cyke so you can land on top of Cable. I suggest going for tick throws into combos when mixing up, what matters more is your air dashing skill and how experienced you are vs Cable. It depends on wether it's a turtle cable, a run-away cable, or a trap Cable. You need to alter your approach to him every time, but the goal is to awlays get in with mag. With storm you can just run and do vertical typhoons from the top of the screen. Most people won't start Cable vs mag though, as its very risky. All I can say is, you can use assists but make sure you always cross over Cable when you do it. You should tryto do as much unhealable damage to a battery/Cable team before Cable gets in, and then run with storm. _____________________________________________ "hyt, Quick q... prob been answered b4 but I was hoping you could outline the strengths of Spiral/Cable/Sentinel.... I want to hear your opinions on it... thanks a lot!" Reply: I think its a better team than Spiral/Cable/AAA becuase Storm doesn't beat it for free when she has a lead becuase Setinel can go for her. Also, Setinel assist makes spiral traps very hard to escape. Cable-AAA is good enough to mess with Strider/Doom, if you know when to call him. Cable can chip you with 5 meters and 5 spiral knife calls as an option to do about 50% at any given point. Lastly, Seintel can safely chip Cable where Cyclops cannot. The only weakness is the lack of a true AAA. I think that Mageto/Storm/AAA has a chance, as well as Strider/Doom, but I do not feel that Spiral/Cable/Setinel is particualrly weak vs any team. It is susecptible to some rushdown, but playing well can make up for it. I don't think this team beats every team, but I think this team has more potential than any other team I have seen. _____________________________________________ "Drew S., Hey Jinmaster, i would like to ask you about the Magneto airdash combo in which magneto is hiting the first three shots slow and then work up using the airdash." The combo is launch, time delay, 1,2,3, time delay, 1,2,3,4, air dash up, 1,2,3, time delay, 1,2,3,4, hypergrav XX mag tempest. Takes practice of course. I usually mess up the air dash part. =) _____________________________________________ "Limp, find spiral and strider are easiest people to snapback with, and i just wanted to ask you if you really can combo spiral snapback from fierce.." Reply: yes, but it has to start from a deep jab-strong, and it has to be before the 3rd of the fierce. I think thats right, but just do it after strong, its not too hard. "anyways, cool cable combo on opponent's third character: short, short, snapback, ahvb.. i THINK it connects... heehe, it looks kool as hell tho.. 2 black freezes in 1 second. WHEEEEE question 1: i do this with magneto... pop-up, roundhouse, airdash down-forward, d+short, jab, j. 4 hits then try to grav, tempt..but, i can NEVER grav-temp!! is it cause i can't, or is it not possible?" Reply: I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. Can you outline the combo once more a little more clearly? Thanks. "because when people do grav-temp after [roundhouse, airdash d-f] is only utilizing helpers like psylock or storm.... i can't, but since i'm not an expert mag player, i was wondering if experts can't either... hmm, i though you could do a special then a super during jumps.. maybe i should SUPER jump? i don't know.. can you??" Reply: I just dont understand what your question is....maybe I'm tired or something. Please explain the exact thing you are trying to do, from start to fininish, and I guess in normal terms. Thanks. _____________________________________________ Good questions guys. Keep it coming. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-28-2001).] [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 02:28:2001 11:11 PM: I'd also like to mention that I can help anyone with their wierd teams by structuring them the best way I can. I enjoy doing that, so questions about the non-stop tier are welcome. -Micah Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:28:2001 11:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by Renagade: I started to use Magneto. I saw the Hyper Grav->Tempest (something I never thought to do on the DC) and went from there. I picked up Storm when she was unlocked recently (we just got a new machine, it's level 19), and went with her. My addition of Psylocke was a random AAA pick, and to my surprise I found out that this was a popular dominating rush team. Funny, that's kind of the same thing that happened to me. When the game came out, and proved to be more outrageous than anything before it, it was a little too much for me, and I hated the game. Having never been a vs. series fan before, that didn't help. I did like Storm as a character, though, so when I played (very seldom), I used her, having no real idea that she was great; I just knew I liked her. I eventually started playing Magneto, because he suites my style, and I have fun with him. The AAA addition happened the same way...I just started using Cyke and Psy because they help Mags and Storm light it up. Then, like, a month after I established that team, I started seeing tourney results left and right with Mag/Storm/AAA placing. Just kind of funny, I thought. Posted by Monkey on 03:01:2001 12:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: "Monkey, Who do you regularly use in tourney play? And what tips would you give to a guy attending a tourney this weekend (MvC2 mainly.. )" reply: It's all good, I ain't mad at ya. I usually use one of the teams that I listed as top in Cali a page or two back. I'm playing Spiral teams, Cable/Storm teams, and Doom/Storm/AAA teams. Tell me what teams you normally use, and I'll give you advice on what to expect in a tournament environment and what you should do and not do. I use Magneto/Cable/Psylocke, Magneto/Storm/Psylocke, Magneto/Cable/Cyke, Magneto/anyone/anyone.. Iron Man/Cable/Psylocke, Shotos..haha sike..Spiral/Cable/Sent <--I would say that I'm good at the trap, but I still need alota work on it. I dont think that I'll be using that team in the tourney anyway, just my Magneto teams.. thankx d00d -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by VManOfMana on 03:01:2001 12:04 AM: Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Pretty smart posting on your 'what SRK is about' thread. Well, the main question is this: what about Chun Li? The main problem I see when playing her is that she needs someone to cover while she tries to play rushdown, since it looks like she got no keepaway tactics. My most common combination is Chun Li/Storm/Psylocke for the typhoon assist and Psylocke's AAA, but I have a lot of problems dealing with Sentinel/Blackheart, since I can't counter their assists with mine, and Sentinels' damage is huge. What I try to do is to use Storm's assist to force then to cover while I do a dash/jump/airdash to get close to them quickly, but either a) Blackheart stops me or b) Sentinel hits Storm before the typhoon comes out. Psylocke's not doing good either, since I still can't tell when to call for AAA assists since the CPU gets sometimes confused what to attack (ie, it goes for Sentinels' mini bots rather than Sentinel himself). CapCom's AAA has been useless with me for the same reasons, and Cammy's AAA has worked a little better, but I yet have to experiment with her more. My main problem I guess is that I haven't adapted well to the assist-heavy gameplay. What timing tips do you recomend for my assists so Chun Li can go rush-down? When can I call an assist while jumping/dashing/running/etc? I pretty much want to keep Chun Li to demonstrate she can do something with the proper help. Also, is it true it is possible to cancel Chun Li's mini-Kikoshou with Kikoshou (the super)? When playing with Chun Li I rely a lot on cornering and grabbing, but lately I have just been unable to approach the enemy. Again, thanks in advance. [Added in edit] I forgot. What's the most effective way to deal with Super Armor when you land on them? ----- Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana Anime purist, 2D gamer, BeOS supporter. "Victory is nice, but I have no time to celebrate" -Chun Li [This message has been edited by VManOfMana (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by Dr. Deelite on 03:01:2001 12:13 AM: Jiiiii-iiiiin... You still haven't answered my main question! If I launch you, with Mags, plenty of meter...what's going to happen? Posted by Dr. Deelite on 03:01:2001 01:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by VManOfMana: I forgot. What's the most effective way to deal with Super Armor when you land on them? RUN. Posted by DrewSpiegel on 03:01:2001 01:21 AM: Jin, you da man! I be sure to thank you in person at the next tourney! Posted by ~Wind on 03:01:2001 01:30 AM: Heres what happened to me today: i was using a team of doom, bh, cammy and the other guy was playing a rush team. he stuck to me at the beginning of the match and started attacking. i tried to shake him off with cammy's aaa, but for some reason, cammy's assist kept missing as she cannon spikes too far. so my question is, is there a way to push the opponent back with doom, if your aaa doesnt work? and also another question, is there a way to dodge, or counter storm's hailstorm? i've been having some trouble against that with doom/bh as a storm with max meter can chip you like hell. (btw that game ended up in a draw game, so we both lost... just pisses me off...) Posted by DrewSpiegel on 03:01:2001 01:47 AM: I would think so Wind, if your AAA was missing, push blocking and trying to setup the Doom/Blackheart Trap would've been my priority. But... I think that the Blackheart AAA is the Anti-Storm in the game, no matter where she is. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:01:2001 02:15 AM: First aplogy to Dasrik, forgot to reply to you. Second, I'd like to ask everyone with a picture sig to not use them in this thread, so it loads faster for everyone. _____________________________________________ Dasrik, "Landing the infinite has always been a little rough for me. I usually toss demons, airdash back, and toss them again, and this works sometimes but not always. The angle is weird for me. Any suggestions?" Reply: I actually forgot...heh. FluffyXXL knows, but you can kind of figure it out in practice mode pretty quickly. My bad. "Can Cyclops do the same with Gene Splice XX MOB? Or is it not as effective?" Reply: Yes, but I don't know what hit of the gene spice combos into MOB, I think its off the last hit...but I know the FIRST hit will combo into -S-OB. "I'm a little wary of doing non-follow-upable AHVBs; being an anti-Cable, I tend to bait players into burning off their meter so it's safer for me to attack them. When I play with Cable, I want to have AHVBx3 option still hanging out there most of the time... but that just may be me." Reply: Most people don't throw gernades when the other Cable could AHVB them at the SJ level, but when you do a gernade predictably and they are coming for you, AHVB is a safe way to save yourself. Landing one AHVB with no follow up is still a good deal IMO, cuase the damage is not healable. "Speaking of which, any suggestions regarding the Cable/Y-Storm trap? I can get out of that with a little thought, but it's a pain in the ass and I'm wondering if there's an easier way." Reply: What is it exactly? If it's standing-fierce/strom/gernade, I haven't exactly dealt with that before. I'm sure you can SJ out at some point, tell me the way people do it on you and I'll test it when I have time. _____________________________________________ "Monkey, I use Magneto/Cable/Psylocke, Magneto/Storm/Psylocke, Magneto/Cable/Cyke, Magneto/anyone/anyone.. Iron Man/Cable/Psylocke, Shotos..haha sike..Spiral/Cable/Sent <--I would say that I'm good at the trap, but I still need alota work on it. I dont think that I'll be using that team in the tourney anyway, just my Magneto teams.." Reply: Expect people to run away from you and set you up with helpers for AHVB. =) Now tell me what your competition likes to use. =) _____________________________________________ "VManOfMana, Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Pretty smart posting on your 'what SRK is about' thread." Reply: Thanks man, I appreciate the support. "Well, the main question is this: what about Chun Li? The main problem I see when playing her is that she needs someone to cover while she tries to play rushdown, since it looks like she got no keepaway tactics. My most common combination is Chun Li/Storm/Psylocke for the typhoon assist and Psylocke's AAA, but I have a lot of problems dealing with Sentinel/Blackheart, since I can't counter their assists with mine, and Sentinels' damage is huge. What I try to do is to use Storm's assist to force then to cover while I do a dash/jump/airdash to get close to them quickly, but either a) Blackheart stops me or b) Sentinel hits Storm before the typhoon comes out. Psylocke's not doing good either, since I still can't tell when to call for AAA assists since the CPU gets sometimes confused what to attack (ie, it goes for Sentinels' mini bots rather than Sentinel himself). CapCom's AAA has been useless with me for the same reasons, and Cammy's AAA has worked a little better, but I yet have to experiment with her more. My main problem I guess is that I haven't adapted well to the assist-heavy gameplay. What timing tips do you recomend for my assists so Chun Li can go rush-down? When can I call an assist while jumping/dashing/running/etc? I pretty much want to keep Chun Li to demonstrate she can do something with the proper help. Also, is it true it is possible to cancel Chun Li's mini-Kikoshou with Kikoshou (the super)? When playing with Chun Li I rely a lot on cornering and grabbing, but lately I have just been unable to approach the enemy. Again, thanks in advance." Reply: Well, Chun-li is actually a very special character, and to use her effecitvely you have to know her secret: She can call assists after any(even super jumping) stomp kick. So I'd put doom with her every time, and I think that air-dashing, triple jumping, and wall jumping, should help you get past BH. This alone should change your whole Chun-li game. "[Added in edit] I forgot. What's the most effective way to deal with Super Armor when you land on them?" Use a multiple hit jump in so the super armor will go away, most good characters can chain from fierce to roundhouse on a jump in, so thats one way. Do you really mean super-armor or Iron-body? _____________________________________________ Dr. Deelite, "If I launch you, with Mags, plenty of meter...what's going to happen? " reply: That would depend on wether I have good controls, and what the date is. I improved my mashing skills about a week ago, so on MOST sticks I will mash out 50% of the time, which is poor compared to some people. Long story short, I'm going to do my damndest to prevernt being launched. =) But no, I'm not known for mashing out of tempest consistently, but I would never let you land more than two in a row, that would be embarassing! Heh. _____________________________________________ "DrewS, Jin, you da man! I be sure to thank you in person at the next tourney!" Reply: Hey no problem, where do you live/play at? I'll probably see you at B5 is you live far away. _____________________________________________ "~Wind Heres what happened to me today: i was using a team of doom, bh, cammy and the other guy was playing a rush team. he stuck to me at the beginning of the match and started attacking. i tried to shake him off with cammy's aaa, but for some reason, cammy's assist kept missing as she cannon spikes too far. so my question is, is there a way to push the opponent back with doom, if your aaa doesnt work?" reply: Well, I would like to know what the other guys exact team was, and yours, but I'll see what I can say here. I think that you need to time when you call cammy, and I think that you may need to push block more. I push block A LOT with all characters, and I usually lose to non-rushdown becuase I've been push-blocking hard ever since MvC1. Also, remember that Doom's C.jab is excellent vs other characters, its fast and has more range. "and also another question, is there a way to dodge, or counter storm's hailstorm? i've been having some trouble against that with doom/bh as a storm with max meter can chip you like hell." reply: You can only dodge Hailstorm if #1) you are spiral #2) you are in that one little spot somewhere under and behind storm with a medium or smaller character. So you can't really do anything, except try to stop her on her way up to hail. You can stop her from doing more than 1 hail depending on who you are. Tell me your team and I'll give you a few ways to get her. A good way to stop her with doom is J.fierce and air dashing forward with jabs on an normal jump arc. Drew is kind of right, BH assist is the best assist you can have vs storm, accept one thing is wrong, it does matter where she is. If she is near you or rushing you, don't call bh cause he'll just get hit. _____________________________________________ Question for the people on this thread, How am I doing? Am I answering questions well enough? Do I need more detail or less detail? Am I being helpful? Thanks in advance, -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by DrewSpiegel on 03:01:2001 02:20 AM: We've already met before, I live in sac, saw you at the tourney in Folsom(17th). I'll see you again fo'sheezy, and I'll introduce myself properly. You are doin great man, keep coming with the strats! Posted by Jinmaster on 03:01:2001 02:29 AM: DrewSpiegel, Oh, so you saw my nervous ass lose to Viscant in my first match, and lose to Steve(whom I normally beat), in the losers bracket. The 17th sucked for me. =( The worst thing is, I thought the next tourney was this Sunday, not last sunday. =( So next sunday, I'll be up there for sure. -Micah Posted by logan's son on 03:01:2001 03:06 AM: jINMASTER THANKS ON THE GUARDBREAK Q,well my question now is what would be good team for a player who isn't assit heavy and likes old school players, see my freind get beaten almost all the time with his team which he normnally uses of guile (AA) akuma and ruby,or wove bith of them and sabertooth.I'M TRYING TO HELP HIM BUT he refeues to use any really good ppl the best person he uses ever in terms of efeec. is capcom.SO try to think of a ez team which doesn't use ppl like doom,strider,cable,and sent. he's good with guile and ruby but it's the third charcert which he needs to finish off his team Posted by logan's son on 03:01:2001 03:08 AM: jINMASTER THANKS ON THE GUARDBREAK Q,well my question now is what would be good team for a player who isn't assit heavy and likes old school players, see my freind get beaten almost all the time with his team which he normnally uses of guile (AA) akuma and ruby,or wove bith of them and sabertooth.I'M TRYING TO HELP HIM BUT he refeues to use any really good ppl the best person he uses ever in terms of efeec. is capcom.SO try to think of a ez team which doesn't use ppl like doom,strider,cable,and sent. he's good with guile and ruby but it's the third charcert which he needs to finish off his team Posted by Jinmaster on 03:01:2001 03:26 AM: Logan, "jINMASTER THANKS ON THE GUARDBREAK Q,well my question now is what would be good team for a player who isn't assit heavy and likes old school players, see my freind get beaten almost all the time with his team which he normnally uses of guile (AA) akuma and ruby,or wove bith of them and sabertooth.I'M TRYING TO HELP HIM BUT he refeues to use any really good ppl the best person he uses ever in terms of efeec. is capcom.SO try to think of a ez team which doesn't use ppl like doom,strider,cable,and sent. he's good with guile and ruby but it's the third charcert which he needs to finish off his team" Ok, before I answer for sure.. his teams consist of Ruby, Guile, Akuma, and sabretooth? Thats pretty tough. A few things: #1) Consensus shows that Charlie is prefered over Guile, mostly becuase he can chip with his punch super and be safe from AVHB, but if he must use guile, tell him that if he ever whiffs a sonic hurricane near the opponent, and the opponent goes for a dash-in on guile, you can charge down during the hurricane and sonic-kick the dash-in attempt. Catches a lot of people. #2) Can you please list all the characters he is willing to use, I mean all of them. It's hard to work with the 4 you mentioned but I'll do it if thats all I got to work with. If he won't pick anyone but those 4, I'm going to have to do quite a bit of writinbg on how to use Sabretooth and Ruby correctly, and Viscant is more qualified than I am on those characters. =p -Micah Posted by Cletus Kasady on 03:01:2001 03:27 AM: Just a couple of questions... 1) What's a useful way to punish helpers with BH? Or are there any? 2) Is it practical to take Psylocke and keep doing D.S.Fierce XX Fierce-Psi Blast so the S.Fierce just hits with the tip? Because the Psi Blast recovery is very fast, I remember hearing about it going through some stuff that it shouldn't, and if they tried to SJ out you could (assuming you have him) call BH. Thanks in advance. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Dasrik on 03:01:2001 03:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: I actually forgot...heh. FluffyXXL knows, but you can kind of figure it out in practice mode pretty quickly. My bad. That'd be cool except I don't have a DC. -_- quote: Reply: Yes, but I don't know what hit of the gene spice combos into MOB, I think its off the last hit...but I know the FIRST hit will combo into -S-OB. What I mean is do Gene Splice XX MOB ala Cable's Psimitar XX AHVB. quote: Most people don't throw gernades when the other Cable could AHVB them at the SJ level, but when you do a gernade predictably and they are coming for you, AHVB is a safe way to save yourself. Landing one AHVB with no follow up is still a good deal IMO, cuase the damage is not healable. OK, here is something that is kinda related but not quite: I'm playing Blackheart/Doom/Commando. My opponent is Cable/Cyclops/whoever. Doesn't matter, cuz I've killed whoever and Cable is at maybe 40-50% strength with 3 bars of super meter. My move: I call B-Commando assist. Cable kills Commando with AHVBx3. I know this sounds like a dumb play, but keep in mind that it's now Blackheart/Doom with a good amount of meter vs. Cable/Cyclops with no meter. Is the advantage I get worth it, in your opinion? quote: What is it exactly? If it's standing-fierce/strom/gernade, I haven't exactly dealt with that before. I'm sure you can SJ out at some point, tell me the way people do it on you and I'll test it when I have time. That's basically it - fierce x4 + Y-Storm xx grenade. Here's another question: What teams, besides Strider/Doom, give conceivably give Sent/BH/Commando trouble? Keep in mind that I can always switch BH and Sent (which is probably a good idea vs. Cable/Spiral)... [This message has been edited by Dasrik (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:01:2001 03:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik: Landing the infinite has always been a little rough for me. I usually toss demons, airdash back, and toss them again, and this works sometimes but not always. The angle is weird for me. Any suggestions? SJ towards when you do. Use tiger knee motion+roundhouse to catch the first wave. So it looks like htis C.Short (call cyke) -> C.Forward, QCUF+Roundhouse, air dash towards, roundhouse on the way down, and either repeat, go into jumping roundhouses on the ground, or just Inferno XX HOD quote: Originally posted by Dasrik: Can Cyclops do the same with Gene Splice XX MOB? Or is it not as effective? Depends on the situation. It does work fairly well against certain tactics, usually ones that leave you open for a long time and it does well to chip, but it is not nearly as effective as variable countering to AHVB. It's often better to Gene Splice into SOB off of a variable counter against rushdown. Aim SOB up. -- Fluffy Posted by logan's son on 03:01:2001 03:48 AM: here's the run down of the ppl he uses asterisk mean sthe ones he plays the most Akuma* morrigan both wolvie's guile* sakura capcom ruby heart* sabbertooth Posted by ~Wind on 03:01:2001 04:21 AM: I've been trying some Sakura and I really like her offensive style. But the thing is, can she actually win against the competition these days? (she cant really escape from traps all that well). If she could, how would I go about using her? [This message has been edited by ~Wind (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by Dasrik on 03:01:2001 04:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by ~Wind: I've been trying some Sakura and I really like her offensive style. But the thing is, can she actually win against the competition these days? (she cant really escape from traps all that well). If she could, how would I go about using her? May I field? (1) Use A-Sakura, which plows through projectiles. This assist helps you a LOT vs. Spiral because it clears a path and if you get close enough it may even hit her. However, be aware that (a) there is no invulnerably (and a bit of startup) on A-Sak, and (b) her feet are always vulnerable, so low knives from Spiral might take her out. (2) When Sakura's on point, you're going to want to have an assist like Y-Sentinel or B-Doom on your side to cover you while you use hurricanes and air hurricanes to close ground on the opponent. If he takes to the skies, try getting close enough to take him down with an aerial fireball. Use her rush move to get through projectiles (be sure you're backed up, though). Bread and butter combos are c.short -> s.forward xx shinkuu hadouken, and c.short -> c.forward xx shou ou ken xx midare zakura (I'm not sure if this last one works reliably, though). (3) NEVER use Evil Sakura mode. You get only one major advantage, and that's an instant start beam super. You LOSE the only reason you'd want to pick Sak in the first place - the rush that passes thru projectiles. Plus at a cost of 3 levels, it's just not worth it. Ideal teams for Sak are Doom/Storm/Sakura and Spiral/Sentinel/Sakura, imo. Posted by Limp_Bizkit666 on 03:01:2001 04:57 AM: hmm. sorry for the unclear question.. here is clarification, hope it helps. i'm sure you know the magneto infinite... and you are aware of the infinite setup. which is: [with magneto] launch, roundhouse, airdash d+f, d+short, jab, land, jump+jab, d+short, jab, land, repeat. this is what i'm trying to do. after landing, i want to do grav-tempest. but i think there is a limit of ONE special move or super per jump, (which is why guard break works) and therefore i can't pull it out.. so, do you think i can SUPERJUMP during the infinite so that i can pull off the grav-tempest without help of an assist? thanks. i really like throwing now, since it resets the combo meter and away from damage reduction, and also is practically free damage. =] anyways, when mashing with spiral's punch throw, would you mash like crazy like you do when getting out of grav-tempest? or mash like you mash on ahvb? cause sometimes i throw with spiral's punch and i'm tech.throwed, i'm mashing all buttons and stupid triple super comes out.. often results to retaliation.. =[ hehe, i'm kinda out of questions.. hehe, i'll think of more in hopes of "stumping the master".. =] bye o(o.o)0 0(o.o)o ------------------ o(o.o)-0(*.0)-o if u dn't gt ths, go fc xr ttrl n pwrhg. Posted by Cletus Kasady on 03:01:2001 05:32 AM: Just adding some input that is probably already obvious... When you launch with Magneto, another SJ.Roundhouse XX Airdash combo you can do that's pretty easy in comparison to others is... SJ.Roundhouse XX Airdash Down-Forward, SJ.DN.Short -> SJ.Strong -> SJ.Forward \/ S.Roundhouse (1 hit) XX Magnetic Shockwave If you're in or near the corner, then just go for Hyper Grav EX Magnetic Tempest after the 1-hit S.Roundhouse. Either of those is pretty easy damage. - Cletus Kasady Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:01:2001 05:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Other than that when you have psylocke in, launch into 1,2,3,4,up+roundhouse, douhblejump, 1,2,3,4, fireball with kick, mash kicks, cancel into butterfuly super, and if Mag is next cancel into a tempest and if storm is next do a hailstorm. I would think the large Psy combo would not be very efficent due to damage scaling, which woudl really hurt the 3 supers. I have seen much simpler combos with Psy do a lot of damage(almost 100 out of 143), so why all the extra hits, other than for show? "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by Jonstar! on 03:01:2001 06:47 AM: How would you beat a good strider/doom trap with IM/Cable/Psy? Posted by WhiTe ReFlection on 03:01:2001 06:58 AM: how do u use storm?? keep away or rush??? which is better? Posted by DrewSpiegel on 03:01:2001 08:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: DrewSpiegel, Oh, so you saw my nervous ass lose to Viscant in my first match, and lose to Steve(whom I normally beat), in the losers bracket. The 17th sucked for me. =( The worst thing is, I thought the next tourney was this Sunday, not last sunday. =( So next sunday, I'll be up there for sure. -Micah Hehe, if you were nervous, it didn't look it. I was watching a lot of the CvS matches for some reason, it was prolly Ricky Ortiz that kept me there. But Norcal is really starting to shape up in part to people like you. I thank you a million times. Given a few years, we will own Socal! Take it easy man! Posted by Jinmaster on 03:01:2001 08:22 AM: "Dasrik, What I mean is do Gene Splice XX MOB ala Cable's Psimitar XX AHVB." reply: Yes I know, you can XX SOB after the first hit. "OK, here is something that is kinda related but not quite: I'm playing Blackheart/Doom/Commando. My opponent is Cable/Cyclops/whoever. Doesn't matter, cuz I've killed whoever and Cable is at maybe 40-50% strength with 3 bars of super meter. My move: I call B-Commando assist. Cable kills Commando with AHVBx3. I know this sounds like a dumb play, but keep in mind that it's now Blackheart/Doom with a good amount of meter vs. Cable/Cyclops with no meter. Is the advantage I get worth it, in your opinion?" reply: Generally, you shouldn't do that unless you are EXTREMELY confident you can take out Cable before he gets meter again. At this point in the game, time is running short and Cable/Cyke can rush you down. Most traps can be countered by a AHVB. Now what I suggest is running for the rest of the match, making sure to push block all of cable's attempts to land his short on you. I really think it's a bad idea, but if you are confident, go for it. "That's basically it - fierce x4 + Y-Storm xx grenade. Here's another question: What teams, besides Strider/Doom, give conceivably give Sent/BH/Commando trouble? Keep in mind that I can always switch BH and Sent (which is probably a good idea vs. Cable/Spiral)..." reply: I tried the storm/cable trap vs inkblot today, it doesn't work very well. You have not be full screen for it to work, and your options vs it are: 1)Push block cable fierces so the gernade is thrown from full screen, jump out. 2)If cable is too good with gernades, just superjump up and eat the tornado, it will push you up and out of it For your last question, I think most spiral teams would give your team trouble, as well as Cable/Storm. I think the reasons are apparent. I even think Mag/storm has a decent chance vs it. _____________________________________________ Logan's son, I'm kind of busy at the moment, I'll answer your question tomorrow when I have more time. _____________________________________________ ~Wind, Dasrik did a good enough job with your question. =) _____________________________________________ Limp, I don't think that would work, you'd likely shoot poast him and only hit one kick. Even if you reverse AHVB the grav, I don't think it would work. I think you should do full Mag combos instead of the infinite. Mash Spiral's throw by shaking the stick left-right hard and raking all buttons, just like mags tempest. Rake the buttons diagnoly, and you will be less likely to throw out a team super. _____________________________________________ "Darth, I would think the large Psy combo would not be very efficent due to damage scaling, which woudl really hurt the 3 supers. I have seen much simpler combos with Psy do a lot of damage(almost 100 out of 143), so why all the extra hits, other than for show?" No, damage scaling has nothing to do with the combo, the damage that matters in scaling is the combo into butterfly, the reason it doesnt matter after that is that both hailstorm and tempest hit between 30 and 45 times, for 1 point each. It adds up. The reason you double jump is so that if mag happens to be next, the tempest will more likely hit becuase otherwise they might hit the ground and roll. The entire combo does a lot of damage if you dhc even once. _____________________________________________ "Jonstar!, How would you beat a good strider/doom trap with IM/Cable/Psy?" I would build meter with Ironman, jumping up a lot and throwing smartbombs and using angled J.fierces to attack and defend against Strider. If I land Psylocke, I'll do the infnite, and I'd Cable in when I had full meter. Otherwise, use Psylocke to break the trap. At that point, the strategy is obvious. ____________________________________________ White relection, I rush when its favorable to rush. I run when its favorable to run. I mix it up. No way is better, just certain situations call for certain things. _____________________________________________ Well, good night everyone. Logan's son, I'll get to your question tomorrow when I have time to think ok? Keep it up guys, I'll answer more questions tomorrow. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 02-28-2001).] Posted by Truedragon on 03:01:2001 08:48 AM: I just want to say "Props to u" for offering your help when you don't have too. Posted by sabretooth on 03:01:2001 09:37 AM: Jin, you have the new best thread ever. answering all these questions, and with details.Wow! I will copy my last 2 questions of the old norcal thread here so I hpe you give some help: Thank's, jin. It's spiral/storm/cable a team good enough to be my main, or there are teams that can make this team look weak(I'm really asking if this team is as good as storm/cable/aaa, spiral/cable/sent or aaa and mag/storm/psy). The characters I can play are storm, spiral, cable and cyclops. Can I make combinatons with those and have a good enough combination of main and counter teams(maybe with sent assist too). Thank you very much! And with cable/storm/cyc. Let's say I'm winning with this team ad the guy gets in, or in a tourney, after a victory(I wish). Can I beat a very good spiral/cable or bh/sent with my team? How? Thanks again Posted by Dasrik on 03:01:2001 12:38 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: reply: I tried the storm/cable trap vs inkblot today, it doesn't work very well. You have not be full screen for it to work, and your options vs it are (snip) DANKE. 1)Push block cable fierces so the gernade is thrown from full screen, jump out. 2)If cable is too good with gernades, just superjump up and eat the tornado, it will push you up and out of it quote: For your last question, I think most spiral teams would give your team trouble, as well as Cable/Storm. I think the reasons are apparent. I even think Mag/storm has a decent chance vs it. I don't know about Spiral - I think Commando assist would keep Spiral in check as long as my rush is good, but if she gets swords out I'd probably be in trouble. I'm seeing a problem with JohnDoe/Storm, though. AAAGH... I hate that combo. Posted by VManOfMana on 03:01:2001 12:47 PM: Thanks for the help, Jin. I will keep in mind the new info next time we meet to play. That assist-out-of-heel-kick is hopefully going to surprise them ^_^ Another question. If you didn't notice, I am mostly looking for an all-girl (sans Spiral) team (yeah, I am weird ^^;. How does Ruby Heart's AAA might work together with Storm's Typhoon or Psylocke/Cammy's AAA? Any strats for her? What assist do you reccomend for Chun Li? ----- Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana Anime purist, 2D gamer, BeOS supporter. "Victory is nice, but I have no time to celebrate" -Chun Li Posted by Dasrik on 03:01:2001 12:59 PM: Sakura Update for ~Wind: * The c.short -> c.forward xx shou ou ken xx midare, doesn't work. In fact, you can't combo Midare without assists :-( Stick to the Shinkuu hadouken combo. * Call an assist then do roundhouse hurricane for a simple crossup. A-Spiral and Y-Sentinel works. So does A-Storm and B-Doom. Remember, if your opponent gets projectile happy, you can do a covered rush to get through the mess and hit them.. * Sakura can do the air hurricane glitch (jab xx hurricane) like Ken and Akuma; however, she can only do it on Sentinel (and maybe Blackheart)... everyone else gets knocked away after the first hit. * Unless you're comboing Shinkuu Hadouken you should always launch with crouch fierce. Best air combo: jab short strong forward xx fierce sho ou ken. * Strafing with air fireballs is a decent way to kill time. However, Sakura can't build meter worth a damn so don't do this for too long. Posted by Iceman on 03:01:2001 08:54 PM: What's up Jin. I have a question for you. In response the a post that's starting to run amuck on this forum, do you think there are any characters "up and coming?" Anybody new who may start making some noise in the near future. I'm beginning to see where several of the second tiers have potential and even some of the third. What do you think. Posted by Monkey on 03:01:2001 09:15 PM: quote: Expect people to run away from you and set you up with helpers for AHVB. =) Now tell me what your competition likes to use. =) Well, they use Magneto/Cable/Cyke/Doom/BH/Storm/Strider/Iron Man/Sent/ thats basicly who they use. The only bad part about me going to tournies is that I'm not used to some traps, and when people do them on me, sometimes I am there for awhile, but after like the first time I get into the trap, I can get out.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:01:2001 11:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik: Sakura Update for ~Wind: * The c.short -> c.forward xx shou ou ken xx midare, doesn't work. In fact, you can't combo Midare without assists :-( Stick to the Shinkuu hadouken combo. That's a negative. You can combo Midare, but it must be in the corner. C.Short, S.Fierce XX Fierce-Hadoken XX Midare does work, but only in the corner. quote: Originally posted by Dasrik: * Call an assist then do roundhouse hurricane for a simple crossup. A-Spiral and Y-Sentinel works. So does A-Storm and B-Doom. Remember, if your opponent gets projectile happy, you can do a covered rush to get through the mess and hit them.. * Sakura can do the air hurricane glitch (jab xx hurricane) like Ken and Akuma; however, she can only do it on Sentinel (and maybe Blackheart)... everyone else gets knocked away after the first hit. * Unless you're comboing Shinkuu Hadouken you should always launch with crouch fierce. Best air combo: jab short strong forward xx fierce sho ou ken. Actually, I think her best air combo was Jab, strong, forward XX short-hurricane, jab sho ou ken. It also works on almost everyone. Sad thing is, this combo does as much damage as a comboed shinkuu hadoken combo. Sakura's average damage compacity is somewhere around 60-65 points of damage, including super combos. A comboed Midare does 70 i think. I like Sakura in this game, but it's just the fact that is usually takes three good openings to kill someone with her that is the turn-off, where most characters are only two and some top tier are only 1. -- Fluffy Posted by Jinmaster on 03:01:2001 11:48 PM: ____________________________________________ "Logan's son, here's the run down of the ppl he uses asterisk mean sthe ones he plays the most Akuma* morrigan both wolvie's guile* sakura capcom ruby heart* sabbertooth" Reply: That's really though, I think Ruby, Sabretooth, Akuma, and Capcom are the best characters there. I'm finding it nearly impossible to think of the best combination of characters in that list. I think his best shot must be Ruby-A/Capcom-B/Akuma-C. Basically, use Ruby C.roundhouse and call Akuma, then cancel into pillar, make a ghost and then another pillar. If they get in your face call Commando AAA assist. If Akuma hits a main person, dash forward and pillar them, then jump up and forward and punch super. Main strat: Build meter for Akuma doing the above, switch in akuma, play with ruby assist and SJ fierce fire balling, but your main goal is to spend that meter by landing a launcher on the main character, and doing a SJ. jab, roundhouse hurricane for 4 hits or so, XX air-super-fireball, DHC captain sword. That should give you enough fuel to run for the rest of the match. If you need a strat with Commando, try calling the ruby pillar and doing a roundhouse captain kick thing. You can chip characters safely with the ninja. If a helper comes out that you want to kill, dash up to it and fierce corridor it then XX captain sword. Don't do that vs Cable. Secodary strat: if you land a launch with Ruby before you switch akuma in and you feel the situation calls for it, you can launch into 1,2,3,4, punch super, control it to carry them up, cancel into Captain sword. Then use Ruby pillar assist and SJ up with akuma SJ fierce-fireball over and over till they get out. That is one of several combinations of the characters you mentioned that I would try. I have more combinations, if this doesn't work out, let me know. ____________________________________________ TrueDragon, reply: Thanks for the compliment. It means a lot to me, for real. I like helping out. ____________________________________________ Sabretooth, reply: Hey howz it going? Is your game getting better? Anyway.. "Jin, you have the new best thread ever. answering all these questions, and with details.Wow! I will copy my last 2 questions of the old norcal thread here so I hpe you give some help: Thank's, jin. It's spiral/storm/cable a team good enough to be my main, or there are teams that can make this team look weak(I'm really asking if this team is as good as storm/cable/aaa, spiral/cable/sent or aaa and mag/storm/psy)." reply: It's a very strong team, althogh your Spiral trap will not be as strong without sentinel, your Cable/Storm combination after the switch is more powerful than a Cable/Spiral/Setinel combination, with a side benifit of Storm assist playing a major role in Spiral/Spiral. In fact, I think this team would do well vs Magneto teams provided Mag is killed before cable gets in, as you have no more AAA, but I'm not so sure about Spiral/Sent/BH. "The characters I can play are storm, spiral, cable and cyclops. Can I make combinatons with those and have a good enough combination of main and counter teams(maybe with sent assist too). Thank you very much!" reply: You will need more than those characters to have a decent counter-team selection. I suggest learning Mag/Storm/AAA, Strider/Doom/AAA, and Doom/Storm/ insert BH or Sent or proper AAA. "And with cable/storm/cyc. Let's say I'm winning with this team ad the guy gets in, or in a tourney, after a victory(I wish). Can I beat a very good spiral/cable or bh/sent with my team? How? Thanks again" reply: You can beat Sent/BH, and Sent BH can beat you, you have a slight advantage becuase Cable beats both Sentinel and Blackheart. The problem is that Sentinel players have gotten much much better, so you do have to play intelligently. As for Spiral, I still feel that Cable/Storm/AAA is very weak vs Spiral teams. You can win, but you are at a disadvantage to be sure. ____________________________________________ "VManofMana, Thanks for the help, Jin. I will keep in mind the new info next time we meet to play. That assist-out-of-heel-kick is hopefully going to surprise them ^_^ Another question. If you didn't notice, I am mostly looking for an all-girl (sans Spiral) team (yeah, I am weird ^^; . How does Ruby Heart's AAA might work together with Storm's Typhoon or Psylocke/Cammy's AAA? Any strats for her? What assist do you reccomend for Chun Li?" Reply: I think Doom-AAA is the best assist for Chun-Li, but BH is also good. Ruby on point with Storm-gamma assist seems like a good idea, haven't played with it yet. Tell you what, tell me what 3 characters you want to use, and I'll organize your team and give you some strategy. ____________________________________________ "Iceman, What's up Jin. I have a question for you. In response the a post that's starting to run amuck on this forum, do you think there are any characters "up and coming?" Anybody new who may start making some noise in the near future. I'm beginning to see where several of the second tiers have potential and even some of the third. What do you think." Reply: Sup Iceman, thats a good question. #1) Chun-li I am under the impression that Chun-li is a lot better than anyone gives her credit for. Her ability to stay and manuver in the air is only rivaled by Storm and Dhalsim, with a few exceptions. The best part is that she can call assists while NOT fyling, so she can block. She has all the time in the world to position herself after a stomp to call the helper of choice. Use PP to air dash and you can rush down with her easily. Her biggest problem is BH assist, all other assists are easily dodged. Secondly, she is hard to catch. Thirdly, her super combo does good damage. Fourthly, her AAA may not be invincible, but it hits them up like 6-8 times and it does it slowly, so you have ALL DAY to land an AHVB, Air photons, Inferno XX HOD, Hailstorm, basic AC with anyone, just name it. Plus she's quick and can play the throw game. So I think Chun-li is a lot better than most people think, not top tier, but not one of the worst characters like some people have been saying. I'm not talking out of my ass either, I have played 3-4 different quality players somewhat consistently with my Chun team, whose names I won't mention. =) I've beaten Spiral teams, and Sent/BH teams, and Cable based teams with her, for the most part. #2) Akuma, I've seen Ricky Ortiz do very well with him, becuase of the fact that his launcher into the damage-scaled hurricane into XX fireball-super does a hell of a lot of damage, and when you follow up with hailstorm, that's pretty much game. Also, when you make someone block a long-lasting assist like Doom or something, and you establish near full-screen and start raining down fierce fireballs, it's hard for them to get out, and they can't call many assists that won't get jacked by a fireball, or a super barrage. He also has his teleport, as most people forget. His assist lasts a while and sets up nearly all supers in the game. I think he is more playable than most people think. #3) Megaman, He is just good in general vs a lot of top teams, main Mag/Storm/Psy and some Cable teams. Rockball/assist/jumping busters fills the screen very well, and he is also somewhat good at rushdown do to his megabuster and assist calls. I'm not sure if he will ever rise above where he is considered to be, but he jsut might. Note: I numbered these characters 1-3, 1 representing the character I feel is the most underrated and 3 the least. Those are the only characters outside of the "norm" that I'm thinking about at this time, although I think Ruby heart is also a lot better than most people give her credit for. ____________________________________________ Monkey, Reply: It looks like your competition sticks to the top tier, so your Magneto team can escape most traps in the game. I can't tell you what to really expect unless I play in your area, but I can tell you that you may get nervous during the tournament. I suggest that you learn to play under pressure more, so that you won't make silly mistakes. Like when you have meter with storm, don't go crazy with the typhoon XX hailstorm. A calm player will not call a helper or get hit by any of it, and in fact thet will bait you to hail their helpers when they know there is enough time for those helpers to heal. I suggest you learn to curb your instincts to stick shit out there when there is a lot of pressure early in your tournament career. ____________________________________________ FluffyXXL, Thanks for helping me out man. I appreciate it. ____________________________________________ Good questions everyone, hope to see more. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-01-2001).] Posted by MarkyMark on 03:02:2001 12:41 AM: Some fairly technical questions... 1) Does push-block change the dynamics of guard breaking at all? Does it extend block stun to let you block longer? Does it put the opponent (usually Cable) in any sort of stun that makes the timing different/more difficult? 2) I notice that after some throws, special move motions must be entered ass-backwards. I.E., Cable does his HK throw, and I intend to land and teleport immediately with Strider - a Gram comes out. Do you understand completely the dynamics of this phenomenon? Do you know which (if not all) throws cause this? 3) Can normal moves, when connected, be cancelled into a super jump? Someone earlier posted at SRK that Guile's d.HK could be cancelled into his rush super, which is air only, by doing the Tiger Knee motion, which in effect, cancelled the d.HK (after the first hit) into a super jump. I messed with it a bit, and found that you don't need to do the rush super - just a regular super jump will cancel the d.HK, but only if it connects. Is this just an isolated incident or is it something that can be applied further to other characters? Thanks, and you're doing a great job. http://www.geocities.com/societypropriety/gg_kystance.gif Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com www.Fandom.com/Videogamers Posted by VManOfMana on 03:02:2001 12:57 AM: Thanks for taking the time, Jin. Okay, here are the characters I have as possibilities: * Chun Li (if the team can move around her even better) - right now I use AAA, and do a lot of grab game with OTG combos if on corner * Morrigan * Psylocke * Storm * Felicia * Ruby Heart * Cammy * Bulleta * Tron * Marrow * Sakura * Jill Other options: * Captain Commando * Strider As you can see, I play a rushdown a lot, very MvC1 style. Something I pursue a lot is a way to make combos out of DHC with several characters. For example, Psylocke air combo that ends with Shokou Gakure/Felicia combo that ends with Help me Please, DHC into Soul Eraser or Hailstorm, DHC into Kikoshou. If in corner, OTG into Senretsukyaku, add another special. Most dangerous opponents I face right now: teams with Cyclops/Cable, Doom/Blackheart, Blackheart/Sentinel. Most irritatig is a Sentinel/Blackheart/Shuma Gorath. This guy loves to use Shuma's 3 levels super, trap me with Blackheart's AAA and use the stun to grab me with Shuma. Another wacky team he uses is Juggernaut/Colossus/Sentinel (raw power team). Another question. Probably you missed it, but in the beginning I also asked you about the possibility of cancelling the Mini Kikoshou into the Hyper Combo Kikoshou. Also, is it possible to combo an Air Darkness Illusion out of a ground combo with a AHVB-like motion (just came out with this idea)? General timing question. What is the best moment to call an AAA? I have seen that the assist can get confused about what to hit whenever there are beams, or other elements coming out of the opponent's character (Doom's rocks, Sentinels' bots, etc). Thanks in advance, and have a nice day. ----- Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana Anime purist, 2D gamer, BeOS supporter. "Victory is nice, but I have no time to celebrate" -Chun Li [This message has been edited by VManOfMana (edited 03-01-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 01:34 AM: ____________________________________________ MarkyMark, "Some fairly technical questions... 1) Does push-block change the dynamics of guard breaking at all? Does it extend block stun to let you block longer? Does it put the opponent (usually Cable) in any sort of stun that makes the timing different/more difficult?" reply: A) It only changes the timing of some gaurdbreaks, with others it may not matter what you do. B)It does slightly increase your block-stun. C)Don't push-block the bullet vs Cable wuth meter, **ONLY** do it when he is trying to guard-break you with **no meter**. If you pushblock when Cable has meter, you make his gaurd-break even better. All he has to do is mash the beam low after you push the bullet, then move it up after your push-block ends. You will actually be lower in the beam now, and he can do multiple AVHVB's even easier. "2) I notice that after some throws, special move motions must be entered ass-backwards. I.E., Cable does his HK throw, and I intend to land and teleport immediately with Strider - a Gram comes out. Do you understand completely the dynamics of this phenomenon? Do you know which (if not all) throws cause this?" reply: I've never had that happen before, it only makes sense if you happen to have been thrown so that you cross over Cable, meaning he held back when he hit roundhouse and threw you back instead of forward. Otherwise I'm not sure, it's never happened to me before. Anyone else in this thread experience this? "3) Can normal moves, when connected, be cancelled into a super jump? Someone earlier posted at SRK that Guile's d.HK could be cancelled into his rush super, which is air only, by doing the Tiger Knee motion, which in effect, cancelled the d.HK (after the first hit) into a super jump. I messed with it a bit, and found that you don't need to do the rush super - just a regular super jump will cancel the d.HK, but only if it connects. Is this just an isolated incident or is it something that can be applied further to other characters?" reply: Some normal moves, such as launchers, have end frames that allow you to super jump, if you have ever played MvC1, you'd know that wolvie can super-jump before his C.roundhouse ends, provided the opponent got hit by the groundhouse. Wolvie could continue his combo. Same goes for Cable's S.roundhouse. When he starts to retract his leg, do the AHVB motion and you will SJ into air-hyper-viper-beam right off the ground. You can also hit down-up for the same effect, you have to time it though. Many characters have this property on one of their non-launchers, but it has not been documented what moves are cancelable,(probably becuase most people haven't thought to before) as far as I know. "Thanks, and you're doing a great job." Thanks man, the praise makes it worth while. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-01-2001).] Posted by Iceman on 03:02:2001 01:48 AM: Thanks Jin. Chun-Li. That one is insteresting. I'll have to try her out and see. I agree with Akuma and Megaman completly. I had another question but I forgot it during classes today. Oh well. Maybe I'll remember tonight. "...I'll string you up from a big ass tree, with a sign around your neck that says 'Whack MC'"--MC Hawking Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:02:2001 01:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark: Some fairly technical questions... 1) Does push-block change the dynamics of guard breaking at all? Does it extend block stun to let you block longer? Does it put the opponent (usually Cable) in any sort of stun that makes the timing different/more difficult? It will affect some guard breaks, as most of them require a certain positioning in order to do it. The one's it doesn't effect too much are Storm and Cables, which is why Cable's is so good. It doesn't require positioning to pull off, only timing. Storm's requires positioning to set up, but nothing really importart cuz you air dash forward when doing it anyway. quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark: 2) I notice that after some throws, special move motions must be entered ass-backwards. I.E., Cable does his HK throw, and I intend to land and teleport immediately with Strider - a Gram comes out. Do you understand completely the dynamics of this phenomenon? Do you know which (if not all) throws cause this? Honestly, I don't know, and I doubt Jinmaster knows either. There are some throws that do that. My own theory on some of them is that it locks onto whatever direction you were in when you started, seeing as how Cable's throw crosses your sides, I would assume you'd have to do the motion locked onto the other side until you've completely landed and recovered. I can't say for sure that all throws do that. Most of the time, you don't want to stick anything out or leave yourself open after a throw, so just wait to recover, then do the move as fast as possible. quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark: 3) Can normal moves, when connected, be cancelled into a super jump? Someone earlier posted at SRK that Guile's d.HK could be cancelled into his rush super, which is air only, by doing the Tiger Knee motion, which in effect, cancelled the d.HK (after the first hit) into a super jump. I messed with it a bit, and found that you don't need to do the rush super - just a regular super jump will cancel the d.HK, but only if it connects. Is this just an isolated incident or is it something that can be applied further to other characters? Yes, normal moves can be cancelled with a super jump if they connect. You can cancel the recovery of the move (like Cable's S.roundhouse) with a super jump so long as it hits. The specific example with Guile probably won't work, but you can combo that off of S.Roundhouse in the corner on taller characters. Other characters can do that, like Mags can SJ cancel out of a C.Roundhouse and air dash down. Storm and Rogue can do the same. Any character with an eight-way air dash probably can, but I wouldn't bank on it a lot, basically due to the fact that the opponent can roll. quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Thanks for helping me out man. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My thread died. Yada yada yada... -- Fluffy Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 02:22 AM: ___________________________________________ "VManOFMana, Thanks for taking the time, Jin. Okay, here are the characters I have as possibilities: * Chun Li (if the team can move around her even better) - right now I use AAA, and do a lot of grab game with OTG combos if on corner * Morrigan * Psylocke * Storm * Felicia * Ruby Heart * Cammy * Bulleta * Tron * Marrow * Sakura * Jill Other options: * Captain Commando * Strider As you can see, I play a rushdown a lot, very MvC1 style. Something I pursue a lot is a way to make combos out of DHC with several characters. For example, Psylocke air combo that ends with Shokou Gakure/Felicia combo that ends with Help me Please, DHC into Soul Eraser or Hailstorm, DHC into Kikoshou. If in corner, OTG into Senretsukyaku, add another special. Most dangerous opponents I face right now: teams with Cyclops/Cable, Doom/Blackheart, Blackheart/Sentinel. Most irritatig is a Sentinel/Blackheart/Shuma Gorath. This guy loves to use Shuma's 3 levels super, trap me with Blackheart's AAA and use the stun to grab me with Shuma. Another wacky team he uses is Juggernaut/Colossus/Sentinel (raw power team)." Reply: The best team you can get out of that list is: Ruby-A/Storm-A or C/Cammy-A You can rush down most characters with pillar-Storm/Cammy assist. And do a significant amount of damage to helpers and the main character. When you get the chance launch into a full AC-super combo, cancel to Hailstorm. Also, I think that if you land a cammy assist on the point character, you can quickly punch super with Ruby and quickly cancel into Hailstorm, but I'm not sure. If you want to sub Commando for Cammy, that would work too. So yous strat is: Ruby-a/Storm-a/Cammy-a With the main strategy being: Battery/DHC-to|User/Primary-assist. "Another question. Probably you missed it, but in the beginning I also asked you about the possibility of cancelling the Mini Kikoshou into the Hyper Combo Kikoshou." reply: I don't know, I'll have to test it. Give me a day or so. "Also, is it possible to combo an Air Darkness Illusion out of a ground combo with a AHVB-like motion (just came out with this idea)?" reply: Right now, I'd say it's possible becuase she may have a normal non-launcher move that has end-frames that are super-jumpable that no one knows about. If there aren't any,(that can be found through testing) then no. =) The only known ways are to combo it are through helpers or DHC's.....wait a minute. The darkness illusion shouldn't hit anyway, becuase it still comes out at the same speed as it would on the ground, with even a longer gap considering that you input the milliseconds it takes to superjump...no I don't think you can combo the darkness illusing with a SJ at all. =( "General timing question. What is the best moment to call an AAA? I have seen that the assist can get confused about what to hit whenever there are beams, or other elements coming out of the opponent's character (Doom's rocks, Sentinels' bots, etc). Thanks in advance, and have a nice day." reply: Not sure what you mean by the assist getting confused, all assists have different properties. Some will go through beams, some will not, some will penetrate Blackhearts RH demons, some won't. In order to understand when to call AAA, you have to understand what AAA's are invincible, and for how long. For some assists, only certain parts of an assist can be hit(commando's feet for a split second during his AAA assist). Obviously, the best time to call one is when you know it will achieve something, like 1) After an opponent calls his AAA, call yours for free hits on their AAA plus this gives you time to move. 2) During a combo if you know the assist will facilitate your combo/chip-strat/option-setup. 3) When you know the assist will directly pressure the opponent or put the opponent where you want them, should they block it. 4) When you want to bait the opponent into wasting supers on your helper, knowing that they don't have the ability to kill it, and also knowing if you don't call that helper anymore, it will fully heal in 30 seconds. 5) When you want to break out of a trap, or use it in a trap. Those are the best times that I can think of at the moment. ___________________________________________ Questions welcome. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-01-2001).] [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-01-2001).] [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-01-2001).] Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:02:2001 02:50 AM: Hey Jinmaster, I simple want you opinion on Sent/Doom/BH in general, please. Matchups, etc. Where I play I normally can win with ease, so I generally don't get a lot of exposure to counter strats, etc, so I would appreciate it. Also Jin AAA would stop Strider/Doom, correct? "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 03:15 AM: DarthSalamder, "Hey Jinmaster, I simple want you opinion on Sent/Doom/BH in general, please. Matchups, etc. Where I play I normally can win with ease, so I generally don't get a lot of exposure to counter strats, etc, so I would appreciate it." reply: Setinel/Doom/BH could be countered by Cable/Spiral pretty well. I think it's safer to start doom on your team, so you can battery for Sentinel and/or DHC to his HSF off a super-photon-array AC. Then you have his trap with BH, and a fly/doom-assist chip option to build more meter. I'd watch for the typical Spiral teams as well as the typical Magneto ones. You can read through this thread to learn about those. "Also Jin AAA would stop Strider/Doom, correct?" reply: Yes, Jin is invincible and can knock doom and strider out. However, while Jin-AAA is really good and covers a lot of horizontal area, he is one of the worst point characters in the game. If you use him, make sure you use his assist well. ____________________________________________ Whee! -Micah Posted by yellow press on 03:02:2001 03:54 AM: hi i just started to play this game so i thought taht i would use cable, doom and black heart can you give me some simple strats to start me on the right track Posted by logan's son on 03:02:2001 04:00 AM: Hey thinks Jinmaster i'll pas your info on to my friend and see if can get better! Posted by lil vynce on 03:02:2001 04:28 AM: jinmaster, i have a few questions about marvel vs capcom 2: 1) what are some strategies for vega (m. bison). i know the basics but since i recently began playing as him, i am not sure of the best assist to put him on and the tactics to use. 2) i can play a decent gambit, but because i picked him up after the local arcade closed, i have only tried him on my friends and the computer. is there anything holding him back from being a contender? any tips would also be appreciated. 3) i am thinking of picking up marrow and am wondering if she is worth the effort. what is your opinion? 4) finally, i have been interested in playing zangeif for awhile, but like with marrow, i am unsure if he is worth the effort. how do you suggest playing him. thanks in advance and keep up the good work, this post has been very informative. -vynce bodi Posted by Templar Knight on 03:02:2001 04:33 AM: Jinmaster, I just got one question..... Im an inter/newbie player at the momment and am not considering entering competitions or anything, just beating the local arcade players . My current team is (and has been for a while) Charlie (AAA), Cable (projectile) and Sentinel (ground). Id greatly appreciate it if you have any sort of advice, strats, combos etc. for this team, escpessially for Charlie, he probably is the weakest link here , but I luv using him . Thanks. Posted by Monkey on 03:02:2001 05:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Monkey, Reply: It looks like your competition sticks to the top tier, so your Magneto team can escape most traps in the game. I can't tell you what to really expect unless I play in your area, but I can tell you that you may get nervous during the tournament. I suggest that you learn to play under pressure more, so that you won't make silly mistakes. Like when you have meter with storm, don't go crazy with the typhoon XX hailstorm. A calm player will not call a helper or get hit by any of it, and in fact thet will bait you to hail their helpers when they know there is enough time for those helpers to heal. I suggest you learn to curb your instincts to stick shit out there when there is a lot of pressure early in your tournament career. I suggest you learn to curb your instincts to stick shit out there when there is a lot of pressure early in your tournament career. By that, do you mean: make sure that I can do the move that I need to do, when it needs to be done?! I can 99% of the time, if thats what you are talking about.. I do play good under pressure too. The last tourney that I was at, (*My first) I lost once, so if I did again, I would be out, anyway, this d00d, he was mad good, kicked my ass the first game, I just had a self talk in my head, and calmed down, whooped his ass the second time.. whoo! Then I said to myself, I can do this. The third game was CLOSE AS HELL! We both killed 2 of eachothers characters, and it ended up him winning by meir pixels of life, as time ran out.. At the end, we shook hands, and sat and watched the rest of the time. I thought I did good for the first tourney I was at, plus I was only there for the experience, and it worked out well.. Now, I wouldnt mind going and playing my hardest to see how good I am. I have improved alot during the time period where I havent been at any tourneys. I also think that I can stick the moves more consistant than before too. Like before, I would maybe get the hypergrav -> tempest combo 2/5 times, and now I get it 4.5/5 maybe even 5/5, so I dont have to worry about that anymore. The only thing though, how many people are going to mash my hg->tempest? Should I do it even though they might mash out of it, waste a super if they do, and go on with it? Anything else?! -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by ~Wind on 03:02:2001 05:32 AM: Thanks for the info Dasrik. I have another question. Is Doom any good without Blackheart? I mean, without bh doom has no coverage for super jumping opponents right? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 08:15 AM: ____________________________________________ "Yellow Press, hi i just started to play this game so i thought taht i would use cable, doom and black heart can you give me some simple strats to start me on the right track" reply: Simple strat for that team would be this order: Doom-B/Cable-B/Blackheart-B The premise is: Battery/DHC-to|User/Primary-Assist Normal-Jump backwards with fierce and call Blackheart as keep-away. In close use Cable-AAA. After they block the assist, super-jump back and throw 2-3 photons, making sure to not do so if they wave-dash under you. When you've built enough meter, switch in Cable when it's safe, or land an air super-photon array with doom and DHC to Cable HVB. You could also just switch cable in when you see a safe chance. I assume you know how to play cable, so use Blackheart to keep them from running from you, and cross up people with Doom-Assist until you see the opening to AHVB the helpers to death and/or the main character. When Cable dies or needs out, you can choose between the doom/bh trap I just mentioned, or do the BH/doom trap which is super jump up with BH, throw roundhouse demons, air dash, throw demons after they block the first one, then land next to them and call doom. Super jump up and repeat. Use inferno XX heart of darkness for more chipping. ____________________________________________ Logan's Son, "Hey thinks Jinmaster i'll pas your info on to my friend and see if can get better!" reply: You're welcome. Tell him I said good luck, and if he wants to try another combination, I'll try to think of one. Keep encouraging him to use more characters as well. ____________________________________________ "lil vynce, 1) what are some strategies for vega (m. bison). i know the basics but since i recently began playing as him, i am not sure of the best assist to put him on and the tactics to use." reply: If you read back in the thread a bit, you'll see that I already mentioned what I know about Bison. Basically, I don't play him but I know a few things. #1 Psycho-Crusher goes through knives, to kill helpers. #2, the expanding-ball of blue flame is his best assist, although I'm not sure which assist that is. He can also head-stomp from SJ height. "2) i can play a decent gambit, but because i picked him up after the local arcade closed, i have only tried him on my friends and the computer. is there anything holding him back from being a contender? any tips would also be appreciated." He's not mobile enough to beat nearly any Cable team. His only safe super is the kick one, and that can be AHVB'ed before he makes it to the wall. The most annoying thing that I've seen gambit do is call good assists while doing that off-the-wall kick move and crossing people up. I guess you could try to get that down, and who knows, it might end up being pretty good after you try some good assists with him. "3) i am thinking of picking up marrow and am wondering if she is worth the effort. what is your opinion?" reply: Hell no. God knows I've tried, and maybe a few combinations of assists make her more useful, but she looses flat-out to cable. Through experience, I've found that she has zero priority on most of her attacks. She can't punish helpers safely, and she takes damage very poorly. She has some potential due to her projetile and her aiblity to fling herself at the opponent, but otherwise, I'd just stay away. She is too hard to use properly, but if you play her enough, I guess she might enter the realm of "ok". "4) finally, i have been interested in playing zangeif for awhile, but like with marrow, i am unsure if he is worth the effort. how do you suggest playing him. thanks in advance and keep up the good work, this post has been very informative. -vynce bodi" reply: I think Zangief is only really useful in Iron-Body mode, which I assume you are familair with. His popular assist is the clothesline, which he can't be knocked out of in Iron-body mode, and sets up most supers. His other assists are useful in both setups and combos, but the clothesline seems to be the most practical. You are limited in what you can do, but doing non-stop splahes and launches seems to work. His AC is short but does a good chunk of damage. Unfortuantely it puts him in flying screen dash most of the time, so don't do the combo on Cable unless its near the corner." ___________________________________________ "Templar Knight, Jinmaster, I just got one question..... Im an inter/newbie player at the momment and am not considering entering competitions or anything, just beating the local arcade players . My current team is (and has been for a while) Charlie (AAA), Cable (projectile) and Sentinel (ground). Id greatly appreciate it if you have any sort of advice, strats, combos etc. for this team, escpessially for Charlie, he probably is the weakest link here , but I luv using him ." reply: While I never use Charlie myself, I'd make your team: Setinel-C/Cable-B/Charlie-C premise: Battery/DHC-to|User/Primary-Assist I understand that you like using Charlie, but when you have a weak point character with a strong AAA, it's best to use him as a primary assist. Battery for Cable by using Setinel, if you don't know how to use Setinel very well, I STRONGLY suggest downloading the tournament vids on this site. Basic Setninel play is right there for you to watch. If you are unable to download vids, I guess I can explain basic Sentinel play, just say so. Anyhow, get Cable in when you have 4 meters or so, but do it safely. Wait for them to superjump or switch cable into an opponent's projectile or something. Now you have Cable with a decent AAA and a good anti-crossup/anti-spiral assist: Sentinel-C. I'll assume you know how to play Cable correctly, but if not just ask and I'll do my best tomorrow when I'm at work. If you MUST use Charlie on point, I suggest putting your team as: Charlie-AAA/Setinel-C/Cable-B, Premise: Battery/Primary-assist|DHC-(from User)/User. Switch Cable in when you have enough meter from Charlie play. I suggest a lot of sonic booms and Sentinel calls to do this. Then you have a ful cable, and the same sitation as in the first setup. If I'm being too technical(not to be offensive), let me know. ____________________________________________ "Monkey, I suggest you learn to curb your instincts to stick shit out there when there is a lot of pressure early in your tournament career. By that, do you mean: make sure that I can do the move that I need to do, when it needs to be done?! I can 99% of the time, if thats what you are talking about.. I do play good under pressure too. The last tourney that I was at, (*My first) I lost once, so if I did again, I would be out, anyway, this d00d, he was mad good, kicked my ass the first game, I just had a self talk in my head, and calmed down, whooped his ass the second time.. whoo! Then I said to myself, I can do this. The third game was CLOSE AS HELL! We both killed 2 of eachothers characters, and it ended up him winning by meir pixels of life, as time ran out.. At the end, we shook hands, and sat and watched the rest of the time. I thought I did good for the first tourney I was at, plus I was only there for the experience, and it worked out well.. Now, I wouldnt mind going and playing my hardest to see how good I am. I have improved alot during the time period where I havent been at any tourneys. I also think that I can stick the moves more consistant than before too. Like before, I would maybe get the hypergrav -> tempest combo 2/5 times, and now I get it 4.5/5 maybe even 5/5, so I dont have to worry about that anymore." reply: I think you misunderstood. I suggest reading some of Seth's latest strategy articles. He gives a few mistakes most people new to tournaments make, such as not getting a move to come out, and trying to predictably do it again just to make it come out. It's little things like that, that are entirely mental and have nothing to do with execution(ok, it does have to do with execution, but thats not the point ^^). The point is, when you are nervous with storm and you have meter and you and the opponent are on opposite sides not doing anything, don't just up and throw out a tornado-Hail in the hope that he will stick something out or call a helper. I see this mistake quite often against less experienced MvC2 players. Other mistakes with Mag teams I see include haphazard calling of AAA's for no good reason and the use of random supers when they can't think of anything better to do. Cables are notorious for using meter on AHVB at ridiculous times, like when Cable has 2 meters at the 80 second mark and wastes them on damaging an assist but not coming close to killing it. I've seen Cables just do it becuase they are losing when they should be trying to land that short-forward-S.roundhouse-AHVB. I've seen Cables whiff them on the descent from a superjump hoping to catch something. These are the things I mean, those mistakes inexperienced people make, even good players do it form time to time. Hope that helps. "The only thing though, how many people are going to mash my hg->tempest? Should I do it even though they might mash out of it, waste a super if they do, and go on with it? Anything else?!" reply: You have to tell me, I don't play where you do. Most people will not, generally speaking. You never have to waste a super if you DHC to storm with proper timing, the tempest will still do half its damage or so. ____________________________________________ "~Wind I have another question. Is Doom any good without Blackheart? I mean, without bh doom has no coverage for super jumping opponents right?" He has a few options for anti-air(no particular order): 1)C.fierce 2)Offensive-crouch-roundhouse 3)Kick super 4)Quick SJ above opponent into Photon array(works well, and if you do it right next to them, it does ***LOTS*** of block damage. 5)Crossup Doom can also rush down with triangle jumps, most people don't know about that but its true. Doom can handle himself vs most characters, although he needs meter vs some of the top tier to be effective. ____________________________________________ Ok guys, question: Can someone teach me UBB code? How do I do it and how do I quote people? Be specific as possible, as I only know HTML really. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I am most interested in quoting people, bold and italic fonts, and anything useful like general tips. Thanks. -Micah Posted by Templar Knight on 03:02:2001 09:48 AM: Thanks for your reply Jin, and no your not being technical . Yes I mosttly have Charlie on point and constantly call out assists (Sentinel when I'm close, Cable when on the other side of screen), he works preatty well, espessially if I corner someone and his AAA assist is a great help for both Sent and Cable. Latelly though I have been thinking of replacing him with Omega Red, since I hear he is a great battery, but his assists arnt as useful as Charlies. I just got one more question, how do you use Sent as a good battery? Fierce XX rocket punch, bomber drones, or is there a better technique? Posted by AAA on 03:02:2001 10:10 AM: I saw in a video Duc doing a ground HVB DHCIng from HoD against magneto. I was wonderind how safer it’s this. Which characters can react after eat a ground HVB? And it’s safe to do it blocked against any top tier? Posted by sabretooth on 03:02:2001 10:20 AM: I'm learning, Jin. thanks for ask. which of my teams do you think it's the overall best and why? spiral/cable/cyc storm/cable/cyc spiral/storm/cable(very little practice, but I will learn) I really like cable/cyc. is there a way to make a strong tournament strategy changing only the battery, or at least keeping cable at all my teams? I read about the counter teams you listed, and I will try to learn it step by step. so I would like to know which are the pros and cons to mix Doom or Sent with my characters above? Thank you very much Posted by achamp on 03:02:2001 10:23 AM: I read Viscant’s opinion about cable vs cable, and he saids that cable can call Cyclops when close and sj. HP, grenade. I was trying that and it seems to not work that well. First, I need to sj. grenade(there’s no time to HP or the op can AHVB my grenade) right away when I call Cyc. And even that if I do one single mistake my cyc can die, while if I do it right I just earn a little chip/meter. Can you (or fluffy) give me details about some cable vs cable scenarios? I will really appreciate it. Posted by Dasrik on 03:02:2001 12:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL: Actually, I think her best air combo was Jab, strong, forward XX short-hurricane, jab sho ou ken. It also works on almost everyone. Sad thing is, this combo does as much damage as a comboed shinkuu hadoken combo. Sakura's average damage compacity is somewhere around 60-65 points of damage, including super combos. A comboed Midare does 70 i think. Danke, Fluffy. I tried this today and it worked beautifully. More stuff about Sakura: * When to use the assist. A-Sak is actually a pretty powerful way to cover a lot of things. Rushdown strategies revolving around projectiles are totally killed by A-Sak. She can cover Spiral's sword reload while being also good to fight Spiral with. Remember, she is vulnerable for a moment at the beginning and her feet can always be hit. * Sakura's regulars to abuse are her jumping roundhouse and her standing roundhouse, both of which have massive range to keep people at bay. Stand roundhouse, in fact - the range is surprisingly large for a semi-shoto. I suggest you keep using Sakura, eventually you will find what works for you. Posted by draizen on 03:02:2001 02:59 PM: Jinmaster, mad props to you for putting all the time aside to help people out with this thread. Anyways, all the UBB Code commands etc are detailed on this link http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/ubbcode.html Later, [ d r a i z e n ] Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:02:2001 06:26 PM: 3 questions: 1. How do you think Mag/BH/Sent would be? I don't really need Psy or Cyke to sit up combos, and Mag can take care of Cable while BH/Sent takes care of annoying matches for Mags. But then again maybe the team has no focus? 2. Why Jinmaster? 3. Where is your karma(cough mods, admins, cough)? "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by Monkey on 03:02:2001 06:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: "Monkey, I suggest you learn to curb your instincts to stick shit out there when there is a lot of pressure early in your tournament career. By that, do you mean: make sure that I can do the move that I need to do, when it needs to be done?! I can 99% of the time, if thats what you are talking about.. I do play good under pressure too. The last tourney that I was at, (*My first) I lost once, so if I did again, I would be out, anyway, this d00d, he was mad good, kicked my ass the first game, I just had a self talk in my head, and calmed down, whooped his ass the second time.. whoo! Then I said to myself, I can do this. The third game was CLOSE AS HELL! We both killed 2 of eachothers characters, and it ended up him winning by meir pixels of life, as time ran out.. At the end, we shook hands, and sat and watched the rest of the time. I thought I did good for the first tourney I was at, plus I was only there for the experience, and it worked out well.. Now, I wouldnt mind going and playing my hardest to see how good I am. I have improved alot during the time period where I havent been at any tourneys. I also think that I can stick the moves more consistant than before too. Like before, I would maybe get the hypergrav -> tempest combo 2/5 times, and now I get it 4.5/5 maybe even 5/5, so I dont have to worry about that anymore." reply: I think you misunderstood. I suggest reading some of Seth's latest strategy articles. He gives a few mistakes most people new to tournaments make, such as not getting a move to come out, and trying to predictably do it again just to make it come out. It's little things like that, that are entirely mental and have nothing to do with execution(ok, it does have to do with execution, but thats not the point ^^). The point is, when you are nervous with storm and you have meter and you and the opponent are on opposite sides not doing anything, don't just up and throw out a tornado-Hail in the hope that he will stick something out or call a helper. I see this mistake quite often against less experienced MvC2 players. Other mistakes with Mag teams I see include haphazard calling of AAA's for no good reason and the use of random supers when they can't think of anything better to do. Cables are notorious for using meter on AHVB at ridiculous times, like when Cable has 2 meters at the 80 second mark and wastes them on damaging an assist but not coming close to killing it. I've seen Cables just do it becuase they are losing when they should be trying to land that short-forward-S.roundhouse-AHVB. I've seen Cables whiff them on the descent from a superjump hoping to catch something. These are the things I mean, those mistakes inexperienced people make, even good players do it form time to time. Hope that helps. "The only thing though, how many people are going to mash my hg->tempest? Should I do it even though they might mash out of it, waste a super if they do, and go on with it? Anything else?!" reply: You have to tell me, I don't play where you do. Most people will not, generally speaking. You never have to waste a super if you DHC to storm with proper timing, the tempest will still do half its damage or so. -Micah The tourney is in Philly. The last time I was there, they didnt have 360 joysticks, they just put them in not to long ago if I remember correctly. The thing is, I am used to my joystick that I got from Masssystems. It is a good joystick, just like the arcade in Philly had before. The thing that I am worried about is, how much different will I have to play with these 360 sticks? I have never played on 360's. I was talking to Justin Wong last night, and he said that they were not very loose or anything.. but I dont know if I will only have to get used to that, or is it going to be totally different from non-360 joysticks.. That is my main concern right now. What you said about I should read the columns from s-kill, I have awhile ago, and I remember reading what you were saying. I probably will read all of them again before I get there on Sunday. About the hg->tempest issue: I just learned a new combo with Magneto that uses the Shockwave, and it takes the same amount of damage (almost) that the tempest combo (one super) takes. I'm happy about that, and I was working on it all last night, so I have it like 90%. What I think I might do is, test the other player to see if they can get out of the tempest combo, and if they dont, I'll keep doing it, and if they do, I'll do my new combo and catch them off gaurd. Hopefully that will work. I was talking to Vincint last night also, and he said make sure that you stick with your gameplan. Don't let the other person change the way you play. If you want to run, do so, and if you want to attack, do so. He game me some more tips that helped, and I think that I'll be prepared for this tourney. I'm going to get there earily, before alot of people are there hopefully, and I'll just play to get used to the joysticks. Hopefully I will have enough time to get used to them. That is my only concern, so if you have played on 360 sticks, please give me your input.. Peace -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/chipptag.gif Posted by Jin1 on 03:02:2001 07:01 PM: JinMaster, What is the team you regularly pick? Is Jn one of them? In my arcade I'm the only that picks Jin. I'm very good using him and I win 50 percent of the time. Mt teams change all the time but Jin is always there. Right now my team is Iron man, Jin, and BH. Do you have a tips on Jin so I could be an even better player with Jin? Posted by Leviathan on 03:02:2001 09:02 PM: I want to learn a team with; 1) Tron Bonne on point. (could be Strider instead, but would MUCH rather use Tron) 2) Someone with a pressuring, forward assist (ie. Doom/Storm/Sent etc.) to help out T.Bonne's offense. 3) Someone with a high reaching AAA (ie. CapCom/BH) I kind of like TB/Doom/BH because I can trap after TB dies, but I think Storm would be more flexible, and since I'm only gonna learn only a few higher tier chars, I wan't them to be able to take on as many teams as possible. Can Storm trap with BH? I would love any team tips and any strats/combos for any of the members of the teams, thanks ~ Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 09:55 PM: "Templar Knight, I just got one more question, how do you use Sent as a good battery? Fierce XX rocket punch, bomber drones, or is there a better technique?" Basically, you are just using him to build meter by not doing his HSF-fierce trap and just playing normally. You can trap wtih assists, but without HSF it's not solid. You will have to know how to fight in close with Setinel, and how to fly cancel his moves. Again, I suggest downloading some of the SHGl vids that have Setinel users in them. It's very educational. If all else fails, fyling around with his kicks and calling assists usually works as a means to build meter. ____________________________________________ "AAA I saw in a video Duc doing a ground HVB DHCIng from HoD against magneto. I was wonderind how safer it’s this. Which characters can react after eat a ground HVB? And it’s safe to do it blocked against any top tier?" As far as people eat the beam, the only character I know of that is fast enough to jack you is Cable, but if the grounded HVB'er happens to have you near the corner and you land next to Cable, anyone with a fast enough move might be able to get Cable. From half-screen, I think Duc's move was pretty safe. As far as blocking a ground hyper viper beam, many many characters can hurt Cable afterwards. Mag can dash in. Doom can electric cage. Storm can lightning attack XX lightning-storm. Cable can AHVB. BH can HOD. Commando can kick super. I think ryu can Shinku. Cyclops can optic blast XX SOB. Etc. ____________________________________________ "Sabretooth, which of my teams do you think it's the overall best and why? spiral/cable/cyc storm/cable/cyc spiral/storm/cable(very little practice, but I will learn)" reply: Probably Spiral/Cable/Cyke. My reasoning is that Cable/Storm/AAA is weak vs Spiral. So we throw out the second team. As for the third team, it will have a slight advantage during the spiral fight for meters, but it will be at a disadvantage during the Cable/Cable fight due to cyclops assist. I think the Cable fight is more important, becuase Spiral can eat knives or throw knives and still fill meter for Cable either way. "I really like cable/cyc. is there a way to make a strong tournament strategy changing only the battery, or at least keeping cable at all my teams?" Yes, you can use any battery you want, if you know what you are doing. Some batteries are better than others, and Spiral fits the team dynamic becuase she is a good battery and a strong chipper as an assist. She also lets cable switch in for free with 4-knife into switch, and Cable can use her for a 5xAHVB + 5xSpiral-assist for near 50% chip. "I read about the counter teams you listed, and I will try to learn it step by step. so I would like to know which are the pros and cons to mix Doom or Sent with my characters above? Thank you very much" reply: Do you mean as a battery for Cable/Cyke? I think Doom is a bad idea, becuase vs other spirals, he cannot do definitive damage without having storm second to stop teleports. Setinel will also have a hard time vs Spiral teams becuase Cable-AAA and Cyke-AAA can't help him vs Spiral as much as BH and storm can. Even if you switch to Cable-projeticle, the fight is still bad. If I misunderstood your question, let me know. ___________________________________________ "Achamp, I read Viscant’s opinion about cable vs cable, and he saids that cable can call Cyclops when close and sj. HP, grenade. I was trying that and it seems to not work that well. First, I need to sj. grenade(there’s no time to HP or the op can AHVB my grenade) right away when I call Cyc. And even that if I do one single mistake my cyc can die, while if I do it right I just earn a little chip/meter. Can you (or fluffy) give me details about some cable vs cable scenarios? I will really appreciate it." reply: You have to call cyclops and superjump immediately, meaning you hit down and call cyke just as you are about to superjump. If you did it right, you should be able to fierce/gernade. The point isn't for the fierce to come out, the point is to cancel into a gernade fast enough to make it hit or pressure the lower Cable. You still get meter from the fierce. Then you have control and you can do it again, or try something else. The most important thing when fighting Cable vs Cable is to be ready to AHVB the mistakes your opponent makes. Some guys will hit jab just before they land from a superjump, some people will toss gernades or j.fierce predictably. My advice is, that if you have 4 meters or more, don't even risk sticking out a jab. Don't call helpers unless you know that you have considered the following criteria: 1)Can a DHC from Cable's AHVB into his neext few characters still kill my helper even if I super-jump over the AHVB? Can he DHC safely to kill that helper and not leave himeslf open to AHVB? 2)If I call an assist, and he has enough meter to kill it, I will make sure to only call when I can cross up and I know he cannot kill it, or I will AHVB myself to cover it. There are other things to Cable vs Cable, that take practice: 1)Counter-gaurdbreak: AHVB after your block ends from the bullet. 2)Counter AHVB, if he's killing your assist but he didn't make you block the beam when his AHVB eneded, you can AHVB yourself, and you will either beat the other Cable before he gets his out, or you will trade and your helper lives. The other things to consider are Cable's throws and his abilioty to land his shorts and roundhouses. Be ready to throw and tech, but more importantly, don't get hit by short. Last thing of note, quasi-traps are acceptable. If you want to do a round of S.fierceX4, Call spiral assist, short gernade, you can get away with it for at least one rotation and super-jump out. I wouldn't do more than one, depending on who I'm playing against(player-wise), but doing the trap one time at an unpredictable moment is generally fine. ____________________________________________ "Draizen, Jinmaster, mad props to you for putting all the time aside to help people out with this thread. Anyways, all the UBB Code commands etc are detailed on this link http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/ubbcode.html" reply: Thanks a lot, I'll check it out. ____________________________________________ "DarthSalamander, 3 questions: 1. How do you think Mag/BH/Sent would be? I don't really need Psy or Cyke to sit up combos, and Mag can take care of Cable while BH/Sent takes care of annoying matches for Mags. But then again maybe the team has no focus?" reply: I know the team works, simply becuase Magneto is not a meter hog and Setinel/BH is solid and both assists help him rush down and fight against spiral. Your team is good, you just need to put Sentinel second. I suggest you don't do hyper-grav combos against players that can mash out of them, but if you should land one, you should probably DHC to hyper-sentinel-force for a good follow-up. Watch out for strider/doom/commando. =) "2. Why Jinmaster?" I first started posting on the internet about 4-5 years ago when MvC1 came out. I knew Jin was my favorite charcter, back when I was not a serious player. I went by another name, but I asked the forum community at Mig's message baord if "Jin" was taken. They said some guy used to be Jin, but he was gone. So I took the name Jin. That wasn't good enough for me though, as there were literally thousands of Jin handles all over the internet, expecially when it comes to Starcraft. I figured that I'd make myself stand out by claiming to be the master of Jin. Very few people have taken my name, and I've made a memorable name for myself both in the Starcraft community and the SF one. It's too bad that I'm nothing compared to top Starcraft players, but I'm actually something in the SF community. I guess if I gave up my job and my girlfriend, I could master SC, but it wouldn't matter unless I moved to Korea. =P Besides, I like my GF. Long story short, I'm jinmaster@hotmail.com, I'm jinmaster in SF, I'm Jinmaster in Starcraft, I'm jinmaster when I play Quake, I'm jinmaster at Tripod and I'm therealjinmaster at Geocities. So people know me as Jin online in many places, and most people know that Jin = Micah in the arcades I play in. "3. Where is your karma(cough mods, admins, cough)?" reply: I wish I knew. I know of about 15-20 people right off the top of my head that really deserve positive Karma. Any mod can search on their names and get evidence. Oh well. ____________________________________________ "Monkey, The tourney is in Philly. The last time I was there, they didnt have 360 joysticks, they just put them in not to long ago if I remember correctly. The thing is, I am used to my joystick that I got from Masssystems. It is a good joystick, just like the arcade in Philly had before. The thing that I am worried about is, how much different will I have to play with these 360 sticks? I have never played on 360's. I was talking to Justin Wong last night, and he said that they were not very loose or anything.. but I dont know if I will only have to get used to that, or is it going to be totally different from non-360 joysticks.. That is my main concern right now." reply: Sorry, I'm not sure if I have. Fluffy would know if I have, but I don't know too much about the different sticks out there. I just know that I like the Mass sticks. =) "What you said about I should read the columns from s-kill, I have awhile ago, and I remember reading what you were saying. I probably will read all of them again before I get there on Sunday. About the hg->tempest issue: I just learned a new combo with Magneto that uses the Shockwave, and it takes the same amount of damage (almost) that the tempest combo (one super) takes. I'm happy about that, and I was working on it all last night, so I have it like 90%. What I think I might do is, test the other player to see if they can get out of the tempest combo, and if they dont, I'll keep doing it, and if they do, I'll do my new combo and catch them off gaurd. Hopefully that will work." reply: I don't know of any shockwave combos that do good damage, I think it may be a waste of a metersince you can do a very long AC that will do compartive damage. If you have some secret you want to hide from your competition, you can mail me at jinmaster@hotmail.com and I'll give you my private opinion on it. "I was talking to Vincint last night also, and he said make sure that you stick with your gameplan. Don't let the other person change the way you play. If you want to run, do so, and if you want to attack, do so. He game me some more tips that helped, and I think that I'll be prepared for this tourney." Viscant gives excellent advice, he has not given me any reason to not listen to him in all the time I've kown him. His only weaknes is that he will not alter his style to play the overused teams. Sometimes, the over-used teams are the right ones for the job. That's just my opinion though. I owe a lot of my success and my game to Viscant, I can say its a fact that I would not know this game very well without listening to him. "I'm going to get there earily, before alot of people are there hopefully, and I'll just play to get used to the joysticks. Hopefully I will have enough time to get used to them. That is my only concern, so if you have played on 360 sticks, please give me your input.. Peace" reply: Sorry, maybe Fluffy can be of mroe help here. Ask him, I think he played on this sticks in Philly himself. Just know that people on the East play a lot of Magneto, so I'm sure a lot of players will be mashing out. ____________________________________________ "Jin1, JinMaster, What is the team you regularly pick? Is Jn one of them? In my arcade I'm the only that picks Jin. I'm very good using him and I win 50 percent of the time. Mt teams change all the time but Jin is always there. Right now my team is Iron man, Jin, and BH. Do you have a tips on Jin so I could be an even better player with Jin?" One page back I gave what I know about Jin in MvC2. I think he only belongs on counter teams, usually vs Strider/Doom or Magneto. I dislike him as a point character, so I only pick him for his assist. I would like Jin to be top tier, but it'll never happen I'm afraid. Sorry I can't be of more help... Well, I think I forgot to mention one thing a page back, if you hit a helper with a blodia-punch, teh punch will hit the main character if it's in the way. There are a few supers in the game have this attribute. ____________________________________________ "Leviathan, I want to learn a team with; 1) Tron Bonne on point. (could be Strider instead, but would MUCH rather use Tron) 2) Someone with a pressuring, forward assist (ie. Doom/Storm/Sent etc.) to help out T.Bonne's offense. 3) Someone with a high reaching AAA (ie. CapCom/BH) I kind of like TB/Doom/BH because I can trap after TB dies, but I think Storm would be more flexible, and since I'm only gonna learn only a few higher tier chars, I wan't them to be able to take on as many teams as possible." reply: If you want a team to be as versatile as possibel and still have Tron on it, I suggest putting her in back with her projectile(gamma) assist. Please search through this thread where someone asked me what I thought of Tron. I posted what I know about her and how I think she should be played. The team you mentioned is going to have a hard time with any Cable team, I'm afraid. "Can Storm trap with BH? I would love any team tips and any strats/combos for any of the members of the teams, thanks ~" Storm can kind of trap by calling bh and doing vertical typhoons. What I used to do was fly with storm, call BH, thow vertical typhoons over and over all while mashing the BH assist button. It works to a degree, just don't do it all the time. Storm has never been known for her trapping ability. =) As for combos, you can find those for just about any character at http://www.gamefaqs.com and http://www.gamecombos.com ____________________________________________ Ok guys, we are reaching the point where I'm getting some repeat questions. If you are new to the thread, please read through the whole thread to see if your question had been answered. You'll likely learn a few things as you do so. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-02-2001).] Posted by Monkey on 03:02:2001 10:07 PM: quote: insert jin's long ass post here.. I emailed you, check it! -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/magmonkey.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 10:21 PM: Monkey, I mailed your school account. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:02:2001 10:25 PM: Monkey, I'd also mention that the only time I personally use shockwave is to DHC quickly to storm and jack a helper in the process. -Micah Posted by Monkey on 03:02:2001 10:30 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Monkey, I mailed your school account. -Micah Not school accound...hotmail account.. anyway, I replied back. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/magmonkey.gif Posted by Monkey on 03:02:2001 10:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Monkey, I'd also mention that the only time I personally use shockwave is to DHC quickly to storm and jack a helper in the process. -Micah Yes, I have been doing that, especially when Mag is almost dead.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/magmonkey.gif Posted by StarFire on 03:03:2001 12:08 AM: How do you play Captain Commando on point? I've been trying him a lot lately especially find his assist to be extremely abusable and useful mainly for the fact of the amount of damage it deals. While he won't be part of my main teams for tournaments I find that he is a great counter character for many teams that I have trouble against. But whenever I have CapCom out be it snapback or as my last character, I have the worst time playing him. What combos should I use with him and exactly how should I play him? I know that's probably a lot to explain but I can use any info I can get. Also, how do you OTG after his super (QCF + KK) since I know I've seen it but just can't do it myself. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:03:2001 12:46 AM: Monkey, I mailed you an additional time at hotmail. Everyone, I figured I'd explain what I mean when I give a premise for a team strat. Example: Battery/DHC-to|User/Primary-assist An example of this would be: Doom-B/Storm-A/Cyclops-B The point of this team is to trap with Doom/Storm and use Cyclops as your primary anti-air assist. Storm won't mget hurt becuase you are doing the trap from full screen. When you have meter(Doom is the BATTERY), Storm will be "DHC-to|User", meaning you will try to land photon shcoks on the opponent with the battery character and DHC-to Storm who is also the User. She will control the rest of the match, either by running or using typhoon XX hails, with Cyke for AAA. If Storm dies, you have doom, unless he died as an assist. Then you are left with just Cyclops. The Primary-assist is only used for an assist, and is typically played alone with no helpers. ___________________________ Example#2: Battery/DHC-to/User An example of this would be: Spiral-A/Storm-A/Cable-B Spiral is the battery, for Cable, who is the user. You safe switch to Cable, and you now have the Cable/Storm combo ready. As a side benifit, you can play cable till he dies and Storm till she dies, giving your original point character(spiral) maximum time to heal and not be killed since she is third. Anohter side benefit is that Spiral cannot be guard-broken. So these are the two basic ways to orgainize your teams, there are others, but this is generally how I can take 3 characters and for a strategy. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:03:2001 01:13 AM: Starfire, "How do you play Captain Commando on point? I've been trying him a lot lately especially find his assist to be extremely abusable and useful mainly for the fact of the amount of damage it deals. While he won't be part of my main teams for tournaments I find that he is a great counter character for many teams that I have trouble against." reply: That's exactly what he is used for, counters. =) "But whenever I have CapCom out be it snapback or as my last character, I have the worst time playing him. What combos should I use with him and exactly how should I play him? I know that's probably a lot to explain but I can use any info I can get. Also, how do you OTG after his super (QCF + KK) since I know I've seen it but just can't do it myself." reply: First, I'm not aware of any OTG combos involving the kick super. I suggest comboing it off the C.fierce. Ok, now for strategy, the most damaging combo I know which happens to be insanely difficult to do is jumping roundhouse, crouching fierce, fierce-flame XX captain sword. I'd skip the captain sword outside of the corner, becuase it really is difficult to time properly wihtout them being able to roll. Generally speaking, Commando fights best when he has some kind of assit alive, such as setinel or BH. Calling assists and doing his fire-kick move is a good way to cross up and pressur ethe opponent. Anohter good way to do chip damage is to call your assist and make them block a lot of ninjas. As for S.roundhouse into captain sword, never ever try it. The RH has horrible range even thoough it looks like a good launcher. I suggest doing a jab or fierce corridor in every situation you would do a launcher in, and canceling into a captain sword. Kill helpers in this manner. Hope that helps. -Micah Posted by Dr. Deelite on 03:03:2001 01:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by StarFire: Also, how do you OTG after his super (QCF + KK) since I know I've seen it but just can't do it myself. Since Jin didn't field this one, I will. After landing a Captain Storm, the instant CapCom stops posing with Babyhead and Sho and Ginsu, stick out a low short and it will pop them up. Then you can do a standing roundhouse to launch, and then land a Captain Sword for flash, or super jump and AC. EDIT - BTW, this is dependent on them landing next to CapCom after the super. Sometimes they're too far away. Also, while they can't roll, they can get up faster by mashing, thus avoiding your OTG attempt. [This message has been edited by Dr. Deelite (edited 03-02-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:03:2001 01:48 AM: Oops, I read that wrong. I thought he said OTG into a QCF+KK. My bad. I gotta tell ya, this thread is 140 posts long in under a week. My head gets tired. =) Sorry for my mistake. =) -Micah Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:03:2001 02:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Sorry, maybe Fluffy can be of mroe help here. Ask him, I think he played on this sticks in Philly himself. Just know that people on the East play a lot of Magneto, so I'm sure a lot of players will be mashing out If they haven't changed, this sticks are very loose 8-way sticks. Octagon shaped, not cirlular. It is very hard to do 360s and Dp motions on those sticks if you're not familiar with them IMO. However, it makes for easy mashing. Loose sticks = very mashable. Just don't play Strider/Doom and you should be fine. Contrary to what Jin said, EC doesn't play a lot of Magneto, just a few. EC is more known for Strider/Doom (CTF, although I don't know if they play it still) and Sent/Bh (philly). There is also a lot of variety in their teams, i'd wager to say a bit moreso than in Cali, but EC isn't heavy on Spiral or magneto/Storm like Cali is. quote: Originally posted by StarFire: How do you play Captain Commando on point? I've been trying him a lot lately especially find his assist to be extremely abusable and useful mainly for the fact of the amount of damage it deals. While he won't be part of my main teams for tournaments I find that he is a great counter character for many teams that I have trouble against. But whenever I have CapCom out be it snapback or as my last character, I have the worst time playing him. What combos should I use with him and exactly how should I play him? I know that's probably a lot to explain but I can use any info I can get. Also, how do you OTG after his super (QCF + KK) since I know I've seen it but just can't do it myself. You basically want to try to rushdown. I know it soudns bad, but hopefully you'll still have a good assist alive, like Sentinel Gound assist. So you can dash forward with S.Short -> S.Forward (call Sent) XX Ginsu assist (QCF+Short). then, dash forward and do it again, or dash forward and try to tick throw. You can also try to keepaway with assists, captain fire, Mack the knife assist, and corridor. But, this doesn't work on all charcters, in fact someone like cable will eat it up. Sometimes, you get matches that are just bad for you, like Cable w/AAA. That's just not good for commando. Commando can take over matches against Blackheart and Sentinel though, mainly do to Corridor XX Sword. Blackheart has three attacks on the ground that won't get corridored, Jab, short, and forward. Everything else (given you're within range) will get Corridored. Sentinel has similar issues, as long as you can force your way into him, which can be hard unless you have the right assists. Also, Captain Storm is still useful to go through energy projectiles, but not solid ones. Just practice a bit to see what you can/cannot beat with Commando and make a note of that. -- Fluffy Posted by yellow press on 03:03:2001 03:28 AM: thanxs for the help Jin Posted by ~Wind on 03:03:2001 05:51 AM: WHat are good assists for magneto? Posted by Juggrknott on 03:03:2001 09:52 AM: Nice help thread. Stuff like this really helps the boards....thanks.... -Jugg Posted by Truedragon on 03:03:2001 10:21 AM: First of all great job keeping this topic up and helping people. My topic isn't about MvsC2 it's about CvsS, in an earlier topic(that died) you mentioned that you have been using Nelson's Ex Guile strats and been doing very well against good comp. Well if you or Nelson wouldn't mind could you share them with me. Thanx. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:03:2001 10:07 PM: ____________________________________________ Yellow Press, You're welcome, I hope I can be of future help. ____________________________________________ "~Wind, What are good assists for magneto?" reply: Well, you only have to choose between capture and projectile. Launcher is useless. I think projectile is his most useful one, but you can involve capture in some combos and is more useful in certain situations. ____________________________________________ Juggrknott, Thanks for the compliment. I do appreciate it. ____________________________________________ "TrueDragon, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all great job keeping this topic up and helping people. My topic isn't about MvsC2 it's about CvsS, in an earlier topic(that died) you mentioned that you have been using Nelson's Ex Guile strats and been doing very well against good comp. Well if you or Nelson wouldn't mind could you share them with me. Thanx." I'd hardly call myself an expert or anywhere near Nelson's level, but generally it goes like this: Turtle a lot, instead of dashing forward after a sonic boom, use back and roundhouse. Sometimes do it twice. Use 2 crounching strongs to stop rolling. Forward for distance. Flashkicks to stop all moves, just about. It's hard to explain, it's a mixture of all my past experiences put together, and fially one character in CvS offers me the priority I need to win consistently. Guile has got to be #1 or #2, hands down. I think other people in this forum are more qualified to give you hardcore advice though. -Micah Posted by Dasrik on 03:03:2001 11:02 PM: quote: reply: Well, you only have to choose between capture and projectile. Launcher is useless. Launcher is way NOT useless. :-P Magneto's launcher, like all launcher assists (with the expection of Jin, who has no speed or range) can be used as a quasi-AAA. If you're feeling the pressure and have a character with a substandard launcher, use Y-Magneto to combat rushdown, and then follow up with an air combo. In my opinion, Y-Magneto assist makes Colossus that much more playable. Also, you get a counter into eternal tempest ACs, or canceled right into EMD. You can't beat that with a stick. :-P B-Magneto is the rather pointless one for me. It's too slow to fight rushdown and doesn't have enough range to beat keepaway. And even if he catches you, all you can really do is launch or a straight super. Y-Mags has been totally underrated. The problem here is I don't use Fagneto. :-P Posted by StarFire on 03:03:2001 11:05 PM: Hey thanx again for your help. It's actually helping a lot. Couple more questions: 1. After you have just killed one of your oponents characters with Spiral, is it safe to dash up to them and do a ring of swords into level 3 metamorphasis? 2. Also is it safe to attempt 2 of Spiral's command throws in a combo (air combo, grapple up, grapple)? 3. And also I already know Spiral's safe tag of four blocked ground swords to switch in, but I can't ever friggin' do it. This is holding me back a lot. Does distance or how fast you throw the swords matter? I don't know why but I really cant seem to always do this. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:04:2001 12:20 AM: Dasrik, I had always been under the impression that all launcher assists where useless. I mean, why bother with it when all mag teams have a good AAA like Cyclops or Psylocke who also have good variable-switches? I've been playing Mag a lot lately, but I will give you the benifit of the doubt and try his launcher assist out a bit. ____________________________________________ "Starfire, Hey thanx again for your help. It's actually helping a lot. Couple more questions: 1. After you have just killed one of your oponents characters with Spiral, is it safe to dash up to them and do a ring of swords into level 3 metamorphasis?" reply: Is it safe? Yes. Is it going to work? Depends. I think it's pretty good, becuase I can do it 80% of the time vs most people. It actually depends on what they try to do. Just throw the jumping circle knife XX meta and land and time a jumping jab-meta-grab. "2. Also is it safe to attempt 2 of Spiral's command throws in a combo (air combo, grapple up, grapple)?" reply: It depends on: #1 Who you are fighting against(air dashing charcters are a no-no) #2 How close you are to the top of the screen.(if you are not high enough, they can hold a direction and miss/hit you. "3. And also I already know Spiral's safe tag of four blocked ground swords to switch in, but I can't ever friggin' do it. This is holding me back a lot. Does distance or how fast you throw the swords matter? I don't know why but I really cant seem to always do this." reply: I also have had trouble with it, but Fluffy showed me they way to do it perfect: Jab, jab, jab, jab, mash jab+short.(switch-to is next in line). IMPORTANT:Be full screen. Mashing makes more knives fly out before you actually switch, for some reason. -Micah Posted by Monkey on 03:04:2001 04:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Insert long-ass post here.. Yo, I'm pissed as hells! There is going to be a big ass snow storm comming, and now I cant goto the tourney this weekend because of this. My ma already canceled the hotel, and I wont be able to go now.. grr@her anyway, thanks for all your help, and if I have anymore questions I'll have to hit you up wit them.. Peace -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/magmonkey.gif Posted by yellow press on 03:04:2001 04:59 AM: hi Jinmaster are there any strats for cable and ironman? also who else would go well with theme? (i was thinking Blackhart) thanxs for that doom and blackhart help it helped alot Posted by Dr. Deelite on 03:04:2001 05:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by yellow press: hi Jinmaster are there any strats for cable and ironman? also who else would go well with theme? (i was thinking Blackhart) thanxs for that doom and blackhart help it helped alot Cable is pretty elementary. As for Iron Man, there are literally dozens of threads on past pages in this very section of the forum dedicated to his helmeted countenance. You might search for those. Posted by Monkey on 03:04:2001 04:18 PM: What happened to your topic, its all the way at the bottom.. It was anyway.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/monkeygoku.gif Posted by Jonstar! on 03:04:2001 10:10 PM: Jin, Whenever I get trapped, I have trouble gettin away from it. The reason for that is because whenever I air jump, btw, i use Mags/Cable/Cyc or IM/Cable/Psylocke, I always get hit by BH's AAA. So my problem right now is, gettin away from BH, he always seems to bring me right back down and I have trouble doing my usual things, like rushdowns and pullin off my infinites. I can never seem to get away from the Sent/BH trap. Any ideas? Thanks -jon Posted by Overkill on 03:04:2001 11:28 PM: i am having trouble keeping my storm off the screen when i'm doing vert typhoons, i know i am supposed to just air dash up but alot of times she falls down and i am holding the stick up if you wondering if that's my problem, not a big problem but if you have time please give me a reply, and also whenever i lightning attack off the screen she always falls down too, thanx for the time scat scat tat tat Posted by Truedragon on 03:05:2001 12:55 AM: Thanks for helping me man. http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/truedragon.gif The True Dragon has spoken Posted by AAA on 03:05:2001 09:36 AM: I read that cammy bounces off of special moves. Knowing this, I was wondering if there's a way to stop cammy's assist for beating mine. My opponents usually play mag,storm or cable. Posted by hayato15 on 03:05:2001 09:40 AM: Wouldn't battery/cable/psylocke be a great strider/doom/whatever counter? Psylocke hits once and cable can snapback doom in, then cable can do a GB killing doom and letting the other team with only strider/commando, a weak combination. What do you think about this? Posted by ss on 03:05:2001 09:41 AM: What's the best ways to avoid commando assist with rushdown and runaway storm(using aaa too)? It's possible to avoid commando assist using the air dash, like BH's one(without predict, just air dash when the assist icon appears)? Posted by wm on 03:05:2001 09:44 AM: Can you give me a detailed explanation of how to fight against sent/bh/commando using storm/cable/cyc or spiral/cable/cyc? Posted by powerful on 03:05:2001 09:46 AM: I read this on the beginning of norcal teaches thread "also working meta with cable sjumping grenade, j. pop grenade, assist, repeat" The assist was storm A, I think. Do you know how it works? Or any cable/storm trap that you recommend? Posted by thanos on 03:05:2001 09:57 AM: I know it's possible to AHVB magneto's EM disruptor. But if he does it very close to the ground this will not make the landing animation cancel the lag, which makes the move safe from AHVBs? Posted by achamp on 03:05:2001 10:09 AM: It's safe(and good) to cable try to do ground HPs against a full screen Storm? Posted by Slowbro on 03:05:2001 11:05 AM: Jin Master: Can U give me a few combos and ways to add Hyper's in them for my team of Cyclops, Akuma, Sakura Or can u suggest a better team? thanks PS: THIS is my Dreamcast team! [This message has been edited by Slowbro (edited 03-04-2001).] Posted by sabretooth on 03:05:2001 11:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: "Sabretooth, "I read about the counter teams you listed, and I will try to learn it step by step. so I would like to know which are the pros and cons to mix Doom or Sent with my characters above? Thank you very much" reply: Do you mean as a battery for Cable/Cyke? I think Doom is a bad idea, becuase vs other spirals, he cannot do definitive damage without having storm second to stop teleports. Setinel will also have a hard time vs Spiral teams becuase Cable-AAA and Cyke-AAA can't help him vs Spiral as much as BH and storm can. Even if you switch to Cable-projeticle, the fight is still bad. If I misunderstood your question, let me know. I will let you know I mean at any position. I know that spiral/cable/sent it's a good combination to use sent, for example. So I want a duo with two of this 4(spiral, cable, cyc and storm, always better with one being cable ) and sent or doom at any position do you think it will be better. Right now, I'm thinking of spiral/cable/sent(because I know you experts use it) ,doom/storm/cable and maybe sent/cable/cyc. I would like to know which suggestions can you gave me, and it will probably be better to use one of them as an anchor, so I can use most my already mastered(I wish) characters. But keep in mind that I need a team to beat teams that my usual combinations(spiral,cable,cyc storm,cable,cyc spiral,storm,cable) can't beat. If the team has very similar characteristics to one of the three above, I think I don't need to learn it from now. To be short, I need some counter teams. Thank you very much for all the support you've been giving to me(fluffy too) and I hope this thread breaks all srk records. and mods: give some karma to the guy, who deserves more than him? Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:05:2001 11:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by AAA: I read that cammy bounces off of special moves. Knowing this, I was wondering if there's a way to stop cammy's assist for beating mine. My opponents usually play mag,storm or cable. There is no way to beat it. Even Ken assist and another Cammy assist will go through each other. My best advice is to just be cautious and wait till cammy assist comes out before you do your assist. Then, call your assist as she's landing. Just make sure you cover it and don't leave it to hang out to dry. quote: Originally posted by hayato15: Wouldn't battery/cable/psylocke be a great strider/doom/whatever counter? Psylocke hits once and cable can snapback doom in, then cable can do a GB killing doom and letting the other team with only strider/commando, a weak combination. What do you think about this? If this team works for you, then use it. Psylocke assist will hit Doom assist out of the way, but you won't likely get to do it if the Strider is competent and teleports a lot to save Doom from hurt. You still have to maintain your distance with Cable against Strider. And by all means, use snapbacks. They are so good. If you ever hit two characters at once, you get a free infinite. quote: Originally posted by ss: What's the best ways to avoid commando assist with rushdown and runaway storm(using aaa too)? It's possible to avoid commando assist using the air dash, like BH's one(without predict, just air dash when the assist icon appears)? You can't "avoid" Commando assist with runaway Storm. If you try, you'll more or less have to block it or get hit. With rushdown, time it so you cross over with an air dash past commando while calling your helper so it will hit, then you land behind the active and continue rushdown. You can use cross-overs as a way to dodge, and then triangle jumps as a way to force an opening. You do in a way have to predict air dashing past commmando, but at the same time, assume your opponent would use it whenever it would halt your progress. So, if you triangle jump once, and look like your'e going to do it again, air dash past istead. More than likely, you will sail over Commando and will be on the other side of the opponent, so continue rushing. Just be wary when Commando lands and can be called again. quote: Originally posted by thanos: I know it's possible to AHVB magneto's EM disruptor. But if he does it very close to the ground this will not make the landing animation cancel the lag, which makes the move safe from AHVBs? Umm, dont' really know what your asking, but you can actually AHVB upon seeing this move if you're really quick, or you can just jump it and AHVB. It's not safe against Cable. Besides, Mags should always be trying to rushdown Cable unless he has a serious lead, in which he'd be SJing and running away. quote: Originally posted by sabretooth: I mean at any position. I know that spiral/cable/sent it's a good combination to use sent, for example. So I want a duo with two of this 4(spiral, cable, cyc and storm, always better with one being cable ) and sent or doom at any position do you think it will be better. Right now, I'm thinking of spiral/cable/sent(because I know you experts use it) ,doom/storm/cable and maybe sent/cable/cyc. I would like to know which suggestions can you gave me, and it will probably be better to use one of them as an anchor, so I can use most my already mastered(I wish) characters. But keep in mind that I need a team to beat teams that my usual combinations(spiral,cable,cyc storm,cable,cyc spiral,storm,cable) can't beat. If the team has very similar characteristics to one of the three above, I think I don't need to learn it from now. To be short, I need some counter teams. Ok, this is (IMO) the list of characters you need to be competitive. Cable, Storm, Spiral, Sentinel. These are the must know characters. With those, you can beat Sentinel and Blackheart (cable) and you have a decent chance against Spiral (cable/storm/sent) and can beat Magneto (spiral/???/sent). Supplementing that, you can use Cyclops and Blackheart to make your other fights easier. There are others you could use, like Psylocke, Cammy, or Commando, but those are more of a personal preference. You can also use Magneto, Strider, Doom, and the whole host of 2nd tier characters that have their own good and bad matches vs top tier. It's all a matter of choice. But, the one trend you do see with a lot of tourney results, is the presence of Spiral, Storm, Cable, and Sentinel. I hope this sheds some light. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations [This message has been edited by FluffyXXL (edited 03-05-2001).] Posted by Kouryuken on 03:05:2001 01:09 PM: I'm completely knew to this, or fighting games for that matter, so please take me lightly... First: What's AAA? Or Battery? And what would be a good starting team? I've never been able to beat the game in the arcade so how did you beat it your first time? I've been practicing almost EVERY day, with Cable, Cyclops and Omega Red. Do you suggest any teams for a started? And what are your favorite combo's to do with that team? I pretty much just want a good starting strategy untill I get this game on DC, I want to practice a lot, but I'm totally new to it and I have no chance to mess around in the arcade cuz someone always comes in to kill me when I'm trying to beat the game... Sorry if that didn't make sense... it's kinda late. Posted by Bruton on 03:05:2001 02:38 PM: Hey Micah/Lloyd, Could I please get some help and opinion on Spiral/B-Doom? I see a lot of potential in these two, with a quasi-Strider/Doom trap. Spiral chips okay with the six knives(even if only a few hit), but it's too slow for my tastes and giving people time to think and escape using other space-controlling assists which don't chip isn't a positive thing for me. I don't like Strider as much as he can't maneuver as well as Spiral and she basically builds meter for free IMO, which is meter to be used very nicely for chipping or killing by Doom, Cable, Storm etc. Can these two(Spiral/Doom) work well enough to lock people down for two cycles(I tend to hold them with S.FP and reload while Doom's hitting or teleport or SJ when I can and reload) or so and can they get in on the higher level teams(Cable/Storm mainly)? And what third character do you recommend? I'd like Storm, Cable, Iron Man, Sentinel, BH or Iceman there, but I'm not too fond of immediate anti-air assists unless it's Cable. Ideally, I'd like to be able to trap from both far away and up close(no immediate anti-air) with the one team, where the far away trapping is used to hold them there so that I can get in and chip with Doom, although I'm leaning towards having Cable(since he is so great) or Iron Man(Spiral Gamma holds them long enough to J.U.RK, infinite and A1/A2 doesn't make them block when comboed). Also, what is your opinion on the triple jump characters Chun Li and Psylocke? I like the ability to call helpers on the third jump(as it makes it easier to avoid both your characters getting hit by an AHVB and you have great retaliation, but I'm not sure how this functions at higher level play(for instance, does Psylocke with Ken assist work or just annoy). Don't suggest Magneto in any of these teams please, because I'm really quite ashamed by my Magneto. =) -Bruton Posted by Fraptree on 03:05:2001 03:05 PM: JinMaster or any one who can offer advice.. I don't play MvC2. Much to fast for me. My Brother and I play TekkenTag. But my Brother is catching on quite well on MvC2. Becoming one of the better keep away players. We have a list called the Big eight. 1.Cable 2.Sentinel 3.Dr. Doom 4.Magneto 5.Cyclops 6.Storm 7.Spiral 8.Blackheart These being the eight with which you can switch numerous teams and be able to contend with others. My questions would be of these eight? Which three should not be picked as a team(s). Also Of the Characters Storm, Magneto, and Spiral. Which of their assists is best? Also its no question Dr.Dooms AAA is terrific, but someone said that his photon shot assist is not bad either. Is that assist legitmate or just a personal opinion of a tiny minority? Also Cable. Which assist is best? Not asking for Detail fags or any. Just a quick description. Apprectiate any reply Thanks. Posted by Shotokan on 03:05:2001 06:14 PM: Hey Jinmaster! What's up with that, man!? I thought you was a strict Tekken player? Traitor! I ain't gonna front though, I play a lot of Capcom games. Especially CVS. I got that game and I play Ryo, Blanka, Zangief, E.Honda, Sagat...basically everybody but, my favorites are Blanka, Honda, and Zangief. http://www.geocities.com/zeroalphaex/sfalpha3/artwork4/blanka.gif ------------------------- The Rage of the Wild Beast. Posted by Monkey on 03:05:2001 07:22 PM: FluffyXXL: Yo, Jin and I were talking the other day, and he said to talk to you about this.. how much different is it playing on regular joysticks (ex. MAS sticks) vs. 360 joysticks? He said that you played on 360's before, and he thought you could answer my question. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/monkeygoku.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 03:05:2001 11:35 PM: ____________________________________________ "Monkey, Yo, I'm pissed as hells! There is going to be a big ass snow storm comming, and now I cant goto the tourney this weekend because of this. My ma already canceled the hotel, and I wont be able to go now.. grr@her anyway, thanks for all your help, and if I have anymore questions I'll have to hit you up wit them.." reply: That sucks man. I feel for you. =( "What happened to your topic, its all the way at the bottom.. It was anyway.." reply: I can't post every day, so it's ok if this post leaves the page. I'm confident that my replies will spark more questions. ____________________________________________ "Yellow Press, hi Jinmaster are there any strats for cable and ironman? also who else would go well with theme? (i was thinking Blackhart) thanxs for that doom and blackhart help it helped alot" reply: Well, one of the better teams I remember that had Iron-man and Cable on it was Hiro's team of Ironman-B/Doom-B/Cable-B, with the premise of: Battery|DHC-to/Partial-user|Partial-assist/User Basically, you built meter with Ironman and chip with doom by super-jumping up and throwing smartbombs, landing with fierce and calling doom, and repeating. When you see a window, switch doom in, and land a super-photon array somehow, then DHC back to Iron-man. Battery more, and switch in Cable when it's safe. You will have a full meter Cable for the last 35-50 seconds in this manner. ____________________________________________ "Jonstar!, Jin, Whenever I get trapped, I have trouble gettin away from it. The reason for that is because whenever I air jump, btw, i use Mags/Cable/Cyc or IM/Cable/Psylocke, I always get hit by BH's AAA. So my problem right now is, gettin away from BH, he always seems to bring me right back down and I have trouble doing my usual things, like rushdowns and pullin off my infinites. I can never seem to get away from the Sent/BH trap. Any ideas?" reply: You need to super-jump and air-dash more. If you must, pick cable projectile before you jump, then BH can't come out. Otherwise, stick to hardcore rushdown, master the triangle jump: Sj up and forward, air dash with down+forward(PP), and hit short, short, land C.short(mash psylocke), C.short, psylocke hits, launch into AC. You can also do a 3-hit by going jab, short, jab on the triangle jump before you land. Blackheart will always miss you if you air dash at the right time, and most of the time you will hit him out of the way as you rush down Setinel. I wouldn' pick Iron-man against Sent-BH. Give it a try and let me know how it goes. ___________________________________________ "Overkill, i am having trouble keeping my storm off the screen when i'm doing vert typhoons, i know i am supposed to just air dash up but alot of times she falls down and i am holding the stick up if you wondering if that's my problem, not a big problem but if you have time please give me a reply, and also whenever i lightning attack off the screen she always falls down too, thanx for the time" reply: You can't do special moves unless you are on the screen, that's why. =) You have to at least have the tip of her foot showing. I suggest super jummping up, air dashing up, but do the typhoon motion earlier so she stops before she actually leaves the screen, she can float off the screen and still make the tornado, as long as she starts the move on the screen. I also suggest lightning attacking twice forward and back at the top of the screen, and use the 3rd to go off of it, hold up and mash fierce for meter. ___________________________________________ "Truedragon, Thanks for helping me man." reply: You're welcome. _________________________________________ "AAA, I read that cammy bounces off of special moves. Knowing this, I was wondering if there's a way to stop cammy's assist for beating mine. My opponents usually play mag,storm or cable." reply: Once cammy starts her AAA, she will go to the top of the screen in an invincible state until she hits something solid. You have to work around it. ___________________________________________ "Hyato15, Wouldn't battery/cable/psylocke be a great strider/doom/whatever counter? Psylocke hits once and cable can snapback doom in, then cable can do a GB killing doom and letting the other team with only strider/commando, a weak combination. What do you think about this?" reply: If it works for you, I see no problem with it. I suggest either Spiral or Storm as the battery. ____________________________________________ "SS, What's the best ways to avoid commando assist with rushdown and runaway storm(using aaa too)? It's possible to avoid commando assist using the air dash, like BH's one(without predict, just air dash when the assist icon appears)?" reply: Essentially yes, you just have to pay attention to avoid commando, but he is faster than BH so it helps to see it coming. This really only works in the air with a character with a fast air-dash. On the ground, the only thing you can really do is call a better assist or cross over them hella fast. Any invincible AAA will beat Commando assist, as well as Doom-beta assist(it hits low first so it wins). Note that the opponent cannot call Commando during a typhoon cuase the typhoon will pick up commando and you can juggle him with multiple typhoons. Just practice fighting it more, as thats the best way. ____________________________________________ "wm, Can you give me a detailed explanation of how to fight against sent/bh/commando using storm/cable/cyc or spiral/cable/cyc?" reply: Storm/Cable is a fair match. I suggest using storm for a battery by running away and throwing out fierces, making sure to dash over or around BH and commando assists. I wouldn't start Cable cuase it's too dangerous, but it is an option. I think that Cable/Storm is at a slight disadvantage here. Another option is to try rushdown with storm, using cyclops assist to knock out commando. I would safe-switch cable in via Variable-switch-AHVB when the time comes. You'll be left with 3 meters and likely have some damage done by the counter. Spiral/Cable/Cyke, I would just kill their whole team with Spiral. You will need room to call knives, but thats what cyclops is for. Start the match by calling cyclops, and calling knives. Then find an opening to do your knife trap, I'd almost suggest Cable-A for this, but Cable-AAA is so good vs an air-borne Setinel... and also against BH in general. Teleport when Setinel gets off a HSF, making sure to hold down the proper punch button. Come down with whatever. Eventually safe-switch to Cable, and that should be game. If you need more explanation, let me know. ____________________________________________ "Powerful, I read this on the beginning of norcal teaches thread "also working meta with cable sjumping grenade, j. pop grenade, assist, repeat" The assist was storm A, I think. Do you know how it works? Or any cable/storm trap that you recommend?" There are no good Cable/Storm traps, the best one I've come across is with Storm gamma, which isn't so hot. If you want to do one round of a trap, go fierce x 4, call storm, short gernade. You can also jump up and fierce(call storm), short gernade, land, fierce x 4, storm, gernade. Etc. Overall, the spiral/Cable trap is much better. ____________________________________________ "Thanos, I know it's possible to AHVB magneto's EM disruptor. But if he does it very close to the ground this will not make the landing animation cancel the lag, which makes the move safe from AHVBs?" reply: I will have to test that. I'll do it right off the ground and while close to the ground. Wait till later today when I get home and I'll let you know. ____________________________________________ "achamp, It's safe(and good) to cable try to do ground HPs against a full screen Storm?" reply: Generally yes, as long as she hasn't thrown a tornado. You also have the option of canceling any fierce into scimitar into AHVB or just a gernade, plus you can call an assist during the fierces. It's safest to do it as she is descending from a SJ and has used up most of her moves. ____________________________________________ "Slowbro, Jin Master: Can U give me a few combos and ways to add Hyper's in them for my team of Cyclops, Akuma, Sakura Or can u suggest a better team? thanks PS: THIS is my Dreamcast team!" reply: Ack, Sakura! Ut oh... well I suggest you battery for Cylops with Akuma. Akuma-C/Cyclops-B/Sakura-dash-assist premise: Battery/DHC-to|user/Primary assist Run away with akuma and throw a lot of SJ fierce fireballs or rush in with spin kicks while calling sakura or cyclops. Probably cyclops. If cyclops hits, follow up the bullet with a SJ air combo: 1 jab, roundhouse Cyclone kick for a few hits, then XX air-fireball super, at the end of it you should DHC to cyclops. If you are good at aiming and mashing the SOB, you should use it. Otherwise just do a MOB. You can also land a ground hurricane into air-superfireball and DHC into cyclops as well. From there, superjump roundhouse a lot with cyclops to buile meter, and chip the opponent with MOB's and your assists, making sure to run away and not get hit. I'd have a better strat for you if I actually used Sakura, but I don't. Sorry I couldn't help more. ____________________________________________ "Sabretooth, I will let you know I mean at any position. I know that spiral/cable/sent it's a good combination to use sent, for example. So I want a duo with two of this 4(spiral, cable, cyc and storm, always better with one being cable ) and sent or doom at any position do you think it will be better. Right now, I'm thinking of spiral/cable/sent(because I know you experts use it) ,doom/storm/cable and maybe sent/cable/cyc. I would like to know which suggestions can you gave me, and it will probably be better to use one of them as an anchor, so I can use most my already mastered(I wish) characters. But keep in mind that I need a team to beat teams that my usual combinations(spiral,cable,cyc storm,cable,cyc spiral,storm,cable) can't beat. If the team has very similar characteristics to one of the three above, I think I don't need to learn it from now. To be short, I need some counter teams." reply: That has got be the most complicated question I've ever seen. I can't analyze every possible combination of the top tier and explain what has an advantage over the other. I'm afraid I just don't have time to write a book on the game, not to be mean or anything. I suggest you master the 3 Spiral teams I suggest you master Cable/Storm/AAA I lastly suggest you master some kind of Magneto or Strider rushdown. You know all the teams, you even have a few that people haven't tried out yet. I'm not positive that I fully understand what you are asking me. It just seems like the answer to your question needs to be answered by your experience more than mine. Where do you play at and what is your competition like? I don't happen to know you do I? "Thank you very much for all the support you've been giving to me(fluffy too) and I hope this thread breaks all srk records. and mods: give some karma to the guy, who deserves more than him?" You're welcome man. I know I didn't answer your question completely, I kind of need more specific questions. ____________________________________________ "Kouryuken, I'm completely knew to this, or fighting games for that matter, so please take me lightly... First: What's AAA? Or Battery?" reply: AAA = Anti-Air-assist(like Cyclops-B, Commando-B, etc) Battery = Character used to build meter for a user character. "And what would be a good starting team? I've never been able to beat the game in the arcade so how did you beat it your first time?" reply: I was skilly the first time, you don't want to know what I was doing. =) I suggest using a Storm/Cable combination. Kill the first form by doing a jumping chain with storm, using an air dash to cross over in the middle of a chain so he will whiff moves. Second for, get full-screen away and throw non-stop short-ground-typhoons(horizontal not veritcal). Jump up and float and do the vertical typhoons when he does the bubbles. Last form just switch to cable and AHVB x 2 for a quick kill. "I've been practicing almost EVERY day, with Cable, Cyclops and Omega Red. Do you suggest any teams for a started? And what are your favorite combo's to do with that team? I pretty much just want a good starting strategy untill I get this game on DC, I want to practice a lot, but I'm totally new to it and I have no chance to mess around in the arcade cuz someone always comes in to kill me when I'm trying to beat the game..." reply: I suggest you pick Storm-A/Cable-A/Ken-A. It was the easiest team to use for me early in my tournament career. Just call ken-AAA whenever they are near you and run away with storm using fierce to build meter. Learn how to AHVB(see beginning of this thread). Learn to DHC from Cable to Storm. If you need to protect your ken assist, throw out a hailstorm or an AHVB. That should keep you busy for now, and you have no hardcore weaknesses with this team. ____________________________________________ "Bruton, Hey Micah/Lloyd, Could I please get some help and opinion on Spiral/B-Doom? I see a lot of potential in these two, with a quasi-Strider/Doom trap. Spiral chips okay with the six knives(even if only a few hit), but it's too slow for my tastes and giving people time to think and escape using other space-controlling assists which don't chip isn't a positive thing for me. I don't like Strider as much as he can't maneuver as well as Spiral and she basically builds meter for free IMO, which is meter to be used very nicely for chipping or killing by Doom, Cable, Storm etc. Can these two(Spiral/Doom) work well enough to lock people down for two cycles(I tend to hold them with S.FP and reload while Doom's hitting or teleport or SJ when I can and reload) or so and can they get in on the higher level teams(Cable/Storm mainly)? And what third character do you recommend? I'd like Storm, Cable, Iron Man, Sentinel, BH or Iceman there, but I'm not too fond of immediate anti-air assists unless it's Cable. Ideally, I'd like to be able to trap from both far away and up close(no immediate anti-air) with the one team, where the far away trapping is used to hold them there so that I can get in and chip with Doom, although I'm leaning towards having Cable(since he is so great) or Iron Man(Spiral Gamma holds them long enough to J.U.RK, infinite and A1/A2 doesn't make them block when comboed)." reply: Hey Derrek. I am the only person I know who likes Doom with Spiral. Good to see someone else out there trying it out. I suggest staying on the ground, go knife, time delay, knife, call doom, knife-knife-knife, call knives, knife(doom ends), time delay, etc. You can also facilitate your Doom calls by dashing forward with fierce for the purpose of locking down completely with a 7th knife(the fierce). This results in a full-screen-anywhere lockdown that is jumpable but its difficult as all hell. When ytou have 5 meters, feel free to burn one on a speed-up super. Mash this: jab and doom, and call knives when they block doom. Keep using jab-jab to lock them down ala MvC1 wolvie. The key to it all is slower knife shots and good timing on the re-load. "Also, what is your opinion on the triple jump characters Chun Li and Psylocke? I like the ability to call helpers on the third jump(as it makes it easier to avoid both your characters getting hit by an AHVB and you have great retaliation, but I'm not sure how this functions at higher level play(for instance, does Psylocke with Ken assist work or just annoy)." reply: Hm, I knew Chun could call helpers after a stomp, but all characters can after the 3rd jump on a triple jump? I didn't know that. Awesome. Dude, I've taken out some good players with my experiemntal Chun-li team. It's a good strat. If what you say is true, it's even better. I suggest Doom-assist with Chun-li, I'd lay off Ken unless they are using commando or something Ken needs to knock out. So the 3rd jump makes em callable huh? "Don't suggest Magneto in any of these teams please, because I'm really quite ashamed by my Magneto. =)" reply: Heh, no sweat. You are a good player Bruton, you should do fine. Read through this whole thread for tons of other info. ____________________________________________ "Fraptree, JinMaster or any one who can offer advice.. I don't play MvC2. Much to fast for me. My Brother and I play TekkenTag. But my Brother is catching on quite well on MvC2. Becoming one of the better keep away players. We have a list called the Big eight. 1.Cable 2.Sentinel 3.Dr. Doom 4.Magneto 5.Cyclops 6.Storm 7.Spiral 8.Blackheart These being the eight with which you can switch numerous teams and be able to contend with others. My questions would be of these eight? Which three should not be picked as a team(s)." reply: Do you mean which three form the worst combination? Probably Storm/BH/Cyke, but I could be wrong. You can use all the top tier effectively. Even Storm/BH/Cyke mought counter something out there. Beyond that, I don't understand your question. "Also Of the Characters Storm, Magneto, and Spiral. Which of their assists is best?" reply: Best for what? Storm's assists have their own uses, Mag's assists suck in general, and Spiral-A or C is dependant on your team. Storm-A is the arguably strongest assist, if you want to get down to it. "Also its no question Dr.Dooms AAA is terrific, but someone said that his photon shot assist is not bad either. Is that assist legitmate or just a personal opinion of a tiny minority?" reply: It depends on what you are fighting, generally, Doom-B is the most useful assist, but Doom-A is good against Magneto and Spiral to stop the crossup games. I would use it as a counter only. "Also Cable. Which assist is best? Not asking for Detail fags or any. Just a quick description. Apprectiate any reply" His best assist is Anti-Air cuase it covers a lot of air space and when you variable-switch to Cable you get to have an AHVB-DHC opportunity. The other two assists are dependent on your goal as a team. Beam is used to counter certain things, and gernade facilitates traps more. ____________________________________________ Shotokan, I've been a Jin fan sine MvC1. =P ____________________________________________ -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-05-2001).] Posted by Overkill on 03:06:2001 12:25 AM: thanx jinmaster i have a question about escaping the sent/bh trap is the best time after the short drones and right before the low fierce?? or is there a better time? thank you scat scat tat tat Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:06:2001 12:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey: FluffyXXL: Yo, Jin and I were talking the other day, and he said to talk to you about this.. how much different is it playing on regular joysticks (ex. MAS sticks) vs. 360 joysticks? He said that you played on 360's before, and he thought you could answer my question. Basically, the differnce between MAS sticks and 360s are so slight, it really isn't an issue. I've never had problems with MAS sticks. They are definitely good to practice your motions on. 8-ways are very different from 360s however. DPs and 360 motions are very hard to pull off on those if you're not used to them. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by cc on 03:06:2001 08:43 AM: People told me that cable can AHVB after Rocket punch, but it seems more likr theory fighter to me. Everytime sent does a RP, he has already called BH first, so if I try to AHVB the RP recovering animation, Inferno stops me. If I block Inferno to AHVB BH, sent has already sjumped out of it. What can I do?(I usually use cyc as my anchor) Posted by shuma on 03:06:2001 08:49 AM: When I’m on the ground against a grounded sent(not too far) he usually does a very fast fly cancel into LK, comboing after it. It’s really fast and I think I can’t block without predict it(since I’m blocking crouching to avoid sent’s crouch moves). If I keep standing, he can do a fast crouch move and hit me anyway. What can I do? Should I never block close to him? I use cable Posted by doombh on 03:06:2001 09:04 AM: by fluffy:” . If Strider ever knocks you down and is going to call doom as you get up, you can Psimitar as you get up to trade hits with Doom, which will only pop you up a bit and is totally unexpected. Then, you call a helper (cyke) which will push Strider off of you enough to start S.Fierce x 4 XX Fierce-Viper Beam.” This was about cable vs strider/doom. Fluffy(or Jin), can you elaborate a little more on this. It’s not the psimitar too risky for being used often> Or you mean like a surprise move? I got it on the norcal thread(if you’re wondering when you said this). Thanks(doombh) Posted by Seraphim on 03:06:2001 09:08 AM: I can't beat Cable. Magneto: If I miss an airdash + HK with him, AHVBx3. If I go C.LK - C.HP and C.HP is blocked, I eat AHVBx3. I either eat AHVBx3 through an assist + AHVB or just plain AHVB out of nowhere...or even C.LK - S.MK - S.HK xx AHVBx3 Storm: By the time I get to use Storm, I'm usually down in the match. If I try to runaway, I can't call vert typhoons fast enough to be out of Cable's range. Hailstorm chips too little to actually affect the match. Missed combo attempts make me eat AHVBx3. Cable: I can't find an opening for AHVBx3, and to find an opening I'd have to use an assist, and then he eats AHVBx3. Doom: Doom-BH trap chips too little to make a difference, sometimes the trap is too telegraphed and someone eats an AHVB. Spiral: Can't call swords, no matter where I am, I'd eat an AHVB. Safe call of D.S.LK - S.HP + Call Assist - Call Swords isn't safe against Cable. Teleporting out of AHVB isn't feasible because AHVB is usually done when I can't escape. BH: Inferno xx HoD is no-win. Demons can't keep Cable down. Sentinel: Can't do anything against a Turtle Cable, since Cable will just wait for a missed Rocket punch or S.HP. Best success I'd had was with Capcom, but I got lucky. 4 seconds left and I kill his Magneto with a chipping Captain Fire. Cable jumps in, I surprise with HK throw and mash for 90%. I still lost. Thx a lot... Posted by BastionEX on 03:06:2001 09:12 AM: Quick question. http://www.warganic.com lists SSam's infinite as (S.FP, press down once)REPEAT. the video link is dead so i cant see exactly what it means. Can you help me out here. I thin I managed to get three hits last night. In the corner against cable jp, fp, down, fp. and it didnt do that sweep, it was another standing Fp. Posted by yellow press on 03:06:2001 09:12 AM: the first cable super has to aim down and the second should aim up then on the third one you should do a normal jump then in the air do a regular super motion and the two punch buttons. I am not sure on the timing but this should work Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:06:2001 09:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by BastionEX: Quick question. http://www.warganic.com lists SSam's infinite as (S.FP, press down once)REPEAT. the video link is dead so i cant see exactly what it means. Can you help me out here. I thin I managed to get three hits last night. In the corner against cable jp, fp, down, fp. and it didnt do that sweep, it was another standing Fp. I might help you a little. This infinite is a down cancel infinite(like MvC1 Wolverine). When you press down after the HP you cancel the recovery time that you would need to do the other HP. A better way to understand is keep standing mashing HPs like crazy. You will see that it has some time between the HPs. Now try to do:standing HP, down, standing HP again. you don't need to do it very fast at the beginning, but then keep trying to do it faster and faster. You will see that the HPs are appearing way more faster than if you didn't press down between them, because the moment when you press down cancel that little wait you had have before. Practice it faste and faster and you will reach a rhythm when teh HPs will link to each other, and that's the infinite. I think I didn't explain it very well(I'm brazilian and my english still sucks), but click on features on the front page and look for an article about Ryu's infinite in Alpha 3. there you can see a pretty good explanation of the down cancel properties. The same applies to MvC2. I hope it helps a little!! And Jin , this thread is awesome! I will send you a question right away See you all later! Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:06:2001 09:40 AM: Hey, Jin, I will ask you one thing that I think it's most about opinion, but anyways this makes me think. Usually when you're playing Cable and a Magneto with Psylocke assist dashes in you jump back, right? So this way cable can avoid cross ups. At least I think that's the opinion of the majority. But before he gets in close, which position do you prefer to be, standing or crouching? If I'm crouching(the most common position, I think) I can block any jump attempt by just standing up(1 frame), but I need 2 frames to jump(crouch to stand and stand to jump). This can be dangerous since if I try to jump Magneto can occasionally catches me with a crouching hit when I'm in the middle frame(standing). If I'm standing, I can jump out of him faster(1 frame only), but if he does a crouching hit, I think it can catch me easily since sometimes his close airdash and attack is too fast to jump out on reaction, and I'm in the position that he can hits faster(to hit me crouching he would need a triangle jump, but just a c.LK can hit me standing). I think that position might be the riskier of all. So I'm doing it old way. When a Magneto comes to me, I don't jump(I mean, if he's already coming and my option is block or try to change hits. If I got room to move , then I often go to the air trying to control space yadda yadda yadda). Instead, I keep myself trying to block whatever he tries to do. So, if he starts jumping/superjumping animation, I block standing. If he just keep it on the floor, I block crouching. If he tries a cross up(usually using assist too) I try to reverse the block at the right time. While that's the option I can get more control of, it's the hardest of all(even because I need to watch out for the throws too). Plus, if I block, I just avoid getting hit. If he(or the assist) hits, I can expect an infinite into tempest into hail or something like this. Of course I have my own AAA, AHVBs, variable counters and snapbacks to make my chances go further, but I would like to do always the best defensive option. So what do you prefer? Which options do you think are the best to this kind of situation? Thank you very much for answering! See ya! Posted by Bruton on 03:06:2001 10:09 AM: "Hey Derek. I am the only person I know who likes Doom with Spiral. Good to see someone else out there trying it out. I suggest staying on the ground, go knife, time delay, knife, call doom, knife-knife-knife, call knives, knife(doom ends), time delay, etc. You can also facilitate your Doom calls by dashing forward with fierce for the purpose of locking down completely with a 7th knife(the fierce). This results in a full-screen-anywhere lockdown that is jumpable but its difficult as all hell. When ytou have 5 meters, feel free to burn one on a speed-up super. Mash this: jab and doom, and call knives when they block doom. Keep using jab-jab to lock them down ala MvC1 wolvie. The key to it all is slower knife shots and good timing on the re-load." Reply: Thanks, I didn't know the specifics or timing, I just used to dash in with rapid fire knives, S.FP and a Doom call/knive reload cancel. =) On the speed super thing though... I've been wondering about that. Her infinite with (dashing S.LK, S.HK) during the speedup... I can't keep it down for more than a few cycles and I was wondering if it would help more to go for traps instead. Since the aim is to extend the time she's holding them down so Doom can come back in, does the speedup help her trapping game? As in do the rapid fire jabs make up for her faster S.FP and no meter building? And does she have faster sword reloading with speedup? I lent my Dreamcast to a friend. =/ "Also, what is your opinion on the triple jump characters Chun Li and Psylocke? I like the ability to call helpers on the third jump(as it makes it easier to avoid both your characters getting hit by an AHVB and you have great retaliation, but I'm not sure how this functions at higher level play(for instance, does Psylocke with Ken assist work or just annoy)." " Hm, I knew Chun could call helpers after a stomp, but all characters can after the 3rd jump on a triple jump? I didn't know that. Awesome. Dude, I've taken out some good players with my experiemntal Chun-li team. It's a good strat. If what you say is true, it's even better. I suggest Doom-assist with Chun-li, I'd lay off Ken unless they are using commando or something Ken needs to knock out. So the 3rd jump makes em callable huh?" Reply: Yeah, you can call helpers during a double or triple jump, just so long as you don't superjump first. So for instance you can try to normal jump, jump, jump so you're up at SJ height, and then call a Rogue throw assist or something, and quickly try to land and follow up after that. The only problem I can see with that is facilitated guard breaking(since it's probably still classified as normal jump status), but I can't really test it all out in competitive play here(since nobody attempts guard-breaks except for me, very seldomly). I used to use Chunners and Psylocke a bit, ditching Chunners as the only thing I think she's REALLY got over Psylocke is an air dash(still, that's pretty good in conjunction with triple jumps for breaking traps), and the Psylocke assist is much more practical for setting up Iron Man's infinite(which I took your advice and learnt). The dash helps a bit more for crossups though(dash on the second jump with a helper call and then you can triple jump after it or land, I think). "Don't suggest Magneto in any of these teams please, because I'm really quite ashamed by my Magneto. =)" "Heh, no sweat. You are a good player Bruton, you should do fine. Read through this whole thread for tons of other info." Reply: Thanks, you're a great player yourself. I have been following this thread... there's a lot of great strategies in here. I can't believe that I never used Storm/Cable, etc. much before I went over there... =) It's a great thread, keep up the good work! -Derek [This message has been edited by Bruton (edited 03-05-2001).] Posted by BrEaThE ~525~ DeEp on 03:06:2001 10:30 PM: i would like to know all the traps you know with either strider/dom or any traps with spiral. i usually have cable in my teams so if you can come up with a trap with them that would be great. i need specifics on how to do the traps and the timing. i really need clear details. any help is good hlep. cya! Posted by Jinmaster on 03:06:2001 10:42 PM: Thanos, I haven't had the chance to test it out yet, it may have to wait until friday or something like that. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, thanx jinmaster i have a question about escaping the sent/bh trap. Is the best time after the short drones and right before the low fierce?? or is there a better time? thank you" reply: If you are Cable, you can only AHVB right before the drones are in your face, but if they call BH during the fierce, Cable shouldn't be able to do anything. ____________________________________________ "CC, People told me that cable can AHVB after Rocket punch, but it seems more likr theory fighter to me. Everytime sent does a RP, he has already called BH first, so if I try to AHVB the RP recovering animation, Inferno stops me. If I block Inferno to AHVB BH, sent has already sjumped out of it. What can I do?(I usually use cyc as my anchor)" reply: I think theory fighter is closer to saying "Setinel will cover his rocket-punch with BH" than it is to "Cable can connect a AHVB after a blocked rocket-punch". =) But anyway, there isn't a whole lot Cable can do during a normal trap in the first place. To answer your quewstion, If your opponent likes to just throw out BH and do a rocket punch then super-jump, you can probably just AHVB when you know he will do it again. It's not a particularly good pattern to use over and over against a good Cable. You will likely catch and kill both of them. Your second option is to just stay close and rush them down with Cyke, and be ready to combo that AHVB. ____________________________________________ "Shuma, When I’m on the ground against a grounded sent(not too far) he usually does a very fast fly cancel into LK, comboing after it. It’s really fast and I think I can’t block without predict it(since I’m blocking crouching to avoid sent’s crouch moves). If I keep standing, he can do a fast crouch move and hit me anyway. What can I do? Should I never block close to him? I use cable" reply: Sentinel's crouching roundhouse is a pretty slow move, you should block high most of the time vs Sentinel and try to develop your in-close reflexes a bit more so you can block low when Setinel is close. Otherwise, I suggest you just jump backwards or call an AAA assist and use a SJ gernade to cover it. ____________________________________________ "doombh, by fluffy:” . If Strider ever knocks you down and is going to call doom as you get up, you can Psimitar as you get up to trade hits with Doom, which will only pop you up a bit and is totally unexpected. Then, you call a helper (cyke) which will push Strider off of you enough to start S.Fierce x 4 XX Fierce-Viper Beam.” This was about cable vs strider/doom. Fluffy(or Jin), can you elaborate a little more on this. It’s not the psimitar too risky for being used often> Or you mean like a surprise move? I got it on the norcal thread(if you’re wondering when you said this). Thanks(doombh)" reply: Fluff is referring to a match we once had where I dahsed-jumped at cable with Uro going and called doom. Fluff only had Cable by himself, so he decided to try a scimitar. The first hit seems to either be invincible, or have very high priority. Both Doom and Strider got knocked the hell back. This won't work so well against teleports, but it is something to do when Cable is alone(people think they can rest easy when Cable has no AAA). This may just as likely get you killed, so remember that it's an all-or-nothing shot. ____________________________________________ "Seraphim, I can't beat Cable." reply: I'll give you some advice throughout your post. "Magneto: If I miss an airdash + HK with him, AHVBx3. If I go C.LK - C.HP and C.HP is blocked, I eat AHVBx3. I either eat AHVBx3 through an assist + AHVB or just plain AHVB out of nowhere...or even C.LK - S.MK - S.HK xx AHVBx3" reply: You shouldn't do most of that when Cable is blocking. You need to approach the situation differently. If you have Psylocke or Clops AAA, dash in with short-short and mash the AAA when the first comes out. It doesn't matter if he blocks or not, you have time to superjump and cross over. Secondly, you should approach a cable with an AAA assist by superjumping up and forward, and air dashing downward at a later time so you kind of fall right on top of Cable with a choice of what side you want to attack on. When you dash in, wether it be on the ground or on a triangle-jump, just throw out shorts and go for throws/helper calls. If you are fast on triangle jumps, you can do a 2-3hit jump in you can then go for a launch. Hope that helps. "Storm: By the time I get to use Storm, I'm usually down in the match. If I try to runaway, I can't call vert typhoons fast enough to be out of Cable's range. Hailstorm chips too little to actually affect the match. Missed combo attempts make me eat AHVBx3." reply: Storm should beat Cable 1v1, but you should try to have a lead when she gets in(land a DHC to hailstorm). Anyhow, you can typhoon out of Cables range if you super jump up, and air-dash up at the top of your arc and do typhoons so that your toe is showing on the screen. You can do 2-3 from there, then lightning attack up again. Try to land unpredictably by floating and unfloating, or coming down on top of Cable with shorts. Hailstorm does in fact chip a noticeable amount of life provided you mash it. "Cable: I can't find an opening for AHVBx3, and to find an opening I'd have to use an assist, and then he eats AHVBx3." reply: Pressure the opponent to create an opening. If they need meter, they will have to try to build it. So thats one thing: just watch their meter-building pattern and capitalize. Second, get in their face with random dashing C.short, C.forwad. If it ever connects, just s.roundhouse-AHVB. Of course, you have to watch for AAA. So choose this option when you think the time is right. You can also throw the other Cable as he will be blocking a lot. If the other Cable is low on life, you should chip him with AHVB, just make sure you call your best chipping helper just before you AHVB. You can easily do 50%+ damage with Cable and Spiral-A. Most of this comes down to experience. "Doom: Doom-BH trap chips too little to make a difference, sometimes the trap is too telegraphed and someone eats an AHVB." reply: Doom/BH is difficult to use against today's Cables. Cable can AHVB your j.fierce and he can wave-dash under shocks. I suggest you be more trick with when you choose to throw shocks. Doom has mad problems against a full-screen Cable, and if you call BH at the wrong time, you lose him. I suggest only doing things you know will be safe, which sucks but theres only so much you can do when you are trying to chip Cable hella slowly but he just needs one opening to kill you. "Spiral: Can't call swords, no matter where I am, I'd eat an AHVB. Safe call of D.S.LK - S.HP + Call Assist - Call Swords isn't safe against Cable. Teleporting out of AHVB isn't feasible because AHVB is usually done when I can't escape." reply: I think you would benifit from watching the tourney vids of Spiral play. Teleports, quickdrops+helper calls, etc, all help you call knives. Any time Cable SJ's you get to call knives on the ground. You can super jump up and if he goes up with you, teleport above him, then call knives. You can also make Cable block a helper, as long as the helper stuns him long enough. Once you have knives, just call helpers and teleport until the Cable makes mistake, and go do your metamorph combo on him. Otherwise, make him block and assist by calling one and teleporting, and then starting your knife trap. Also, every time you launch someone you get a free knife call after you throw them forward. "BH: Inferno xx HoD is no-win. Demons can't keep Cable down." reply: Yes they can. If you want to do this, make sure Cable is going to block it when he is not in the corner, otherwise he can just eat the super and AHVB when you dash in after the flying screen. The trick is to cancel your inferno fast enough for the HOD to lock him down. It's a bad fight, but you can SJ up and throw a roundhouse and air dash forward and come down with shorts while calling an AAA like Cyclops, and keep up the pressure. Just make sure you get Cable to block an assist before you SJ roudhouse. "Sentinel: Can't do anything against a Turtle Cable, since Cable will just wait for a missed Rocket punch or S.HP." reply: You need to learn to fly-cancel. Don't do standing or C.fierce on Cable unless you plan on follwoing up with a BH call or a HSF. On a turtle Cable, dash forward and SJ up and mash roundhouse just as you leave the ground for a quasi-overhead attack that usually hits. Then cancel that roundhouse into flight, call an assist, roundhouse over Cable again, Cancel flight. Then do it again or do something else like a chip trap with HSF. "Best success I'd had was with Capcom, but I got lucky. 4 seconds left and I kill his Magneto with a chipping Captain Fire. Cable jumps in, I surprise with HK throw and mash for 90%. I still lost. Thx a lot..." reply: Man, learn to run away. =) ____________________________________________ BastionEX, I think KdcMarvel answered your question adequately. Thanks Kdc. ____________________________________________ "kdcmarvel, Hey, Jin, I will ask you one thing that I think it's most about opinion, but anyways this makes me think. Usually when you're playing Cable and a Magneto with Psylocke assist dashes in you jump back, right? So this way cable can avoid cross ups. At least I think that's the opinion of the majority. But before he gets in close, which position do you prefer to be, standing or crouching? If I'm crouching(the most common position, I think) I can block any jump attempt by just standing up(1 frame), but I need 2 frames to jump(crouch to stand and stand to jump). This can be dangerous since if I try to jump Magneto can occasionally catches me with a crouching hit when I'm in the middle frame(standing). If I'm standing, I can jump out of him faster(1 frame only), but if he does a crouching hit, I think it can catch me easily since sometimes his close airdash and attack is too fast to jump out on reaction, and I'm in the position that he can hits faster(to hit me crouching he would need a triangle jump, but just a c.LK can hit me standing). I think that position might be the riskier of all. So I'm doing it old way. When a Magneto comes to me, I don't jump(I mean, if he's already coming and my option is block or try to change hits. If I got room to move , then I often go to the air trying to control space yadda yadda yadda). Instead, I keep myself trying to block whatever he tries to do. So, if he starts jumping/superjumping animation, I block standing. If he just keep it on the floor, I block crouching. If he tries a cross up(usually using assist too) I try to reverse the block at the right time. While that's the option I can get more control of, it's the hardest of all(even because I need to watch out for the throws too). Plus, if I block, I just avoid getting hit. If he(or the assist) hits, I can expect an infinite into tempest into hail or something like this. Of course I have my own AAA, AHVBs, variable counters and snapbacks to make my chances go further, but I would like to do always the best defensive option. So what do you prefer? Which options do you think are the best to this kind of situation? Thank you very much for answering! See ya!" reply: Your analysis of frames is very good. I never really thought about this situation that deeply, but I follow what you are saying. All this Japan posting has sprung up new questions it seems. I suppose I always block low, becuase I'm fast enough to stand up if they try a triangle-jump. If you can stand up on reaction, you can also push-block all attempts to tick-throw you. Try to hit Psylocke with your own AAA and AHVB her if you can. Seems like you understand the situation as well as I do. =) ____________________________________________ "Bruton, Thanks, I didn't know the specifics or timing, I just used to dash in with rapid fire knives, S.FP and a Doom call/knive reload cancel. =) On the speed super thing though... I've been wondering about that. Her infinite with (dashing S.LK, S.HK) during the speedup... I can't keep it down for more than a few cycles and I was wondering if it would help more to go for traps instead." reply: I personally use Jab/roundhouse, but to really keep it going, I suggest you alternate between jab/rh and short/rh. "Since the aim is to extend the time she's holding them down so Doom can come back in, does the speedup help her trapping game? As in do the rapid fire jabs make up for her faster S.FP and no meter building? And does she have faster sword reloading with speedup? I lent my Dreamcast to a friend. =/" reply: I can't say she call swords faster with any real authority, so I guess I don't know. What I do know is, the purpose of the speedup on this case is to make them block Doom 4-5 times and 4-5 rounds of knives. Jab-jab, jab-jab(mashing doom), jab-call knives, jab-jab, jab-jab, jab-jab, call Doom. Kinda like that, works best when they are in the corner. They should have little room to call assists. So yes, it helps her trapping game, and 5 rounds of Doom/knife is a good deal. I usually don't do this till I have 5 meters anyway. "Yeah, you can call helpers during a double or triple jump, just so long as you don't superjump first. So for instance you can try to normal jump, jump, jump so you're up at SJ height, and then call a Rogue throw assist or something, and quickly try to land and follow up after that. The only problem I can see with that is facilitated guard breaking(since it's probably still classified as normal jump status), but I can't really test it all out in competitive play here(since nobody attempts guard-breaks except for me, very seldomly)." reply: Doh, I thought you meant on a super-jump arc... your guardbreak comment is the reason that its a bad idea to normal jump into a triple jump. "I used to use Chunners and Psylocke a bit, ditching Chunners as the only thing I think she's REALLY got over Psylocke is an air dash(still, that's pretty good in conjunction with triple jumps for breaking traps), and the Psylocke assist is much more practical for setting up Iron Man's infinite(which I took your advice and learnt). The dash helps a bit more for crossups though(dash on the second jump with a helper call and then you can triple jump after it or land, I think)." reply: Psylocke is definately better than Chun-li overall, but I think Chun-li makes a better point-character/battery. "Thanks, you're a great player yourself. I have been following this thread... there's a lot of great strategies in here. I can't believe that I never used Storm/Cable, etc. much before I went over there... =) It's a great thread, keep up the good work!" reply: Thanks Derrek. Sorry we didn't get to kick it more when you were in my country, we lead such busy lives here and we forget to live life to the fullest at every opportunity it seems. =( -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:06:2001 10:44 PM: Can someone who has the will and the time to answer breathe's question please do so? I'm busy at work at the moment. -Micah Posted by Overkill on 03:06:2001 11:46 PM: Jinmaster, I meant the trap with the crouch fierce, blackheart, short drones repeat, that trap and what if i'm not cable? scat scat tat tat Posted by Dr. Deelite on 03:07:2001 12:00 AM: Jinmaster, just thought I'd let you know you have a question languishing on your forum. Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:07:2001 12:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Overkill: Jinmaster, I meant the trap with the crouch fierce, blackheart, short drones repeat, that trap and what if i'm not cable? scat scat tat tat Letting the BH AAA hit you is one way. You will go flying up and more likely than not the Sent player will still call drones because they expected you to block. So air dash in or shoot something down, etc. "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:07:2001 12:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by doombh: by fluffy:” . If Strider ever knocks you down and is going to call doom as you get up, you can Psimitar as you get up to trade hits with Doom, which will only pop you up a bit and is totally unexpected. Then, you call a helper (cyke) which will push Strider off of you enough to start S.Fierce x 4 XX Fierce-Viper Beam.” This was about cable vs strider/doom. Fluffy(or Jin), can you elaborate a little more on this. It’s not the psimitar too risky for being used often> Or you mean like a surprise move? I got it on the norcal thread(if you’re wondering when you said this). Thanks(doombh) This happened in one particular match that Jinmaster and myself had. He had Strider/doom, and I had Cable/cyke. He justed air comboed me to the corner. Normally, Strider can call Doom before you get up, and activate Ouro. Since i figured I'd have nothing to loose, I did a wake-up DP (Oldskool!) and to my suprise, it traded with Doom assist and Strider. They didn't get launched, but they were knocked up a sec, which gave me enough time to call Cyke assist. I basically broke the trap with a wake-up DP (Oldskool!). Basically, if you're ever knocked into the corner against Strider/Doom, you can expect to block a Doom assist, which you usually can't call an assist agianst, unless you've got some kind of godly timing to call the assist and block at the same time. It was more of a suprise to me than anything, and it's not a major gamebreaking strat, it's just a little trick I tried that worked. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Jinmaster on 03:07:2001 02:13 AM: ___________________________________________ "Breathe, i would like to know all the traps you know with either strider/dom or any traps with spiral. i usually have cable in my teams so if you can come up with a trap with them that would be great. i need specifics on how to do the traps and the timing. i really need clear details. any help is good hlep. cya! " reply: Strider/Doom: Make opponent block a stainding fierce, one way or another, Mash doom when you hit fierce, cacel fierce into Uro, throw rings, teleport on them, mash jab and short, land, S.fierce, S.roundhouse(throw rings with jab and short too), cancel roundhouse into teleport over opponent, mash doom and jab, kitty, kitty XX Uro. Spiral: Get knives somehow. Then jump up, at peak of normal jump, knife, knife, knife, land, jump knife, knife, knife, recall at top of jump, repeat. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, Jinmaster, I meant the trap with the crouch fierce, blackheart, short drones repeat, that trap and what if i'm not cable?" reply: Without HSF? You can super jump out before the drones hit when BH is not on the screen (where HSF normally locks you down). And yeah, you can eat BH too. ____________________________________________ "Dr. Deelite, Jinmaster, just thought I'd let you know you have a question languishing on your forum" reply: I adressed it, thanks. ____________________________________________ Posted by Dynamyte2U on 03:07:2001 02:31 AM: Yo, Jin. Thx for putting the time in helpin people out. Anywayz, I read on of Viscant's articles lately on the top tier characters in the game. He had Omega Red, Mega Man, and Dhalsim on the second tier. Also, I've noticed that GQ, one of the players on team Japan, uses Anakaris and defeated Valle with his team. I was wondering What are the good strategies, big combos, best assists, important stuff, etc... that I should know for Omega Red, Mega Man, Dhalsim and Anakaris? I haven't tried using these characters yet, or at least not seriously, but I will try them out soon. Maybe you can get me started. Posted by SmuvMoney on 03:07:2001 02:36 AM: Jinmaster et al., I'm trying to really learn how to play MvC2. I'm just a beginner with little competitive experience. So far my favorite team is normally y-Sentinal/B-Juggernaut/a-Iceman. Here are my questions: - Does the lack of an AAA assist weaken the potential of this team? Is this team weak in general? Is this the best order for my team? - I'm thinking of replacing Iceman with Spiral and making her point/battery, but I'm not sure what assist to use with her. Please advise - I'm leaning towards a-Spiral, but I wanted to make sure. - What would be the preferred way to activate Juggernaut's glitch, i.e., should I start him on point (well almost pseudo-point) long enough to power up and variable counter/switch out to the true point (be it Sentinel, Spiral, or whoever is the best point or battery)? Or should I have him as an assist, somehow switch him in, power up, and then somehow get him out of there safely? - Occasionally, I'll throw in a B-Hulk or a/B-Colossus instead of Iceman as Partner B for Team Armor (y-Sentinel/B-Juggernaut/Partner B ) I wanted some tips on both of these underused characters - are Hulk and Colossus as hopeless as Marrow as you answered earlier about her? I think that is all I have - I understand that it is a lot and I humbly and patiently await your reply, Jinmaster, Fluffy, or whoever is feeling kind at the time. Thanks in advance. Peace & God Bless, $muvMoney John 14:27 & Numbers 6:24 Posted by StarFire on 03:07:2001 02:55 AM: Some quick questions: Should I mash on CapCom's super, I think it's called captain sword (qcf + pp)? It just seems like whenever I do it takes off less damage. Who should be my third character for my Sentinal/CapCom counter team? Probably not Blackheart because I haven't really played enough with him though. Does Cable, Storm, or Spiral work well? And also what's his best air combo if I ever do a launcher? Thanx again Posted by Terazul on 03:07:2001 03:47 AM: Jinmaster, you're cool quote: All Your Base, Are Belong To Us Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:07:2001 05:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by SmuvMoney: Jinmaster et al., I'm trying to really learn how to play MvC2. I'm just a beginner with little competitive experience. So far my favorite team is normally y-Sentinal/B-Juggernaut/a-Iceman. Here are my questions: - Does the lack of an AAA assist weaken the potential of this team? Is this team weak in general? Is this the best order for my team? Depends on your competition level. I would say that it would hurt your overall game, but it depends on what you're fighting. If you fight a lot of keep-away beam characters, you wouldn't need AAA, in fact it could prove to be a liability. If you're fighting a lot of Guile/Jill rushdown scrubs, you don't need AAA, but it makes your life way easier. quote: Originally posted by SmuvMoney: - I'm thinking of replacing Iceman with Spiral and making her point/battery, but I'm not sure what assist to use with her. Please advise - I'm leaning towards a-Spiral, but I wanted to make sure. Defintely go with alpha assist. Her knife assist does so much chip damage, especially combined with Sentinel. Use C.fierce (call spiral) XX QCF+Short, C.Fierce XX Hyper Sentinel Force. Repeat x #of supers you have. Does lots of chip damage and is usually hard to get away from if you start it right. quote: Originally posted by SmuvMoney: - What would be the preferred way to activate Juggernaut's glitch, i.e., should I start him on point (well almost pseudo-point) long enough to power up and variable counter/switch out to the true point (be it Sentinel, Spiral, or whoever is the best point or battery)? Or should I have him as an assist, somehow switch him in, power up, and then somehow get him out of there safely? If you're going to use Juggie, start him first and get him out. You can switch if you think it's safe, or Variable Counter to the character you want. Juggie is so much better as an assist than as a point, especially since his assist just plain hurts, and you can variable counter back into him and cancel into headcrush to jack one or more characters almost instantly. quote: Originally posted by SmuvMoney: - Occasionally, I'll throw in a B-Hulk or a/B-Colossus instead of Iceman as Partner B for Team Armor (y-Sentinel/B-Juggernaut/Partner B ) I wanted some tips on both of these underused characters - are Hulk and Colossus as hopeless as Marrow as you answered earlier about her? Actually, just about every character can be playable (not tourney worthy, but playable) with the righth combination of assists. This usually involves Sentinel Ground and Blackheart Anti-Air Assists. xxxx/G-Sentinel/B-Blackheart is a formidable team with almost any character, and would suit Marrow well too. Not to sure about Hulk and Colossus though. My opinion on them, they have uses, but most people don't see it. Colossus, rest his soul, especially can wreck things cuz of his armor super. Pixies just have to run away the whole time he's in that mode. They can't call a helper, and they can't try to attack or they eat phatty air combo. Also, get used to launching AAA helpers with him too. Jumping around a lot trying to land cross-up Roundhouses is good too. The occasional C.Roundhouse XX Short-Tackle is good as well, but don't abuse it. Hulk isn't as useful as colossus, but Beta-Hulk is useful in team supers. You can mash out of Gamma Crush, but when there's another super holding you in place, you can't mash it. Also, you can always turtle against rushdown and wait for an opening to sneak in a Roundhouse-Gamma Charge XX Gamma Quake. He has really damaging combos, most of which you'll never get close enough to use. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by babbyjuggs on 03:07:2001 08:01 AM: Why psimitar is good against sent/bh? Do you use tehfierce or light version? Posted by wm on 03:07:2001 08:03 AM: What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. Posted by powerful on 03:07:2001 08:07 AM: Can cable AHVB spiral after her forced dash after the flying screen from the metamorphosys super? (I mean, in the same way as BH, cable takes the special, and when spiral is dashing in he recovers and AHVB?) Thanks Posted by wm on 03:07:2001 08:10 AM: – What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. Posted by on 03:07:2001 08:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by wm: – What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. Best way to avoid it is to have a teleport character like Spiral. You cannot match my Fatal Fury. http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/supergeek.gif Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:07:2001 08:53 AM: Originally posted by Jinmaster: BastionEX, I think KdcMarvel answered your question adequately. Thanks Kdc. You're always welcome ____________________________________________ "kdcmarvel, yadda yadda" reply: Your analysis of frames is very good. I never really thought about this situation that deeply, but I follow what you are saying. All this Japan posting has sprung up new questions it seems. I suppose I always block low, becuase I'm fast enough to stand up if they try a triangle-jump. If you can stand up on reaction, you can also push-block all attempts to tick-throw you. Try to hit Psylocke with your own AAA and AHVB her if you can. Seems like you understand the situation as well as I do. =) -Micah Thanks, Jin. So you don't jump often too, eh? After hear you it seems that it can be possibly the best way. I think I will put this question on "the view from here" too and see what other top players think. Maybe someone can give a different opinion than ours(if anyone from here wants to do it, please do so). Once again I need to tell you that the job your doing here is excellent. I'm checking your site once a week or so and it's really nice too. I hope you can keep both going. See ya! Posted by Monkey on 03:07:2001 08:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL: Basically, the differnce between MAS sticks and 360s are so slight, it really isn't an issue. I've never had problems with MAS sticks. They are definitely good to practice your motions on. 8-ways are very different from 360s however. DPs and 360 motions are very hard to pull off on those if you're not used to them. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Only DP's? What makes them the hardest thing to pull off on 360's compaired to anything else? Jinmaster I know, I just wondered where you were..I was bored.. -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com http://monkeyboi4907.tripod.com/monkeyss4.gif Posted by Overkill on 03:07:2001 09:00 AM: [This message has been edited by Overkill (edited 03-06-2001).] Posted by Overkill on 03:07:2001 09:03 AM: Hey jinmaster, thanx for everything your doing, could i have some advice on counter teams? basically what is a good counter team or teams to the following popular teams sent/cable/bh bh/cable/cyc bh/sent/commando cable/storm/cyc doom/storm/aaa spiral/cable/sent (my biggest concern) magneto/storm/aaa the main characters I play are doom,cable,storm,blackheart, and cyclops ps, do you think storm/cable/doom is a good team? scat scat tat tat [This message has been edited by Overkill (edited 03-06-2001).] Posted by wm on 03:07:2001 09:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Supergeek: Best way to avoid it is to have a teleport character like Spiral. You cannot match my Fatal Fury. <IMG SRC="http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/supergeek.gif"> You didn't understand it. I'm the cable player, the other can be cable or any other. Let's say he's cable and killed my battery. Then he jumps with HP, my guad is broken and I need to AHVB or he will AHVB me. But he just has to block my AHVB and hit me after it(I can't block because oif the j. animation) If I don't do AHVB, he can gb anyways. This works for evry gb character against my cable, and that's why I'm asking it. Posted by WhiTe ReFlection on 03:07:2001 09:17 AM: okay heres a wild question for the all mighty "Jinmaster". how do i use Ankaris (mummy dude) since i'm a scrub at the game i wanna know what is the best combo and strats for him? and don't tell me that coffin drop cuz it's gay!!! Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:07:2001 09:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by wm: – What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. You can still counter AHVB. You'll land before he gets a chance to AHVB you, so it's still safe. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Iceman on 03:07:2001 10:12 AM: What's up Jin. I never did remember that question (it was probably something about Colossus) from the other day. I have a couple more though. #1 I'm interested in how you'll answer Overkill's Q. #2 I was going to ask you your opinions on who makes up the "tiers" (at least top and second). You appear to have a lot of questions to answer so I'll understand if that one gets overlooked. #3 About Omega Red. Who would you say is a good team for him? I believe this question has been asked before. Right now I'm messing around with Omega/Storm/Cyclops. Cyclops AAA give Omega a free coil grab, and Clops AAA helps Omega combo into his air super (for what that is worth). Then there's always the option of Alpha countering Cyclops in and doing a SOB/Hail Storm DHC (Alpha Countering to do damage is something I'm trying to practice). And finally, against the top tier (including Cyclops) who do you think Omega Red has his best match against? His worst match? I used to think OR was good against Cable, but now I think that may be his worst match. #4 I don't remember if you ever answered this or not. Who do YOU think is better. Charlie or Guile [This message has been edited by Iceman (edited 03-06-2001).] Posted by pataylahat on 03:07:2001 10:32 AM: i would like to learn doom's infinite via corner, this thread is so long i really don't feel like looking it up (if already posted). also i think u can connect photon shot and photon charge in corner. this is the way i do it: jab, strong, d+fierce, jab, short, strong, forward, air dash up forward, short, roundhouse, photon charge or shot. http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/images/bagsvenom_small.jpg You cannot escape an enemy's wrath, much like your own shadow... Posted by Bruton on 03:07:2001 04:10 PM: Thanks Derrek. Sorry we didn't get to kick it more when you were in my country, we lead such busy lives here and we forget to live life to the fullest at every opportunity it seems. =( Reply: One thing... there's only one "r" in my name, thanks. You and Fluffy really were great hosts, and it was fun to play against you guys(and Spider-Dan, who I used that Spiral/ServBot/Doom team against) and see all the theory in action. The main thing was probably money and time on my end anyway, with me opting to spend money on comics rather than games, but it was fun, with the Castro Valley tourney and everything. And I went to Vegas(which was pretty cool). On Spiral assists: Alpha is the main choice, but Gamma has its uses too. First off, Gamma A1/A2 is a super which you can't get normally, and you can combo it off of a S.FP, and it works fine with some other supers(e.g. Proton Cannon), as well as doing a lot of quick chip damage(if you need to kill them with it mainly). The actual assist is S.FP, which although isn't as good for chipping(none) and range, is fairly good for combos. For instance, if you land a jump in with Iron Man, you can combo in Spiral Gamma, jump and do J.LK, J.U.RK and go into his infinite. Of course you can use WM's Repulsor Blast assist comboed in for the same effect and more initial damage, but then you have to use WM or even Psylocke if you wanted that(as opposed to having Spiral on your team instead of them). Her S.FP assist is actually quite good as it has a fair amount of priority and holds them for so long that you can hit them with your biggest combo no problem(AHVB3, MT, infinite, etc). You can also use it to set up "cool" looking combos that never usually hit, like Jill's Tyrant, or WM's Proton Cannon. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:07:2001 11:49 PM: ___________________________________________ "Dynamite2U "Yo, Jin. Thx for putting the time in helpin people out. Anywayz, I read on of Viscant's articles lately on the top tier characters in the game. He had Omega Red, Mega Man, and Dhalsim on the second tier. Also, I've noticed that GQ, one of the players on team Japan, uses Anakaris and defeated Valle with his team. I was wondering What are the good strategies, big combos, best assists, important stuff, etc... that I should know for Omega Red, Mega Man, Dhalsim and Anakaris? I haven't tried using these characters yet, or at least not seriously, but I will try them out soon. Maybe you can get me started." reply: Ok, I have no idea how to play dhalsim correctly. I know roundhouse is good and there is a lot of air-dashing and teleport games you can play with your roundhouse. If their team has no answer to him jumping up and teleporting forver at the top of the screen whilke calling assists, thats also an option. You can download some vids of his combos in this site or at http://www.gamefaqs.com Anakaris isn't particualrly useful, although he has a 300% combo with Cyclops assist and his supers do major damage. The Cyclpops-AAA is called during a C.short-short then you go up with short-short, knocking them into cyclops, and you do the mummify thing that makes them into a little thing that cant block or superjump or attack. Then you redo it over and over, gaurdbreaking the next character with the same thing. I also souggest finding combos and general info at gamefaqs. Omega Red is usually played with just crouching roundhouse, short strike, retract, repeat. He also can make you block a forward-upward strike whatever the motion is, then down-cancel it into a jump-in attack or just land into a C.short. His main use is to build meter. Megaman is played with megabuster traps and rockball traps with helper assists. His J.fierce does a lot of damage to both helpers and main characters. He really has no safe outlet for his meter other than an assist-covered beat-plane. His main use is as a battery and he is somewhat good at stopping Magneto and stopping Cable from AHVB. BTW, I flamed you in the general forum on the donation thread. ____________________________________________ "SmuvMonkey, Jinmaster et al., I'm trying to really learn how to play MvC2. I'm just a beginner with little competitive experience. So far my favorite team is normally y-Sentinal/B-Juggernaut/a-Iceman. Here are my questions: - Does the lack of an AAA assist weaken the potential of this team? Is this team weak in general? Is this the best order for my team?" reply: Juggernaut needs to be in front becuase I don't think he is useful without the powerup glitch. The power-up gltich is simply DP motion with PP, and switch out while you are still glowing. He will do considerably more damage. You team somewhat weak vs top trap teams and rushdown teams. I suggest ditching Iceman for Spiral, as Iceman's usefulness is usually dictated by the oppoonent's team. If you really want to use him, I suggest you structure your team as: Jugg-B/Sent-Y/Iceman-A Powerup with Jugg and switch in Setinel. Sentinel is hard to punish off a switch do to him having high stamina with a side benifit of being off the ground when he taunts. Only supers and launchers will damage him, all other attacks ground him into block after 1 hit. I suggest downloading the tournament vids for MvC2 from this site and learning the Setinel techniques you see there. You will proabbly fly a lot and call Jugg to kill their assists. Gltiched Jugg assists kill helpers in 2-4 hits. "- I'm thinking of replacing Iceman with Spiral and making her point/battery, but I'm not sure what assist to use with her. Please advise - I'm leaning towards a-Spiral, but I wanted to make sure." reply: Haha, you are ahead of me. Yeah, learn Spiral/Setinel/BH and you ahve one of the best teams in the game. You can also Spiral/Sent/Jugg if you want, just make sure you start Jugg and glitch him. Again, the vids on this site will help you a lot. "- What would be the preferred way to activate Juggernaut's glitch, i.e., should I start him on point (well almost pseudo-point) long enough to power up and variable counter/switch out to the true point (be it Sentinel, Spiral, or whoever is the best point or battery)? Or should I have him as an assist, somehow switch him in, power up, and then somehow get him out of there safely?" reply: Kind of a matter of preference, but I think you can play Jugg effecticely enough to powerup and possibly switch safely. Well, half the time maybe. Glitching is very important for Jugg, so I suggest doing it asap. If you immediately push them off you at the start of the match, power-up and switch out, but try not to power up if they can hit you. It's generally not worth having Jugg eat a full combo and your next character as well. "- Occasionally, I'll throw in a B-Hulk or a/B-Colossus instead of Iceman as Partner B for Team Armor (y-Sentinel/B-Juggernaut/Partner B ) I wanted some tips on both of these underused characters - are Hulk and Colossus as hopeless as Marrow as you answered earlier about her?" reply: Colossus has some potential, in that he makes you play a certain way when he armors up. He is most useful on counter teams, in my opinion. Hulk is very weak, his best way to kill assists(gamma crush) can usually be nullified by any top tier-chracter, plus you can mash main characters to get up faster if you get caught by his ascent. I suggest using Colossus over Hulk, for the first reason I mentioned, and the second reason being that his AC to super does so much damage when you learn how to aim it, he almost kills assists in one combo. He is most useful against Magneto. "I think that is all I have - I understand that it is a lot and I humbly and patiently await your reply, Jinmaster, Fluffy, or whoever is feeling kind at the time. Thanks in advance." reply: No problem, and good luck. ____________________________________________ "Starfire, Should I mash on CapCom's super, I think it's called captain sword (qcf + pp)? It just seems like whenever I do it takes off less damage." reply: I'm not 100% positive, but I was under the impression that the Cap Sword damage is based on the opponents character and posistion they are in when they get hit by it. Ask Fulffy becuase he knows everything there is to know about Captain Sword. "Who should be my third character for my Sentinal/CapCom counter team? Probably not Blackheart because I haven't really played enough with him though. Does Cable, Storm, or Spiral work well?" reply: Counter team for what? BH goes very well with Sentinel, as well as Spiral. Since you don't use BH, I suggest Spiral/Setinel/Cap. Just keep Spiral alive so that when you chip people with C.fierce(call spiral-A), HSF. "And also what's his best air combo if I ever do a launcher?" reply: Fluffy is the combo machine for him, ask him if he hasnt answerd you already... I haven't read his post yet. I think that you should never ever launch, since Captain commando seems to always have meter when he is in, land a cooridor and XX cap sword. If you do launch, try to find a combo with no AC finisher that will make you both fall in the same spot, so you can go for a roundhouse-mashed throw. ____________________________________________ Terazul, Thanks for the compliment, but could you refrain from posting one-line posts? It's just not good for SRK or my thread. Thanks for the compliment though. ____________________________________________ "Babyjuggs, Why psimitar is good against sent/bh? Do you use tehfierce or light version?" reply: Cable's AAA assist is what we are talking about usually, as you can call it at the correct time and place and disrupt a lot of air space(that the opponent should be in). You can do it normally as Cable, just make sure you know what you are doing. ____________________________________________ "wm, What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me." reply: I'm not aware of anyone good enough to do that consistently. If someone is that tricky, just eat the bullet. They can't wait to see if you are trying to counter-break and still react to you eating the bullet. ____________________________________________ "Powerful, Can cable AHVB spiral after her forced dash after the flying screen from the metamorphosys super? (I mean, in the same way as BH, cable takes the special, and when spiral is dashing in he recovers and AHVB?) Thanks" reply: I haven't tested that to be 100% sure, but I don't think you can AHVB that. She is in a dash you can block during the end of, or you can just teleport when you revocer from the dash. I may be wrong, but I have never seen Cable do that to her. BH is really slow in that situation so it makes sense that Cable can jack him. ___________________________________________ KdcMarvel, Hey man, thanks for the support. I'll probably update my site after march, becuase my whole MvC2 section needs attention. The SHGL tourney that Seatlle will be at will give me the opportunity to confirm my beiliefs with most of the other top MvC2 players. If I were a mod, I'd give you a karma point for politeness. =) Anyhow, I do in fact jump backwards sometimes. It usually depends on the situation. If I'm mid-screen, I like to jump back or SJ out of there depending on the Mag team. One of my strangths is that I don't panic when being rushed down, so Mag teams usually don't give me the most problems as a player. When I lose, I'm usually out-trapped and can't come back. =P ____________________________________________ "Overkill, Hey jinmaster, thanx for everything your doing, could i have some advice on counter teams? basically what is a good counter team or teams to the following popular teams sent/cable/bh bh/cable/cyc bh/sent/commando cable/storm/cyc doom/storm/aaa spiral/cable/sent (my biggest concern) magneto/storm/aaa the main characters I play are doom,cable,storm,blackheart, and cyclops ps, do you think storm/cable/doom is a good team?" reply: Ok, I'll tell you some good teams vs the teams you listed, but I will go outside of your characters. sent/cable/bh < Strider/Doom/AAA + Mag/Storm/AAA bh/cable/cyc < Spiral/Cable/Ken-AAA(Spiral with ken-AAA rapes this team) bh/sent/commando < Strider/Doom + Cable/Storm/AAA cable/storm/cyc < Spiral/Sent/BH + Spiral/Cable/Sent doom/storm/aaa < Cable/Storm/Cammy (cammy assist rapes doom) spiral/cable/sent (my biggest concern) < Spiral/Sent/BH, possibly Spiral/Storm/Cable, and arguably strider/Doom/AAA and Mag/storm/AAA. magneto/storm/aaa < Cable/true-AAA, but in general Mag/Storm is a veratile combination and how well one does is realted directly to how well they are used in breaking traps and getting in. Any assist that covers a lot of area hurts this team: Doom-A, Ken-A, most other AAA-s with invinciblity frames. Lastly, I think Storm/Cable/Doom is a bad team. It can win, but they all get in each others way to a degree. ____________________________________________ WhiteRelection, I answered this question earlier in this post, not the thread, in this post. What I know about Anakaris is based on what I hear from other top players and not personal experince. ____________________________________________ "Iceman, #2 I was going to ask you your opinions on who makes up the "tiers" (at least top and second). You appear to have a lot of questions to answer so I'll understand if that one gets overlooked." reply: I will write about this, but like I mentioned to someone else, its going to be after march 31st, possibly after B5. "#3 About Omega Red. Who would you say is a good team for him? I believe this question has been asked before. Right now I'm messing around with Omega/Storm/Cyclops. Cyclops AAA give Omega a free coil grab, and Clops AAA helps Omega combo into his air super (for what that is worth). Then there's always the option of Alpha countering Cyclops in and doing a SOB/Hail Storm DHC (Alpha Countering to do damage is something I'm trying to practice). And finally, against the top tier (including Cyclops) who do you think Omega Red has his best match against? His worst match? I used to think OR was good against Cable, but now I think that may be his worst match." reply: Exactly, Cable beats him for free almost. Cyclops won't help you hurt cable, and in gneral Cable will have Setinel or an AAA to hurt you in close. OR was originally my counter to Strider/Doom, since both his underground rh and his strike will hit strider through uro. If you really want a good team for him, I suggest Sent/BH. You probably undertand why. OR is a battery and needs far-reaching assists so as to not lose control. Some of it depends on how you play your OR as well. Rushdown OR could benifit from Clops to a degree. "#4 I don't remember if you ever answered this or not. Who do YOU think is better. Charlie or Guile" reply: Man, I'm not even trying to have an opinion on this. I don't even know what charlie has, I totally forgot what you told me before. I think guile is useful for his flashkick-AAA that shoots the crescent up there, and the fact that he can do it mid air. I like Charlie for his ability to fill the screen with booms and crap. Either way you look at it, I think they are useful in different situations...but I have no practical expereince playing either of them. =) ____________________________________________ pataylahat, I don't use it or remeber the combo. Maybe someone here can give you wargainc's page adress, all infnites are there. ____________________________________________ Bruton, Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. Gamma is better for specialized teams, the current top teams benifit most from the projectile assist however. Sorry I mispelled your name Derek. ____________________________________________ Guys, in the future, can you please try to find out infinites from gamefaqs or warganic's page before asking me? This thread does take up a lot of my time so this should help me out a bit. Otherwise good questions, keep em coming. -Micah Posted by Dasrik on 03:08:2001 02:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dynamyte2U: Also, I've noticed that GQ, one of the players on team Japan, uses Anakaris and defeated Valle with his team. I have it on good authority that Valle threw that match, because it was GQ's birthday. Posted by Overkill on 03:08:2001 02:25 AM: thanx jinmaster but that didn't help me mutch cause almost all the counter teams were spiral/x/x but its ok i guess is it hard to learn commando?? is he harder to learn to use than cyc assist?? lastly why do you prefer cable/storm/aaa than storm/cable/aaa?? scat scat tat tat Posted by Jinmaster on 03:08:2001 02:52 AM: "Overkill, is it hard to learn commando?? is he harder to learn to use than cyc assist??" reply: Not harder to use assist-wise, just different. He isn't invincible like Cyclops is, and you really can't combo anything after a commando assist. Obviously, you use commando against certain teams and tactics. On point, I'd say commando is much harder to use effectively. I guess calling Cyclops assist takes more skill to use effectively, since the range is smaller and you have to be fast to AC after it hits. "lastly why do you prefer cable/storm/aaa than storm/cable/aaa??" reply: Becuase it's very easy to build 1 meter with Cable without getting hurt. After that, they can't mess up at all, anywhere on the screen basically, or you eat an AHVB and a DHC to a mashed hailstorm. Then you have a long way to catch up, and thats difficult against a good Storm. You should only start Storm against another Cable. -Micah Posted by Dynamyte2U on 03:08:2001 03:14 AM: quote: BTW, I flamed you in the general forum on the donation thread. -Jinmaster. And I responded. Posted by Renagade on 03:08:2001 03:41 AM: Jinmaster or Fluffy, Thanks for your help. Four very specific questions. I play Mags/Storm/Psy. That's my team... and I'll stick with them for awhile. 1.With Magneto, what's the easiest way to get two tempests in one combo? I know one can do the big huge combo with the airdash, but I'd prefer to not screw up as much. I've tried the OTG lk-rk grav tempest then relaunch, but the motion is tricky from crouch and they have two chances to roll. also, After the first tempest in the AC, it's very difficult to hit them afterwards (like 50%). 2.How essential to a "maximum Magneto" is a double tempest combo??? 3.Do you use the LK or RK grav? (it seems the LK has less range and thus window to combo, but brings them closer for combo afterwards) 4.I'm entering high level play (tourneys and trips to high level arcades). What teams should I really worry about? Thanks for your help. The last question is to help with my unfamiliarity with late high level characters. (my machine's at lvl 22. No spiral, Sent, BH). If I know who to fear, i'll think of counters more. I'll kill you... Kill you alot! [This message has been edited by Renagade (edited 03-07-2001).] Posted by Dynamyte2U on 03:08:2001 04:03 AM: I might as well give a bit of advice. Renegade: 1.With Magneto, what's the easiest way to get two tempests in one combo? I know one can do the big huge combo with the airdash, but I'd prefer to not screw up as much. I've tried the OTG lk-rk grav tempest then relaunch, but the motion is tricky from crouch and they have two chances to roll. also, After the first tempest in the AC, it's very difficult to hit them afterwards (like 50%). Reply: If you prefer not to do two Grav-Tempests in the air, and you'd prefer not to OTG lk-rk grav relaunch, the easiest other way (only other way), is: dash in, c.lk, c.hk xx hyper grav xx tempest, c.lk (OTG), SJ, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4 xx hyper grav xx tempest. Yup, just OTG to launch right after the first tempest. 2.How essential to a "maximum Magneto" is a double tempest combo??? It's not "essential" at all, actually. In fact, doing more than just launch, 123, 1234 xx grav xx tempest is just extras. Because of damage scaling and the high combo value of Tempest, most of the hits in the combo do 1 point of damage, out of 143. If you added the air dash to magic series after the first air tempest, its only use is to build meter. If you use more than one tempest, the tempest (approx 30 hit), will do just over 20% damage, as opposed to the 40-50% of the first tempest. It's useful, but not essential. 3.Do you use the LK or RK grav? (it seems the LK has less range and thus window to combo, but brings them closer for combo afterwards) It doesn't matter which grav you use, but I personally, I like the LK more. It's slower than the RK one (but still fast enough to connect), and therefore, takes longer to hit the opponent. Because it takes longer to hit, the opponent will spend less time suspended in the black blobs, and will have less time to mash out. LK gets my vote, cuz it's slightly harder to mash out of. 4.I'm entering high level play (tourneys and trips to high level arcades). What teams should I really worry about? You should worry about every high-caliber team. Remember, in life hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Basically, the teams you should worry about have characters in the top tiers. Just make sure you have at least a decent counter or method-of-handling for the following: -close-range traps, ie Strider-Doom -long-range traps, ie Doom-BH -keep away, ie Storm, Iron Man -rush down, ie Magneto, Storm It's not as hard and complicated as it seems, but countering is a lot more than just choosing your characters wisely. You have to play them wisely too. Nothing substitutes practice in this game. It is the counter for everything. [This message has been edited by Dynamyte2U (edited 03-07-2001).] Posted by Voodoo on 03:08:2001 05:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by wm: What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. You can't *avoid* it...it just depends on who you use. Big guys (Jugg, Sent, BH) - can take the firece hit - and they will drop to the ground before the AHVB reaches them. Everyone else - If you can double jump or air dash then do it. Cable (others with no double/dash) - if you can't AHVB in response, you're pretty much SOL. You could try taking the firece and hope that throws off their timing, or just pray they miss the AHVB. ~v00 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right. Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:08:2001 05:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Renagade: 1.With Magneto, what's the easiest way to get two tempests in one combo? I know one can do the big huge combo with the airdash, but I'd prefer to not screw up as much. I've tried the OTG lk-rk grav tempest then relaunch, but the motion is tricky from crouch and they have two chances to roll. also, After the first tempest in the AC, it's very difficult to hit them afterwards (like 50%). C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Hyper Grav XX Magnetic Tempest, S.J.Jab -> S.J.Strong XX Air dash UF, A.D.Jab -> A.D.Short -> A.D.Strong -> A.D.Forward XX Hyper Grav XX Magnetic Tempest, S.J.Roundhouse (just to let them know you mean bidness) And I also posted just about every Magneto combo I know earlier in this thread, so just flip through my posts till you find it. It's on page 3. quote: Originally posted by Renagade: 2.How essential to a "maximum Magneto" is a double tempest combo??? It's not essential at all. The most essential aspect of Mags is controlling your own positioning and maneuvring around your opponent. Learning his throw games, how to work them into combos, and set-ups are way more important than to focus on multiple tempest combos. If you can do the basic tempest combo, that's all you really need. Everything else is just for show, although it does do a lot of damage. quote: Originally posted by Renagade: 3.Do you use the LK or RK grav? (it seems the LK has less range and thus window to combo, but brings them closer for combo afterwards) Don't believe everything you hear. People have been telling me that Roundhouse is better, but at the same time, I've been using Short almost the whole time, without any problems. By the same token, i've heard people say you can't do some combos with short (which I do) and also heard conflicting comments about roundhouse. Until someone sits down and tried each combo or comes up with different combos for each button and documents them here on SRK.com, then I just assume it's a matter of timing. quote: Originally posted by Renagade: 4.I'm entering high level play (tourneys and trips to high level arcades). What teams should I really worry about? Spiral/Sent/Blackheart, Spiral/Cable/Sent, Spiral/Cabe/Cyke, Cable/Storm/Cyke, Magneto/Storm/Psylocke, Strider/Doom/Sentinel, Doom/Storm/Sentinel, Doom/Storm/Blackheart Oh yeah, and ph33r Venom/Sent/Blackheart. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations [This message has been edited by FluffyXXL (edited 03-07-2001).] Posted by Overkill on 03:08:2001 07:35 AM: Jinmaster - thank you for all the help as I said before my main chars are doom,cable,storm,bh, and cyc I usually play doom/cable or storm/bh or cyc or storm/cable/cyc or bh/cable/cyc, what characters do you suggest i learn to counter certain teams that would give these trouble or assist chars(commando etc), keep in mind i don't like sent and spiral :P scat scat tat tat Posted by BastionEX on 03:08:2001 09:04 AM: I just had a follow up question about the SilSam infinity.I just had two additional questions. 1> When I get the speed up sometimes I'll get the second part of the standing Fierce where SSam sits down and slashes out the legs. My question is, does this happen because I didn't press down or because I pressed down and FP together. 2> Is this infinity even realistic in real combat? It seems if you have to start slow and speed up progressively until it starts to combo that to do it against a real opponent they would need to be in hit stun by...oh lets say Spirals Y assist. Even that assist probally wouldn't hold them long enough. Or can you do the infinity off the first s.FP? Posted by Shingro on 03:08:2001 10:02 AM: Hmmm... well I'm going to sound like an newbie idiot with my team here, so permit me to say I've been playing MvC2 since it came out anyway, now that my ego is fine, the team I'm using now is Felicia, Jin, Hulk/Gambit. Usually I have gambit on point with his projectile assist, Jin with his tornado assist and Felicia with her litter kick assist. The couple of tactics I have is crossup and summon Jin assist in air so it shows up behind them, it's enough to confuse the ppl over here, and then I pound on them when their in the tornado, I also do this with Gambit's assist, but I'm guessing this won't work against pros. I also tend to do a simple ducking crouch/launch -> air punch chain with Gambit, I tend to link kick string to litter kick with felicia, (using dash, norm jump as my setup) but other then that I don't have much going for me. I love having Jin in there with his tornado assist, and I'd *love* to be able to use Felicia effectively.... Gambit can go, but I'd pefer someone not terribly mainstream, (keeps plp from knowing my tactics even before I start the match) with some decent defence. Ergo, hulk... With hulk I take the Dash assist. When he's out I tend to use his Gamma crush as a jump-in/Anti Air counter (my friend likes to jump in with Ryu's short, very perdictable) I also link C short -> C.fierce -> dash up, dash up. I'm working on his C.short->C.fierce -> Gamma crush Anyway, those are all things I'm working with, but they are mostly wake-ups this will likely cause me some problems if I go to a tournament... (no one around here plays decent keepaway lets just say I've never seen a AHVBx2 ~_~) so anyway, I can dominate here, but I'm trying to get tourny ready... So I'm mostly looking for help on solo tactics for Felicia, Hulk, and Jin (I'll probably drop gambit if there's nothing special to him ('sides glitches)) Some team tactics and assist advice, and possibly a charecter recomendation (is there a darkhorse char that could survive tourny level?) I'd especially like Jin and felicia help, (like when Jin's health is low and he powers up, I tend to choke, battle plan?) http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/shingro2.gif Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:08:2001 10:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by pataylahat: i would like to learn doom's infinite via corner, this thread is so long i really don't feel like looking it up (if already posted). also i think u can connect photon shot and photon charge in corner. this is the way i do it: jab, strong, d+fierce, jab, short, strong, forward, air dash up forward, short, roundhouse, photon charge or shot. <IMG SRC="http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/images/bagsvenom_small.jpg"> You cannot escape an enemy's wrath, much like your own shadow... I think I can help with Doom's infinite. launcher, LK, MP, HK, flight, LK , MK ,HK, flight, LK , MK, HK, flight, LK, HK, flight(repeat LK, HK, flight). Things to remember: 1)Do the first sj. LK as low as possible(very fast) 2) Cancel all HKs to flight and flight to LKs as fast as you can, even before the infinite part starts 3) Don't do the LK, HK on the infinite part too fast, or the opponent will be too high after some cycles.(so it's LK to HK not so fast, HK to flight very fast, flight to LK very fast) 4) The undizzie is about 52 hits, against a full life opponent. If you want to cancel it into a special, I suggest you do only about 45 and then change the combo to it. 5) Try it first against BH or another Doom. It's easier to do it against them. When you get more practice, try the smaller characters. 6) You can change the first MP for MK or even any MK for Mps if I remember right. I do it the way I do because it seems confortable to me. 7) The infinite isn't much useful(you have to be Doom cornering an opponent, which doesn't happen very often at high level play). So if you want to be good with Doom, I suggest you give priority to strategy and his other combos first. If you're already good, then why not have this option ready? Go for it I hope it helps! to Jin Thanks for the additional info and to call me polite See ya! Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:08:2001 10:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by BastionEX: I just had a follow up question about the SilSam infinity.I just had two additional questions. 1> When I get the speed up sometimes I'll get the second part of the standing Fierce where SSam sits down and slashes out the legs. My question is, does this happen because I didn't press down or because I pressed down and FP together. 2> Is this infinity even realistic in real combat? It seems if you have to start slow and speed up progressively until it starts to combo that to do it against a real opponent they would need to be in hit stun by...oh lets say Spirals Y assist. Even that assist probally wouldn't hold them long enough. Or can you do the infinity off the first s.FP? Since I replied your first question, I will try to help you here. 1)I think you didn't press down on time, but I'm not so sure. Either way, you need to try it very clean(HP, down, HP, down, HP, always once at a time). If you feel like pressing both together, you might be doing the command for the last HP a little before the down cancelling, which will break the infinite. It's hard on start. I even remember Viscant saying to me that americans weren't good to do Wolverine's down cancel infinite on MvC1. Considering the level of the US players, I think it should be considered a real hard thing to master properly(although it's possible, but you will need lots of practice). 2) It's possible, but again you will have to be pretty good at the execution. The example I gave you first it's just a better way to understand and start doing it, but once you get the timing real down you can start the infinite right off the first HP. I think this infinite can do pretty good damage with like 10 hits, since you're doing only HPs. After it you will get just about 1 damage point by HP(damage scalling). So ,if you can land it, it might be a good idea to master it. I hope it helps and good luck! Posted by beta on 03:08:2001 10:50 AM: Dumb question going... I keep hearing about Spiral's offensive teleports being not a good idea, which seems to include teleporting out of assists or beams, because the assist can catch you. So what's a defensive teleport. If Jin or Fluffy had the time to explain, I would like to know all the situations when I should teleport against top tier teams. thanks Posted by Master Strider 77 on 03:08:2001 10:57 AM: Does anyone know any super long combos with strider not involving an asst. outside of psylocke or magneto? Any help is appraciated, thanks. ~The one the only Strider Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:08:2001 10:43 PM: Jinmaster: just thought i'd let you know, I was messing around with the game a bit, and you can combo a MOB off of a Gene Splice, but it has to be after the first hit and you have to have a decent amount of space in between you and your opponent to do it. It's hard to put in combos, but easiest to do if you do the Variable counter and cancel after one hit. The closer you are, the less damage it does. If you barely hit with the Gene Splice, it will do more I think. You need to get the most amount of the beam as possible touching the opponent, so you don't want them to close to you when you start it up. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:08:2001 10:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by beta: Dumb question going... I keep hearing about Spiral's offensive teleports being not a good idea, which seems to include teleporting out of assists or beams, because the assist can catch you. So what's a defensive teleport. If Jin or Fluffy had the time to explain, I would like to know all the situations when I should teleport against top tier teams. Well, I define teleporting by this criteria. Offensive teleports are when you're teleporting to punish someone for doing something, like if they stick out a Fierce-Viper Beam, and you teleport and combo them. Defensive teleporting is to evade beams/characters/projectiles coming towards you. Like, if you teleport through a Hailstorm, or to get out of a trap. This is one of the major things that can be used to punish Spiral however, since a few characters can make you think it's a good idea to teleport, then SJ and hit you while you're in the slight recovery animation. Still a major anti-Spiral strategy is to use Doom/Storm, have two meters, and SJ Photon Array with Doom. As Spiral teleports, DHC straight to HailStorm, so she gets hit in her recovery animations. If Spiral times it correctly though, she won't get hit. However, for that to happen, she'll have to be out of the cone of fire for the Photon Array, which she ususally can only do with a teleport. So, if you battery with Doom, it's still a viable anti-spiral stragey. If she doesn't teleport, she's at risk for taking chip damage. If she does teleport, she's at risk for HailStorm DHC. Normally, you want to try to kill Spiral with this, so you can have Storm with a lead against Cable. He can't really stop Storm from running or chip her enough without an assist that will allow that, like Spiral Projectile assist. You can also do something similar with Cable/Storm, but you use AHVB instead. If you AHVB a helper and Spiral teleports, free HailStorm on both characters. quote: Originally posted by Master Strider 77: Does anyone know any super long combos with strider not involving an asst. outside of psylocke or magneto? Any help is appraciated, thanks. ~The one the only Strider J.Fierce -> J.Roundhouse \/ D.S.Jab -> C.Short -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward, S.J.Short, double jump, D.J.Jab -> D.J.Short -> D.J.Strong -> D.J.Forward XX Jab-Excaliber You can combo the part after the jump-in at the end of an ouroboros and do the rest of the air combo as well. If you ever hit Ouro, just to repeated D.S.Jab and at the end do the C.Short -> C.Fierce, etc. But, J.Fierce -> J.Roundhouse \/ C.Fierce /\ S.J.Short -> S.J.Forward XX Jab-Excaliber will still do more damage -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations [This message has been edited by FluffyXXL (edited 03-08-2001).] Posted by RubyHeart4ever on 03:09:2001 03:45 AM: Okay I don't know if this thread has been answered in awhile but I need some strategies for Ruby. I've posted a topic for that too just in case so if you answer here could you please answer in that thread as well?? What I really need is how to divide and conquer with my teams. They are: Ruby, Akuma, Rogue Ruby, Akuma, Jill Ruby, Jill, Rogue I don't know if they are good teams but I like to play with those characters. I usually start out with Ruby and then come in with Rogue. With Rogue I like to do Power Drain to frustrate and then put the pressure on them with moves. Power Drain is used often when I've got the chance since it's unblockable and I can combo into it from coming in with Rogue and doing a HK, HK, power drain type combo. Some help would be really great! Thanks. RubyHeart4ever "Feel the Partenaire cause' it can't be helped." -- Ruby Heart, MvC2 [This message has been edited by RubyHeart4ever (edited 03-09-2001).] Posted by Iceman on 03:09:2001 06:24 AM: Thanks again Jinmaster. I've decided that Omega isn't worth the effort. I thought about learning him as a counter character, but then I couldn't think of anything he countered I have another ? for ya. I know you said you weren't a Sabretooth expert, but who would you advise as a partner for Spiral/xxx/Sabretooth? I was trying to learn this team about 2 months ago but I gave up. I was using Blackheart in this team. Not I want to try again. Now I'm leaning towards using Sentinel with this team. My thinking, 'if you are picking this team, you are betting the whole fight on keeping one (or more) characters out of the fight because of the trap. If you lose Spiral, you've already lost the fight anyway.' I figure I should at least put Sentinel in that way if I take Spiral out, I'll probably have a full super meter so I can chip 50% of off a character for free and take it from there (maybe even up the fight while I'm at it). My other considerations are Storm (trap away with Sprial, hope to get a lead and full meter, and run like hell with it) or Cable (either to provide an AAA, for the Alpha Counter to AHVB which I need to practice badly, or just for someone to burn all that meter Spiral/Sabretooth builds). Which of these 3, Sentinel, Storm, Cable, would you advise, or would you advise someone else altogher? Posted by Ryu1999 on 03:09:2001 03:55 PM: i'm still a MVC2 newbie (IS THAT POSSIBLE???) and i'm still contemplating a team. so far my best teams revolves around sent/BH/doom, strider/doom/BH, and mags/cable/psylocke. i think i have the easiest time with sentinel/BH, but i'm still wondering what to do outside of fly cancelling stomps, fierce beams, drones and all that jazz. also, i'm still confused: is strider/doom still lethal? with all that hype that viscant still puts into it, i was just wondering, since he ranked strider #2 and all. also tiger knee help? (i know i know i'm a scrub) i either do a super jump fierce or just a straight up super jump. I NEED HELP. i can nail 3xAHVB through normal jump methods, but it's not reliable to punish whiffed moves (since midjump (ascending)->ahvb though fast, is still slower than TK AHVB. Thanks I'll take the shoryuken over the EWGF any day! Ryu1999 -=Super-Scrub Extraodinare=- http://ryuc601999.homestead.com Posted by Jinmaster on 03:09:2001 08:41 PM: Everyone, I have two tournaments this weekend, and a girlfriend to cuddle. I will start responding either Monday or Sunday night. -Micah Posted by RubyHeart4ever on 03:09:2001 09:36 PM: Jin, believe me when I say I understand.... Ryu, don't worry. Everyone is a scrub at some point in time and we've all got to learn too. If it makes you feel any better I've been playing for a year, getting used to my characters and trying to put togethe a decisive team and I'm JUST NOW able to do Air Combos from a launcher ON THE DREAMCAST. Sorry I don't mean to yell but it has taken that long for me to do it, and I just happened to think about it one night after a night at the arcades. So when I say I'm a scrub too, just know that you've got someone else right there with you. And I've got to ask a newbie question myself too for you Jin when you reply, what the hell is AHVB or something to that effect?? I've seen it EVERYWHERE and I have no idea what that means!!! -- Ruby "Feel the Partenaire cause' it can't be helped." -- Ruby Heart, MvC2 Posted by SmuvMoney on 03:09:2001 11:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by RubyHeart4ever: Jin, believe me when I say I understand.... Ryu, don't worry. Everyone is a scrub at some point in time and we've all got to learn too. If it makes you feel any better I've been playing for a year, getting used to my characters and trying to put togethe a decisive team and I'm JUST NOW able to do Air Combos from a launcher ON THE DREAMCAST. Sorry I don't mean to yell but it has taken that long for me to do it, and I just happened to think about it one night after a night at the arcades. So when I say I'm a scrub too, just know that you've got someone else right there with you. And I've got to ask a newbie question myself too for you Jin when you reply, what the hell is AHVB or something to that effect?? I've seen it EVERYWHERE and I have no idea what that means!!! -- Ruby "Feel the Partenaire cause' it can't be helped." -- Ruby Heart, MvC2 Even though I'm a fellow MvC2 scrub, I can answer your question. AHVB stands for Air Hyper Viper Beam, one of Cable's supers. The reason it is mentioned so much is that if done correctly (through the Tiger Knee method), you can continuously repeat the super (up to 5x!) and outright kill opponents and helpers/assists on one mistake. The reason it can be repeated is that it has almost no recovery (something like 1-2 frames) so it can be done again and again and the opponent will not recover in time before you the next one. However, the ground AHVB has a much worse recovery and hence can not be repeated. The actual method is below. The fastest way to do an AHVB is through the Tiger Knee method. To do it, simply do this motion: D,DF,F,UF+PP. If done correctly, you do will an AHVB about an inch off of the ground at about the same speed you can do a ground AHVB. Any small to medium mistake can be punished heinously with an AHVB this way. Once you hit them the first time with an AHVB, you can do another "Tiger Knee" AHVB or jump and do a standard air AHVB (jump, D,DF,F+PP) - lather, rinse, and repeat IIRC until dead. I hope this answers your question. By the way, don't feel bad about not knowing about AHVB. It took me about three months of reading posts to truly understand how deadly the AHVB is and why Cable is so feared because of it. I didn't even have the balls to ask - I decided to figure it out through all the posts talking about it. Peace & God Bless, $muvMoney John 14:27 & Numbers 6:24 Posted by SmuvMoney on 03:09:2001 11:53 PM: After answering that question about AHVB, now I have a question. Jinmaster (et al. of course), after reading your replies to your first set of questions, I have decided to seriously pursue a B-Juggernaut/y-Sentinel/a_B-Colossus team (yes the Super Armor team ). I was just wondering if I should use a-Colossus (Dash Type - LK Tackle) or B-Colossus (Anti-Air Type - HK Tackle). Since I have B-Jug, it seems that a-Colossus would be redundant as an assist. IMHO B-Jug's assist is much more reliable and useful as a dash type assist than Colossus especially when glitched. B-Jug's assist is much harder to jump over - most normal jumps will get hit by the fist as Jug starts to punch). The a-Colossus assist is easy to normal jump over as he is rather low to the ground. It seems that B-Colossus stops anything at point blank range (dashers/pixies and jump-ins) in front of and above Sentinel when he is point very well. It may also depend on the team I'm against as well, but I wanted to know which assist is better in general and against what type of team/opponent. Thanks in advance Jinmaster for your help once you rock both those tourneys and your gf as well. Of course, others may answer as well... Peace & God Bless, $muvMoney John 14:27 & Numbers 6:24 Posted by Shingro on 03:10:2001 02:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Everyone, I have two tournaments this weekend, and a girlfriend to cuddle. I will start responding either Monday or Sunday night. -Micah good luck, I hope you have the stamina to last though all our questions with the same accuracy I've seen in the past... Your becoming quite the popular guy. o_O http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/shingro2.gif Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by RubyHeart4ever on 03:10:2001 06:34 AM: hey, thanks for that. I was really off on what that meant because I never seen that before, but knowing how Cable is set up, I can definitely see it. I hope he does good in his tournaments. Playing off of sheer willpower and determination, I placed 5th in my first tournament a week ago. I hope he dominates Ruby "Feel the Partenaire cause' it can't be helped." -- Ruby Heart, MvC2 Posted by achamp on 03:11:2001 11:44 AM: I'm trying strider.doom/commando and I'm losing to cable teams. If I teleport, cable jumps back and calls cyclops. If I call doom from full screen, cable calls storm. What can I do to beat him? Posted by cc on 03:11:2001 11:48 AM: I read viscant said that cable /clops vs cable/x the cable/clops can call clops to the other cable block, sj. and do HP grenade. I saw duc doing it against mag and storm on the vid. My problem is, if I keep doing this, I can’t AHVB if clops hits, because I’m too high and doing a grenade. So, if this tactic is the best, wouldn’t be better use Ken. I can AHVB at sj. level because Ken puts them high and it has more range/priority, even beating clops teams. What you think about this? Posted by beta on 03:12:2001 10:21 AM: I have trouble AHVBing Sent’s HP to short drones or even the drones alone on reaction. I usually just trade hits when I try it. What’s the right way to do it? And if I have cyc, I can call him to eat drones and AHVB, right? Posted by hulk on 03:12:2001 10:32 AM: Can someone give me examples of way wavedash breaks traps like sent/bh, cable/spiral, spiral/whoever and any others? I only know how to beat doom/bh(photons version) with it. Thanks Posted by bomberman on 03:12:2001 10:40 AM: – Around here, lots of guys has pasted the last month practicing cable’s variable counter (psimitar) to ahvb. So, they’re doing it all the time. My question is if I can do any cable/spiral traps or even cable sequences with grenades and vbs against the other characters they play without getting risk of eat a counter into ahvb x 3? Any strategies to be safe against it? Posted by doombh on 03:12:2001 10:45 AM: quote from jin about spiral vs mags: “make sure you can keep mag off you when storm assist comes out” How to do this? I usually have no time to get out because he’s so fast. Posted by msf on 03:12:2001 10:48 AM: How to play spiral(using sent or cyc assist, and cable) against doom/bh? Posted by gief on 03:12:2001 10:52 AM: How to play cable(with storm or spiral as battery and cyc as anchor) against a perfect fly cancel sent, with bh? And if I didn’t use any AAA(spiral/cable/sent)? Thanks Posted by coolest on 03:12:2001 10:55 AM: Just curious: How much time do you play each week? And what about ricky and the other experts you know? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 12:02 AM: ___________________________________________ Renegade, It looks like your question has been answered adequately. If you want more info, just ask. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, as I said before my main chars are doom,cable,storm,bh, and cyc I usually play doom/cable or storm/bh or cyc or storm/cable/cyc or bh/cable/cyc, what characters do you suggest i learn to counter certain teams that would give these trouble or assist chars(commando etc), keep in mind i don't like sent and spiral :P" reply: I suggest learning commando for sure. He helps a lot vs Setinel and Blackheart teams. You can probably win with some combination of the the characters you normally choose, but it won't hurt to learn how to play Commando. I suggest you have some kind of answer to an experienced Spiral, you will have to learn how to play Setinel even if you only use him as an assist. How do you normally fare against spiral teams? ___________________________________________ "BastionEX, I just had a follow up question about the SilSam infinity.I just had two additional questions. "1> When I get the speed up sometimes I'll get the second part of the standing Fierce where SSam sits down and slashes out the legs. My question is, does this happen because I didn't press down or because I pressed down and FP together." reply: Probably the latter, but I'm not really a Sam user and I don't try his infinite. "2> Is this infinity even realistic in real combat? It seems if you have to start slow and speed up progressively until it starts to combo that to do it against a real opponent they would need to be in hit stun by...oh lets say Spirals Y assist. Even that assist probally wouldn't hold them long enough. Or can you do the infinity off the first s.FP?" reply: I think you should focus more on his meter building and chipping ability. Most sam players win by landing lightning supers on assists and on main characters, and the star super coupled with doom assist is a very good way to chip people to death. ____________________________________________ "Shingro, Hmmm... well I'm going to sound like an newbie idiot with my team here, so permit me to say I've been playing MvC2 since it came out anyway, now that my ego is fine, the team I'm using now is Felicia, Jin, Hulk/Gambit. Usually I have gambit on point with his projectile assist, Jin with his tornado assist and Felicia with her litter kick assist. The couple of tactics I have is crossup and summon Jin assist in air so it shows up behind them, it's enough to confuse the ppl over here, and then I pound on them when their in the tornado, I also do this with Gambit's assist, but I'm guessing this won't work against pros. I also tend to do a simple ducking crouch/launch -> air punch chain with Gambit, I tend to link kick string to litter kick with felicia, (using dash, norm jump as my setup) but other then that I don't have much going for me. I love having Jin in there with his tornado assist, and I'd *love* to be able to use Felicia effectively.... Gambit can go, but I'd pefer someone not terribly mainstream, (keeps plp from knowing my tactics even before I start the match) with some decent defence. Ergo, hulk... With hulk I take the Dash assist. When he's out I tend to use his Gamma crush as a jump-in/Anti Air counter (my friend likes to jump in with Ryu's short, very perdictable) I also link C short -> C.fierce -> dash up, dash up. I'm working on his C.short->C.fierce -> Gamma crush Anyway, those are all things I'm working with, but they are mostly wake-ups this will likely cause me some problems if I go to a tournament... (no one around here plays decent keepaway lets just say I've never seen a AHVBx2 ~_~) so anyway, I can dominate here, but I'm trying to get tourny ready... So I'm mostly looking for help on solo tactics for Felicia, Hulk, and Jin (I'll probably drop gambit if there's nothing special to him ('sides glitches)) Some team tactics and assist advice, and possibly a charecter recomendation (is there a darkhorse char that could survive tourny level?) I'd especially like Jin and felicia help, (like when Jin's health is low and he powers up, I tend to choke, battle plan?)" reply: It looks like you need a brand new plan. If you plan on using Jin, I suggest using his second assist becuase of its priority. It is the only assist he has that I think is useful. I totally think you should drop gambit, and Hulk has no place on a good tournament team. The combo you mentioned: C.short, C.fierce, XX gamma crush, can be mashed out of, and leave you vulnerable. Honestly, if you want to get tournament ready, you can't restrict yourself to underused characters. If you want me to organize your main team of gambit/jin/felica, I guess I could do that. However, it won't be able to beat any quaility player with a normal tournament team. If you are willing to give me better characters to work with, then I could design your team so that it might fare better. Jin is a keeper, but felica and gambit are very limited in their ability. I think putting Jin in the back of some teams can be very helpful against some teams. I primarily see Felcia used to counter ground characters by using her kick specials to cover ground and assists. Her punch throw can be mashed for almost 2 meters of super. She can battery for some teams. Your biggest problem I think is that you have no way to spend meter effectively with your current team. I would offer more, but I need a little more input on what you are willing to learn. ____________________________________________ "Beta, I keep hearing about Spiral's offensive teleports being not a good idea, which seems to include teleporting out of assists or beams, because the assist can catch you. So what's a defensive teleport. If Jin or Fluffy had the time to explain, I would like to know all the situations when I should teleport against top tier teams." reply: Knowing when and where to teleport is all about expereince. I actually need to improve upon that myself. I usually teleport to avoid certain assists or to keep Cable from AHVBing my helper to detah. I also teleport to avoid chip traps or to avoid hailstorm chipping. The trick to playing Spiral, which I kind of forgot this weekend, is to call your assists at the proper time, as opposed to just mashing out knives and assists. I also may teleport to run away. If you give me some more specific team situations, I can tell you when I would teleport. ____________________________________________ "Master Strider 77, Does anyone know any super long combos with strider not involving an asst. outside of psylocke or magneto? Any help is appraciated, thanks." reply: The longest stand-alone combo I can think of with strider without the use of super is jump-in 2,1,2, land and dash forward, 1,2,1, C.4(launch), 1,2,1, time delay 2, double jump 1,2,1,2, jab-up-slash. ____________________________________________ "RubyHEart4ever, Okay I don't know if this thread has been answered in awhile but I need some strategies for Ruby. I've posted a topic for that too just in case so if you answer here could you please answer in that thread as well?? What I really need is how to divide and conquer with my teams. They are: Ruby, Akuma, Rogue Ruby, Akuma, Jill Ruby, Jill, Rogue I don't know if they are good teams but I like to play with those characters. I usually start out with Ruby and then come in with Rogue. With Rogue I like to do Power Drain to frustrate and then put the pressure on them with moves. Power Drain is used often when I've got the chance since it's unblockable and I can combo into it from coming in with Rogue and doing a HK, HK, power drain type combo. Some help would be really great! Thanks." reply: I don't have time to reply to you twice, but I'll tell you that Ruby heart is a good character but she needs better assists to back her up as well as better characters to use the meter she builds. I highly suggest learning how to play Cable or Strider or Setinel or Storm so that you at least have an outlet for all the meter that Ruby builds for you. You could even make your team Ruby/Cable/Rogue and use Rogue-C assist to catch people after you have Cable in for an easy AHVB chain. If you want to make Ruby even more useful on point, you should learn to play Doom-B along with her and probably put strom second so that you have an immediate hailstorm ready to punish close to anything. AHVB = Air Hyper Viper Beam. It is discussed on the first few pages of this thread. I highly suggest reading this entire thread to help you with your game. ____________________________________________ "Iceman, Thanks again Jinmaster. I've decided that Omega isn't worth the effort. I thought about learning him as a counter character, but then I couldn't think of anything he countered I have another ? for ya. I know you said you weren't a Sabretooth expert, but who would you advise as a partner for Spiral/xxx/Sabretooth? I was trying to learn this team about 2 months ago but I gave up. I was using Blackheart in this team. Not I want to try again. Now I'm leaning towards using Sentinel with this team. My thinking, 'if you are picking this team, you are betting the whole fight on keeping one (or more) characters out of the fight because of the trap. If you lose Spiral, you've already lost the fight anyway.' I figure I should at least put Sentinel in that way if I take Spiral out, I'll probably have a full super meter so I can chip 50% of off a character for free and take it from there (maybe even up the fight while I'm at it). My other considerations are Storm (trap away with Sprial, hope to get a lead and full meter, and run like hell with it) or Cable (either to provide an AAA, for the Alpha Counter to AHVB which I need to practice badly, or just for someone to burn all that meter Spiral/Sabretooth builds). Which of these 3, Sentinel, Storm, Cable, would you advise, or would you advise someone else altogher?" reply: Well, I think OR can counter Strider/Doom and Magneto teams, provided you don't face Cable with him. Anyhow, my opinion is that the Spiral/Sabretooth trap is not very practical. It takes immense skill to do for even 2 rotations, and pushblocking can screw up your timing. Also, there is almost zero point to having Sabretooth as a Primary assist with Spiral if you already have Setinel assist. Sentinel gives you the same trap essentially, you just have to work it differently. Don't do the jumping wall, shoot all 6 and call setinel at the 6th knife, dash forward and fierce and cancel the fierce into a reload, the drones will then be blocked, then throw knives again. If you want to use that Spiral/tooth team, then put Cable-AAA on your team so you have a real outlet for your meter. Just keep spiral alive so you have a real chip option. ____________________________________________ "Ryu1999, i'm still a MVC2 newbie (IS THAT POSSIBLE???) and i'm still contemplating a team. so far my best teams revolves around sent/BH/doom, strider/doom/BH, and mags/cable/psylocke. i think i have the easiest time with sentinel/BH, but i'm still wondering what to do outside of fly cancelling stomps, fierce beams, drones and all that jazz. also, i'm still confused: is strider/doom still lethal? with all that hype that viscant still puts into it, i was just wondering, since he ranked strider #2 and all." Reply: As for Setinel, thats what he's all about. You have to know when to tutrle and when to be super-agressive. Strider/Doom is more useful as a counter team than as a main team. I don't think anyone thinks Strider is #2 anymore, as he kind of needs doom to do real damage and most teams with a good AAA have a chace to beat him. "also tiger knee help? (i know i know i'm a scrub) i either do a super jump fierce or just a straight up super jump. I NEED HELP. i can nail 3xAHVB through normal jump methods, but it's not reliable to punish whiffed moves (since midjump (ascending)->ahvb though fast, is still slower than TK AHVB. Thanks" reply: On the first page or two of this thread this question was adressed. If it doesn't help you, let me know. ____________________________________________ "SmuvMoney, After answering that question about AHVB, now I have a question. Jinmaster (et al. of course), after reading your replies to your first set of questions, I have decided to seriously pursue a B-Juggernaut/y-Sentinel/a_B-Colossus team (yes the Super Armor team ). I was just wondering if I should use a-Colossus (Dash Type - LK Tackle) or B-Colossus (Anti-Air Type - HK Tackle). Since I have B-Jug, it seems that a-Colossus would be redundant as an assist. IMHO B-Jug's assist is much more reliable and useful as a dash type assist than Colossus especially when glitched. B-Jug's assist is much harder to jump over - most normal jumps will get hit by the fist as Jug starts to punch). The a-Colossus assist is easy to normal jump over as he is rather low to the ground. It seems that B-Colossus stops anything at point blank range (dashers/pixies and jump-ins) in front of and above Sentinel when he is point very well. It may also depend on the team I'm against as well, but I wanted to know which assist is better in general and against what type of team/opponent. Thanks in advance Jinmaster for your help once you rock both those tourneys and your gf as well. Of course, others may answer as well..." reply: Well, my personal experince has been that Collosus ground assist is more useful becuase his assists have a delay to them and the first assist comes from behind you to stop crossups and whatnot. Jugg tends to get beat by 2-hit jump-ins and most assists, so I think the delay is helpful here. Use jugg when they are far, and Collosus when they are near. I also suggest leaning how to variable switch into a super with both Collosus and Jugg. ____________________________________________ "Achamp, I'm trying strider.doom/commando and I'm losing to cable teams. If I teleport, cable jumps back and calls cyclops. If I call doom from full screen, cable calls storm. What can I do to beat him?" reply: It's hard when Cable has Cyke, I suggest being less predictable when calling doom and teleporting. Remeber that you have other options like double-jumping over Cable while calling doom. You can also throw a kitty and call doom and then teleport, he shouldn't be able to AHVB you if you keep changing up. You can also get close and wait for Cyke to come out, then call commando and teleport in response. I suggest mixing it up a bit more. ____________________________________________ "cc, I read viscant said that cable /clops vs cable/x the cable/clops can call clops to the other cable block, sj. and do HP grenade. I saw duc doing it against mag and storm on the vid. My problem is, if I keep doing this, I can’t AHVB if clops hits, because I’m too high and doing a grenade. So, if this tactic is the best, wouldn’t be better use Ken. I can AHVB at sj. level because Ken puts them high and it has more range/priority, even beating clops teams. What you think about this?" reply: You can't rely on ken becuase ken doesn't set up AHVB and you really need to be able to land one when your assist hits. Many teams make Ken assist useless, so I suggest waiting to see if Cyclops hits before you super jump. There is time to see this and make a choice. Also, you don't want to have to end up rushing down Cable or Cyke with Ken, your own Cyke would have a much better chance. By baiting assists, superjumping and kick-supering them. ____________________________________________ Everyone: I have to go to lunch, I'll reply to the rest when I get back hopefully. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 02:32 AM: ___________________________________________ "Beta, I have trouble AHVBing Sent’s HP to short drones or even the drones alone on reaction. I usually just trade hits when I try it. What’s the right way to do it? And if I have cyc, I can call him to eat drones and AHVB, right?" reply: You just have to be fast with the AHVB, and you have to have the timing to do it right after your blockstun ends. All I can suggest is that you practice doing AHVB so that your toe is just off the ground, and see if you can find someone to practice your problem against. Cyclops might give you an extra quarter or half-second to shoot since cycke will cancel the first or second drone, the third drone(if not the second drone) should still hit you if you're not fast enough with the AHVB. ____________________________________________ "Hulk, Can someone give me examples of way wavedash breaks traps like sent/bh, cable/spiral, spiral/whoever and any others? I only know how to beat doom/bh(photons version) with it. Thanks" reply: It's helpful anytime you want to get under someone, or instantly put yourself in a better position to call an AAA. You can wave-dash under Sent when he files around, but its risky. Other than that, you just wave dash when you think you need to. ___________________________________________ "Bomberman, – Around here, lots of guys has pasted the last month practicing cable’s variable counter (psimitar) to ahvb. So, they’re doing it all the time. My question is if I can do any cable/spiral traps or even cable sequences with grenades and vbs against the other characters they play without getting risk of eat a counter into ahvb x 3? Any strategies to be safe against it?" reply: Pay attention to how much meter they have, obviously ater they get 3 or more meters you will have to adjust. You can still spiral wall, just make sure you start to block after the counter, as the scimitar will get hit by knives but he will be juggled and can AHVB before he hits the ground sometimes. If you are Cable, you pretty much play they way you normally do, just be careful when you do those fierce/helper/gernade traps. ____________________________________________ "doombh, quote from jin about spiral vs mags: “make sure you can keep mag off you when storm assist comes out” How to do this? I usually have no time to get out because he’s so fast." reply: You can superjump up and cirlce knife, or just super jump up and fierce him if he gets in front of you. Random J.fierce while calling helpers works wonders on Mag. If the typhoon is coming at you and you have no knives, jump back so that the tornado goes under you and fierce. Fierce late if he is dashing late, and early if he jumps. If he gets in range to hit you, save yourself with a teleport. You have to be quick on the teleport. ____________________________________________ "msf, How to play spiral(using sent or cyc assist, and cable) against doom/bh?" reply: In yesterday's tournament, I had Spiral/Cable/Setinel against that counter team, but I held the assist button to start Cable, and it was a free win almost. Anyways, you can still fight that team with Spiral but you have to be patient. Get knives and keep them. Teleport as necessary and start a knife trap, Doom will superjump out and you teleport above him and call knives. It goes back and forth, but you should be chipping him slightly more than he chips you. Just be quick to get Cable in there with at least 4 meters. Tell me more about his pattern and I can give more advice. ____________________________________________ "Gief, How to play cable(with storm or spiral as battery and cyc as anchor) against a perfect fly cancel sent, with bh? And if I didn’t use any AAA(spiral/cable/sent)? Thanks" reply: It's tough, and in fact I lost to this in yesterday's tournament. You basically are supposed to get knives, and find an opportunity to shoot them off on the ground and use Setinel assist to keep the other Sent locked down. I kept picking AAA's when I should have sticked to my main strat. Anyhow, by the time Cable comes in, Setinel should be chipped half-way or so, if not more. If not, you kind of lost because he can out-turtle your Cable. Otherwise, if the sticks are good you should be able to call spiral and AHVB 5 times to finish Setinel off. ____________________________________________ Just curious: How much time do you play each week? And what about ricky and the other experts you know?" reply: I've been playing about 3 times per week for a few hours against above-average competition. Ricky never plays, or plays rarely. Ricky actually said that its better not to play too much, becuase every time you enter a tournament you are fresh and you can adjust easier than someone who plays with the same people for great periods of time. Ricky used to play a lot, but now he plays once a week or so, and just goes to nearly all the tournaments. ____________________________________________ -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-12-2001).] Posted by Overkill on 03:13:2001 02:35 AM: I do ok against spiral related teams with doom/storm/bh usually about learning commando, should I use him like cyclops mostly?? Commando 101 ?? thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 02:43 AM: "Overkill, do ok against spiral related teams with doom/storm/bh usually about learning commando, should I use him like cyclops mostly?? Commando 101 ?? thanx" reply: I like using commando, he usually comes in by himself or with a helper and usually has 3-5 meters when he does. Time is usually running out. What works for most people is calling some kind of assist like Doom-B or Setinel-C and doing a roundhouse captain kick. This makes you cross over and/or puts you in their face to make them block a ninja or a cross-over. Then people will call some kind of assist, which you fierce corridor and XX sword. You also throw when aplicable, bread and butter combo is J.roundhouse C.fierce fierce flame or kick super(depends on position. J.roundhouse is better then J.fierce. Crouching jab has always had good priority. Mack-the-knife to set up guard-breaks. Captain sword is safe vs a lot of the top tier, but I forgot if BH can HOD you immediately after blocking it. -Micah Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:13:2001 04:44 AM: hey whats up jinmaster, how'd you do at that tourney in sacremento?? anyway what i was wondering is this- ok you know how i was playing that one guy with cable on point and he has cyclops asist with him(and you chose that launcher BH,lol!) well i played his cable like i normally would but got destroyed, what i was thinking was in the begining of the match when cable only had 1 super if i lured him to viper one of my asist,preferably sent wich puts him at 0 supers folowing that i could do a basic wall of swords and call Bh asist none stop giving little chance to get supers,and none to viper me.Does this plan have a chance or do you think hell go strait for meter?? thx! playtime has ended! Posted by Limp_Bizkit666 on 03:13:2001 06:21 AM: once again, my curious self have more questions.. i appreciate your help. i fight against a lot of Sent/Bh trap.. and i know for a fact that if sent does his BOMB squad and not the fast drones, that storm can lightening strikeXXlightening storm... but i also heard that you can just DASH after BH's first hit and betwee SENT's Bombs... is that true? who else can get through that other than spiral? 2. i've seen HSF go PAST cable while he is in HVB, not ahvb... why is that? can this be used in tourney play? is it safe if you can DHC, or was it something i saw that just happned by chance??? thanks for the help again.. good job on the tourney.. bye o(o.o)0 0(o.o)o ------------------ o(o.o)-0(*.0)-o if u dn't gt ths, go fc xr ttrl n pwrhg. Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:13:2001 06:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Captain sword is safe vs a lot of the top tier, but I forgot if BH can HOD you immediately after blocking it. Nope, BH can't punish. I think the only top tier that can punish it are Magneto (D.S.Short -> C.Fierce...), Storm (Short-Typhoon XX HailStorm) and Cable (AHVB). I'm not sure about Sentinel with Fierce-Rocket Punch XX Hyper Sentinel Force though. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by DOA362 on 03:13:2001 09:21 AM: I play Spiral/Cable/Sent team with assists a/b/g/ respectivley. My problem is that I am not very good with sent. My main strat has been to cancel into fly and time repeated lk's while calling Spiral assists. what else do I need. I know the basic traps with the sent force and HSF. Also I use the safe tagout with Spiral to get Cable in to the game so that Spiral can heal and I can use her to trap. My question is what is the best method to get Spiral back on point. She doesn't have a good counter and you can't always get the opportunity to just switch. I have been reading this topic for a while and you have been helpfull. Thanx. Posted by Dasrik on 03:13:2001 10:02 AM: FluffyXXL: Sentinel can do Fierce Rocket Punch XX HSF. Had it done to me. Owch. Limp_Bizkit666: regarding Storm lightning attacking roundhouse drones. Not a safe bet. Opponent can let go of roundhouse soon as he sees Storm coming, and the bombs will drop on her. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 09:20 PM: "MAGUS1234, hey whats up jinmaster, how'd you do at that tourney in sacremento??" reply: Just so you know, you can always find tournament results in the results Forum, but if you want to personally hear what happened, it was like this: I played fine and won every match up till the first 3 out of 5 vs Doug. I heard some stuff prior to the match and let it get to me, and played like shit. I lost 3-0. I immediately had to face the guy I had just sent to the losers bracket in another 3 out of 5, and even though he played the exact same team and did the exact same strategy, I couldn't win. Part of it was the fact that I cannot AHVB x 5 + helper call on Sac Sticks, but most of it had a lot to do with what happened at CVGL. I let my own problems get in the way of my gameplay. I don't care to discuss it further than that, I just know that I need to work on my mental toughness a bit more before I can start dominating the way I know I should. "anyway what i was wondering is this- ok you know how i was playing that one guy with cable on point and he has cyclops asist with him(and you chose that launcher BH,lol!) well i played his cable like i normally would but got destroyed, what i was thinking was in the begining of the match when cable only had 1 super if i lured him to viper one of my asist,preferably sent wich puts him at 0 supers folowing that i could do a basic wall of swords and call Bh asist none stop giving little chance to get supers,and none to viper me.Does this plan have a chance or do you think hell go strait for meter?? thx!" reply: I think Kakarot is experinced enough to not burn a meter on a helper early in the match, so I wouldn't rely on it. It is far more important to not let spiral get beamed overall. I suggest you come up with a way to avoid his anti-spiral tactic of SJ-gernade, S.fierce. I've already figured out what I was going wrong. Do you and Nole want to come over my house on Thursday for some practice? I'm trying to get Lamar and Ricky to be there. ____________________________________________ "Limp_bizkit666, once again, my curious self have more questions.. i appreciate your help. i fight against a lot of Sent/Bh trap.. and i know for a fact that if sent does his BOMB squad and not the fast drones, that storm can lightening strikeXXlightening storm... but i also heard that you can just DASH after BH's first hit and betwee SENT's Bombs... is that true? who else can get through that other than spiral?" reply: Frankly, I've never tried. Seems to me that every time I try to move after the first hit of the inferno, I get hit by the second part. I will have to test this, perhaps by timing a PP? "2. i've seen HSF go PAST cable while he is in HVB, not ahvb... why is that? can this be used in tourney play? is it safe if you can DHC, or was it something i saw that just happned by chance???" reply: As long as the beam is moved so that it cancels the first wave of drones, you should be fine. You can actually be safe with a regualr fierce beam, becuase if you manage to make the beam hit the drones that can hit you, the entire firece takes sent out of the super. "thanks for the help again.. good job on the tourney.." reply: Thanks, although I bombed both MvC2 tourneys IMO. I should have at the very least took 2nd instead of third in both of them, if not 1st. The only thing I'm happy about is my CvS performance. =) Well, taking 3rd 3 times over the course of a weekend is ok I guess. =\ ____________________________________________ "DOA362, I play Spiral/Cable/Sent team with assists a/b/g/ respectivley. My problem is that I am not very good with sent. My main strat has been to cancel into fly and time repeated lk's while calling Spiral assists. what else do I need. I know the basic traps with the sent force and HSF. Also I use the safe tagout with Spiral to get Cable in to the game so that Spiral can heal and I can use her to trap. My question is what is the best method to get Spiral back on point. She doesn't have a good counter and you can't always get the opportunity to just switch." reply: I suggest dashing at people wiht sent and superjumping and mashing roundhouse so that its like an overhead attack, then cancel the ove to flight after they block or get hit, then call an assist and hit roundhouse again, then unfly. That will stop most people. You can also c.fierce from far away, fly, stomp twice, and unfly. Like I said to others, download the vids on this site for more help. As for Spiral, I usually get her back in via a switch when I see a super-jump. It's old-school but the basics on safe switching come into play quite a bit. You'd be amazed how many people switch out just becuase they are about to die without waiting for a good opportunity. "I have been reading this topic for a while and you have been helpfull. Thanx." reply: You're welcome, and good luck to you. ____________________________________________ Dasrik, "FluffyXXL: Sentinel can do Fierce Rocket Punch XX HSF. Had it done to me. Owch." reply: What about from full-screen? "Limp_Bizkit666: regarding Storm lightning attacking roundhouse drones. Not a safe bet. Opponent can let go of roundhouse soon as he sees Storm coming, and the bombs will drop on her." reply: I thought you had to hold down RH to make it drop far, or not hold it at all to make it drop in front of you, but yer saying you can make it drop mid-way? I'm not sure the drones respond on command, it seems pre-set by your startup choice of holsing the button vs not holding it.... am I wrong on this? ____________________________________________ Fluffy, Thanks. Can you make it thursday by any chance? I'm reserving this weekend for Teresa btw. ____________________________________________ Keep the questions coming =) -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-13-2001).] Posted by DOA362 on 03:13:2001 09:40 PM: On the Sentinal dropping the bombs, yes you can make them drop half way. All you have to do is hold the button for the across the screen drop and then anytime you want to drop them early just tap sk. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 10:27 PM: DOA, You mean tap short to make the bombs come out as opposed to roundhouse? Wierd, I'll have to try that. -Micah Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:13:2001 10:38 PM: ya souds good ive got some tricks up my sleeve i wanta show you if you wanta meet up a svgl at like 1:00 or wahtever works for you thatll be cool thx for the reply man ,l8er playtime has ended! Posted by Jinmaster on 03:13:2001 10:49 PM: MAGNUS1234, Can you be there between 3:30 and 4:00 this Thursday? I'll pick you and Nole up there and we may have to go to MPGL to pick up Ricky and Lamar around 4:30. I firgure we'll all chill there, get some food on the way back to my place, then I'll take everyone home around 10:00 or something. -Micah Posted by Dasrik on 03:13:2001 11:50 PM: Jinmaster: It works from across the screen, I'm pretty sure. Also re the drones, you do qcf+rh and then hold rh. Let go of the button whenever you want them to drop, whether it be right in front of you or across the screen... Posted by Iceman on 03:14:2001 04:54 AM: Thanks Jin. I'm still not ready to give up on Spiral/Sabretooth yet, but I know I'm fighting a hard battle to lock people down. Anyway, I have a new question. I've also asked Kakarot for his thoughts on this. I'm cheating, getting two NoCal peeps to help me I'd like to know your opinions on Colossus. I think he's one of the overlooked characters who can really kick ass. Plus, I think he owns Magneto (a character who gives me fits). Problem is, he's worst match is Cable. And who do you see the most? Cable. I use Spiral/Colossus/Blackheart. Start out with standard Spiral/BH trapping and sword mayhem, get a full meter, safe tag the big man in, turn on armor, and give chase, fishing for a launcher into AC. What advice to you have on Colossus if any? "...I'll string you up from a big ass tree, with a sign around your neck that says 'Whack MC'"--MC Hawking Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:14:2001 06:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman: Thanks Jin. I'm still not ready to give up on Spiral/Sabretooth yet, but I know I'm fighting a hard battle to lock people down. Anyway, I have a new question. I've also asked Kakarot for his thoughts on this. I'm cheating, getting two NoCal peeps to help me I'd like to know your opinions on Colossus. I think he's one of the overlooked characters who can really kick ass. Plus, I think he owns Magneto (a character who gives me fits). Problem is, he's worst match is Cable. And who do you see the most? Cable. I use Spiral/Colossus/Blackheart. Start out with standard Spiral/BH trapping and sword mayhem, get a full meter, safe tag the big man in, turn on armor, and give chase, fishing for a launcher into AC. What advice to you have on Colossus if any? He doesn't "own" Magneto, he just doesn't allow Magneto to attack him directly. That doesn't mean "own". Own means to completely shut him down, which Colossus cannot do alone. Mags can still do a Storm-esque meter charge by SJing and repeated Fierces and airdashing to stay above Colossus when he goes into super armor. Basically, you build up a lot of meters at the same time Colussus is using all of his to keep you from rushing down. When his meters are finally gone, Mags is free to rushdown til he gets another. Colossus is more or less delaying the inevitable. Mags can also just Shockwave DHC HailStorm to get out as well and let Storm run away at the top of the screen and do repeated Verticel Typhoons. Basically, Colossus doesn't own magento, just makes his job harder. quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Fluffy, Thanks. Can you make it thursday by any chance? I'm reserving this weekend for Teresa btw. Grr. You want me to cut class? Umm, dude, i've done a bit too much of that lately, but I'll think about it. If Ricky and Mar show up, I'll probably go too. But, I'm not positive yet. After all, I am still trying to be retired... -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Defective on 03:14:2001 07:00 AM: Thanks for answering my question Jinmaster! Now I have another. Are there any good uses for Magneto's reversal's (force field)? I know if my opponent is sleeping I can otg them after the shockwave. Any guaranateed follow-ups? Which is the better one? If don't mind you can list the uses for Cammy and Jill's reversals since I play them with Mags for fun (Team Reversal). Thanks. Posted by Overkill on 03:14:2001 07:35 AM: How are you supposed to wave dash, fast or slowly? If i do it fast i always get low fierce or stand fierce, how do you wave dash without messing up? thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by Jinmaster on 03:14:2001 09:23 PM: ___________________________________________ "Iceman, Thanks Jin. I'm still not ready to give up on Spiral/Sabretooth yet, but I know I'm fighting a hard battle to lock people down. Anyway, I have a new question. I've also asked Kakarot for his thoughts on this. I'm cheating, getting two NoCal peeps to help me I'd like to know your opinions on Colossus. I think he's one of the overlooked characters who can really kick ass. Plus, I think he owns Magneto (a character who gives me fits). Problem is, he's worst match is Cable. And who do you see the most? Cable. I use Spiral/Colossus/Blackheart. Start out with standard Spiral/BH trapping and sword mayhem, get a full meter, safe tag the big man in, turn on armor, and give chase, fishing for a launcher into AC. What advice to you have on Colossus if any?" reply: Well, Colossus is more useful as an assist vs Magneto than as a main character. It is very easy to outrun him when he turns his armor on. There isn't a whole lot you can do with him to get to cable other than being tricky with your jumps, dashes, and charges. Other than that, you will be more likely to nab helpers with his super than you will be to launch the main character if he plays correctly. Your best bet is to use assists to do damage while you rush down, I think BH and Doom might facilitate this. Sorry i can't give more advice, but I think Colossus is a very limited character. ____________________________________________ "Defective, Thanks for answering my question Jinmaster! Now I have another. Are there any good uses for Magneto's reversal's (force field)? I know if my opponent is sleeping I can otg them after the shockwave. Any guaranateed follow-ups? Which is the better one? If don't mind you can list the uses for Cammy and Jill's reversals since I play them with Mags for fun (Team Reversal). Thanks." reply: I'm aware that Mags reversal can be useful, but I haven't played with it enough to even know if I can do a super off of it. It's one of those moves that you can't use very often, and I think the best time to try it is when the game happens to come down to 1v1. I'd give you a better answer, but I just haven't played with it all that much. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, How are you supposed to wave dash, fast or slowly? If i do it fast i always get low fierce or stand fierce, how do you wave dash without messing up? thanx" reply: Two punches simultaneously, hit down almost immediately. Then do it again. It's important to hit down very fast and redo the motion almost as fast. It will sound like you hit the controls twice, becuase you hit down almost immediately after each PP. ____________________________________________ MAGNUS1234, Can you mail me your cell phone at jinmaster@hotmail.com I lost it, and I was gonna see if you guys wanted to play over my place today as a warm up for tomorrow..although I'm not sure If Lamar can make it. ____________________________________________ FluffyXXL, Man, you're not quitting and you know it. It's the same thing every time you have a slump, just be confident and get back on the horse. =) ____________________________________________ -Micah Posted by Shingro on 03:14:2001 11:30 PM: In reference to your answer Jin, I'm willing to learn just about anything, perferably rushdown stuff, I've heard storm can do some crazy things in that respect, I would definately like to keep Jin, his charecter just rocks. ^_^ I know he's not top tier, but you said there is a way to play him tourny level? o_O http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/shingro2.gif Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by Jinmaster on 03:14:2001 11:42 PM: Shingro, At the tourney level, you should use Jin as a primary assist. You should call him after an opponent calls their own assist, or to just get an opponent off of you. Jin as a lot of horizontal range, much more than most people think. Remember, it's all about his B assist. Jin-B will also give you plenty of room to rush people down with Magneto or Storm, and likewise is a good assist to keep an opposing mag off of you. I suggest reading through this whole thread so that you learn what most of the top teams do, and how they work. There are a lot of basic storm tactics within this thread as well. Just remember that when you start to learn her, you should learn how to use her meter effectively. Learn when to chip the opponent with 3-4 hail-storms and when not to. If you have a lot of meter, frying helpers is also good idea. I don't know if you know this, but after a hail you should usually mash an assist and tap fierce and cancel it into a horizontal typhoon before you hit the ground, and at that point you just hail again. You build max meter this way, and you keep yourself semi-safe. ____________________________________________ -Micah Posted by Terazul on 03:14:2001 11:45 PM: Could you explain the Cable/Spiral/Sentinal team please (what type of assits for each character etc.) Thanks quote: All Your Base, Are Belong To Us http://www.geocities.com/zelink15/pictures/himitsu.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 03:14:2001 11:58 PM: "Terazul, Could you explain the Cable/Spiral/Sentinal team please (what type of assits for each character etc.) Thanks" Spiral-A/Cable-B/Setinel-C Spiral gets knives or calls Sent and teleports, and eventually gets knives. Ground trap is 6 knives, call sent, dash in fierce, call knives, repeat. Wall trap is jump up and statt to fall 3 knives, call sent, land up jump 2 knives, recall knives, repeat as necessary. Alternate tactic is superjump up and forward, quick-drop while mashing assist and teleport. Safe-switch Cable or land a metamorph. Land AHVB x ? or chip with 5 x AHVB and 5 X spiral knife assists. Quasi trap is fierce x 4 while mashing spiral, short gernade, repeat. Hold short to make it go farther. Setinel Is there for safe DHC and to clean up and sometimes to eat supers for you. -Micah Posted by Ryu_311Funk on 03:15:2001 02:08 AM: I was wondering how you keep from getting hit out of the Strider/Domm trap, it seems that everytime while im doing a kitty attack after I done a set of Orouboros and Doom is in doing Molecular shield my friend manages to sneak in a short kick and knock me out of the trap in which case he super jumps away, is there a certain distance you should be from your opponent? while calling in your animal buddies? http://fp.geocities.com/dragonkahn/ryu_311funk.gif Posted by Jinmaster on 03:15:2001 02:21 AM: "Ryu_311funk, I was wondering how you keep from getting hit out of the Strider/Domm trap, it seems that everytime while im doing a kitty attack after I done a set of Orouboros and Doom is in doing Molecular shield my friend manages to sneak in a short kick and knock me out of the trap in which case he super jumps away, is there a certain distance you should be from your opponent? while calling in your animal buddies?" reply: You should call doom at the very beginning or start of the trap, and at the end of it. Doom rocks should be being blocked when you hit standing fierce then standing roundhouse which he should also be blocking, you cancel the roundhouse into a kitty and cancel the kitty into uro, you mash the start of uro so rings come out ot make them block, and you teleport on them. There is no room to stick out shorts. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-14-2001).] Posted by Ryu_311Funk on 03:15:2001 02:32 AM: ahhh OK thanks. yeah I see what I was doing wrong now, I was doing three consecutive animal attacks, So I guess the little lag between attacks got me, well at any rate thanks for the help Ill try that out fierce roundhouse cancel kitty cancel orouboros. Thanks again! http://fp.geocities.com/dragonkahn/ryu_311funk.gif Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:15:2001 03:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: FluffyXXL, Man, you're not quitting and you know it. It's the same thing every time you have a slump, just be confident and get back on the horse. =) I'm not having a slump. I'm actually doing better now. But, I'm on the injured/reserve list. I just need some time to heal. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by capcom on 03:15:2001 08:05 AM: It’s possible to see an AHVB coming and still cancel sent’s flight mode(much like spiral teleports)? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:15:2001 08:07 PM: Capcom, You need to unfly when Cable is on level with you, becuase it is not possible to unfly once AHVB starts up. Spiral can teleport becuase she is invincible from her startup, but Sent seems to be vulnerable for at least a frame before he can unfly and put up a block. -Micah Posted by Overkill on 03:16:2001 01:02 AM: when is the best time to jump out of the sent/bh trap that goes something like HSF,low fierce and call bh, short drones, repeat and then just low fierce when they don't have HSF and i'm wondering when is the best time to jump, after the drones or laser and with somebody BESIDES cable thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by OriJINal on 03:16:2001 01:03 AM: Im asking about storm..i cant get her L.AttckXXL. Storm to connect right..it only happens once or twice...is there a special way to do it? Posted by Overkill on 03:16:2001 01:20 AM: i got 2 questions, how do you properly wave dash? are you supposed to do it FAST or fluidly??? if i do it fast i always get a crouch fierce or stand fierce from my character and when is the best time to jump out of the sent/bh trap that is like HSF,low fierce and call bh, short drones,repeat and when there is no meter they just do low fierce into bh and then drones when is the best time to jump out of that, after the short drones or after the low fierce that comes after the drones thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by Jinmaster on 03:16:2001 02:29 AM: "Overkill, i got 2 questions, how do you properly wave dash? are you supposed to do it FAST or fluidly??? if i do it fast i always get a crouch fierce or stand fierce from my character and when is the best time to jump out of the sent/bh trap that is like HSF,low fierce and call bh, short drones,repeat and when there is no meter they just do low fierce into bh and then drones when is the best time to jump out of that, after the short drones or after the low fierce that comes after the drones thanx" reply: 1) Both, do it fast and do it fluid. PP+down, PP+down. Hit down almost at the same time as PP, but not quite simultaneously, then do it again. It's one of those things you just have to keep trying till you get it down cuase I can't really explain it any better than that. 2) The trap you mentioned is inescapable with 2 exceptions, you can variable-switch into a DHC, or you can jump up when BH comes out and not block and try to hold forward/airdash after you get hit. When Setinel has 5 meters there isn't a whole lot of things you can do until he is finished spending them that isn't dangerous. ____________________________________________ "OriJINal, Im asking about storm..i cant get her L.AttckXXL. Storm to connect right..it only happens once or twice...is there a special way to do it?" reply: When you launch hold forward toward the opponent up to when you first hit jab, then let go of the stick so that it is neutral and hit the rest of the buttons until you get to your 4th hit of your SJ combo, then hit short+fierce with the stick still neutral, the defualt direction is straight ahead. Quickly do the HCF+PP when the attack hits. Hope that helps. Just so you know, you should lightning attack twice if you don't plan to DHC since it does more damage(typically aim the second hit up and forward). -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-15-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:16:2001 03:00 AM: I'm adding this post about Sentinel to my thread for reference: "1) the basics: When preforming a basic AC, having trouble with the timing. I plan to practice, practice practice, but I wanna know what AC is most efficient in terms of safety and damage." reply: Launch but jump striaght up instead of up and forward with a 1,2,3,4, fierce rocketpunch, if they are in the corner you can combo a fierce, roundhouse after that, and if you time the fierce, roundhouse correctly you can OTG safely with a J.short, J.fierce. "I have been getting lucky against Cable players that mess up the AHVB, and don't get the A in the AHVB. But seriously, should I referene from using random RPucnhes?" reply: Don't do them randomly, but if Cable ever does HVB on the ground jusr fierce-rocket punch into HSF. Works from full-screen. "Against rush down players, aside from AAA, how should I deal with it using Sent. As of late I have been abusing the SArmour, but I would like alternatives, cause taking damage isn't always the safe play." reply: C.fierce cancelled into flight works well. I usually adivse people who want to learn Sent to download the tourney vids on this site since they are so helpful. I usually jump back with roundhouse and fly away, or jump forward with the same. Random jab and fierce punches also make people thnk twice in my experience. "2) Techniqie stuff... I wanna to know A, how to fly. B does he dash when flies or is he just really fast? C I gathered that canceling the flight is just performing the motion for flight, but how suseptable are you to cable players, and other upper level characters?" reply: Flight is quarter circle from down to back with 2 kicks. He is just that fast, I even thought he was dashing when I was new to the game. You cance flight with the same motion, and you can save yourself from alsmot everything, although you need to cancel flgiht before cable starts his AHVB becuase it takes a frame or two to get out of it and into block. Usually, you can be safe from hailstorm and whatnot. "General methods of space control... As of late I have been jumping kicking, punching and AAA as most of my space control, does it come down to I don't fly as the missing element or is there more?" reply: flying is imporatant but it depnds on when he enters the match and what the situation is. Tell me the the situation and I'll tell you when to fly. However, you generally should fly at random times to keep them guessing. Some people fly and immediately unfly to bait top Cables. Average Cables AHVB for no reason at all so be careful. "Does Sent have any moves with strange priority, or recovery time? ex. cables unussually good priority jumping roundhouse kick." reply: Super jumping roundhouse mashed after leaving the ground works as an overhead, has good range, and can be cnaceled into flight. Jab sucks in close, Sent has horrible throw range, standing short x 2 is much safer but you have to learn the timing. C.roundhouse will catch people who have been pressured to block high too much, and you can try a jab-rocket OTG into HSF and its safe if they roll. "3)Fun stuff I wanna know the sweet looking combos now The opportunities to show boat must be exploited whenever possible..." reply: I listed the only combo that matters, but remember that in DHC's to HSF you can dash forward and launch afterwards sometimes into a SJ 1,2,1,2, air super which resets the DHC #. "Are there any known glitches with Sent. Not in the sense to use, but to know what to avoid." reply: Not that I'm aware of, although I'm not sure Capcom intended for his normal moves to kill people who are blocking becuase Hulk and Jin have to land a hit to kill although their moves chip as well, unless they changed this in MvC2 and I just haven't notcied. "4)Finally I want the all mech team, going with Mega, and Sent, but kinda stuck on the final char. My actual team involves the two above mentioned with Commando, which has gotta be one of the funnest teams I've played... But as far as the theme goes not sure of what direction I wanna go." reply: Blackheart and Spiral are perfect people for him, but a Mech team could be Doom/Sent/Iron-man or something with Ironman on point. I assume you understand how to structure teams correctly so I'll leave the strats to you. -Micah Posted by Fusion on 03:16:2001 03:21 AM: I need help in perfecting my Cable, Iron Man, Sentinal team. My main tactic is having cable out, and assisting with Sentinal's gamma assist repeatedly, and using plenty of guns, viper beams, AHVB's (doubles mainly), and sometimes psytraps. (it's not really a trap, but it keeps them pinned and keeps my cable safe from proton cannons/AHVB's and such, because I can still block after all the moves I do) It makes them open up a lot, to hit my sentinal, that's when I land multiple AHVB's, and sometimes link to proton cannon (depending on Cable's life). If I lose cable, i just use iron man and do his little rocket to unibeam, and try to land proton cannons out of sent's gamma assist. If im left with sent, i just use a lot of fierce+rocket punches, with some HSF's. Any suggestions? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:16:2001 08:46 PM: Fusion, "I need help in perfecting my Cable, Iron Man, Sentinal team. My main tactic is having cable out, and assisting with Sentinal's gamma assist repeatedly, and using plenty of guns, viper beams, AHVB's (doubles mainly), and sometimes psytraps. (it's not really a trap, but it keeps them pinned and keeps my cable safe from proton cannons/AHVB's and such, because I can still block after all the moves I do) It makes them open up a lot, to hit my sentinal, that's when I land multiple AHVB's, and sometimes link to proton cannon (depending on Cable's life). If I lose cable, i just use iron man and do his little rocket to unibeam, and try to land proton cannons out of sent's gamma assist. If im left with sent, i just use a lot of fierce+rocket punches, with some HSF's. Any suggestions?" reply: You need to structure your team so that it flows better, I suggest organizing your team like this: Iron-B/Setinel-C/Cable-B Battery/Primary|Dhc-to/User I suggest learning how to play Ironman really well so that you can bring Cable in with Max life and max supers. You will need to call Sent, super jump up and shoot smartbombs and air dash up. Come down with a knee-stomp and cancel that into flight, and call Sent again. Don't just keep doing c.fierce-unibeams, that will get you killed vs good players. Get Cable in and just play him really well, you can DHC to Setinel HSF from a missed AHVB or an accidental HVB. Quality teams really don't function by playing each character until they die, so try playing with your team order a bit and learning more tactics with Ironman and Setinel. -Micah Posted by RubyHeart4ever on 03:16:2001 09:30 PM: Jin, Thanks for the advice. I started working with a new team the other day. I've still got my orginal team of Ruby, Akuma and Rogue since I'm most comfortable with them but then I started with Ruby, Cable and Doctor Doom. Any advice for me here? I know that the large energy ball super that Doom does is pretty easy and a dangerous cancel with HVB. It doesn't do much hits but it hurts bad. I also know of the Doom/Ruby trap. Anything else I should be aware of? Thanks! -- Ruby "Feel the Partenaire cause' it can't be helped." -- Ruby Heart, MvC2 http://www.khaotika.com/images/Mvc2/gameart/official/rubyheart.jpg Posted by Jinmaster on 03:16:2001 10:04 PM: RubyHeart4ever, "Jin, Thanks for the advice. I started working with a new team the other day. I've still got my orginal team of Ruby, Akuma and Rogue since I'm most comfortable with them but then I started with Ruby, Cable and Doctor Doom. Any advice for me here? I know that the large energy ball super that Doom does is pretty easy and a dangerous cancel with HVB. It doesn't do much hits but it hurts bad. I also know of the Doom/Ruby trap. Anything else I should be aware of? Thanks! -- Ruby" reply: I only use electric cage to catch cable when I block HVB and when I see Kubon do a super. Other than that, I usually just land photon shocks on people and the DHC to cable is actually easier. Ruby/Cable/Doom or Ruby/Doom/Cable will work ok. If you've got the trap down then just battery for cable and get him in there safey, and just use doom as a Primary assist. -Micah Posted by Overkill on 03:16:2001 11:50 PM: jinmaster, that's what i am saying how do you escape the trap when they don't HAVE super, just low fierce and bh, short drones scat scat tat tat Posted by Jinmaster on 03:17:2001 02:04 AM: Overkill, Just super-jump out after you block the C.fierce on the rotation that BH is not coming out. The best he can do is high-fierce on that rotation and hope you bock it, and even then you have time to jump out. Posted by Ironmetal23 on 03:17:2001 07:28 AM: Hey jin how do you get out of that anoying spiral/sent trap I use strider/sent/doom an occasional cable and mag/iron/cyke also how can you do tiger knee on dreamcast its hard thanx Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:17:2001 01:19 PM: What's up, Jin I have this little trick that I've been doing for a while and I noticed that I never read about it here. Since it has been effective to me and some people are already using it around here I will post it to see what you think and if you guys already know about it. This is specially good for Cable against Magneto, or even other Cable(one more reason that I think Cable has at least a fair match against Mags). If you're cable and do a ground throw against someone on the corner(throwing the opponent against the corner) you can immediately jump jab and the jab will connects before your opponent recovers from the throwing animation. You can even put the CPU with all blocking on DC and try it to see how it works. Of course a jumping jab will not be that dangerous, but you can combo it easily into MK, HK, AHVB. It's not possible do follow with other AHVBs after that, but you still are plenty of optioons on that situation. If you have Storm, a DHC will take about 75% damage. If you have Cyc, you can call him while you're falling down to the AHVB and jump to another throw. If the opponent tries to stick a move, Cyc hits. If not, you can go for the throw(it's on the right timing when Cyc is already starting his move but hasn't hitted yet) and if the opponent tech hits, he lands on Cyc(or you can call it a little later and throw the opponent into Cyc's little beam). If I remember right, any of the versions take more than 60% life. I would like to know if you guys already know about it and if you think this can raise Cable's handicap against Magneto(any of both can do a throw into powerful combo in the corner, so this situation is pretty even). BTW, it does not work against heavy characters(Sentinel, Doom) because they fall too fast and you can't do the jumping jab before they land. And it does not work against smaller ones(like Strider) because they go too high and when you can catch them they has already recovered of the throw animation. I'm posting it here so you can test and tell me what you think. I think it's better than create a new thread where nobody reads and I can even get flammed by someone who doesn't understand the engine very well. I have done this several times against other players and it has worked well. On the DC I put the CPU to block all moves and it works everytime, so I'm pretty sure about the tactic(the only way it could not work is if it's kind of a practice mode glitch and all the players I tried it against weren't blocking, I think it would be too much of a coincidence then). So test it and tell me what you think(if you already knew it, then sorry for wasting so much space, but I think it will be new to some people anyway) So that's it, I hope this can be useful. See you later! [This message has been edited by kdcmarvel (edited 03-17-2001).] Posted by CaptainCanada on 03:17:2001 01:32 PM: Hey, Jinmaster. I've been following this thread for a while, and I thought I'd ask a few questions...you rule, btw. 1. Sentinel strategies? I'd like to learn some good tactics for the big lug. 2. Which Cable assist would be best? They all seem to be pretty good, from what I've seen. 3. And finally, who would be a good third member for Cable/Doom? I've seen Blackheart used a lot, but frankly, I don't really have the time or skill to learn BH...is there anybody else? Strider, maybe? Posted by Stormboy on 03:17:2001 02:49 PM: Hi Jinmaster, I am having trouble against doom/bh traps. I usually use cable-a/storm-y/cyc-b...how do i defeat the trap? 1. doom j.fierce, calls bh assist 2. doom sj.photon array, super photon array chips like crazy. I usually have cable in fighting doom..Doom usually sets the trap. 1) how do i break his traps? 2) how i control the tempo of the match afterwards (ie i'll be setting the traps)? Thanks! Posted by CDyer on 03:17:2001 04:07 PM: What is the diffrence between aerial rave and air combo and if there is how do you make it say aerial rave on dreamcast Posted by TimeFlip on 03:17:2001 07:44 PM: First off, I'd like to thank Jinmaster for all the time he put into this thread. He deserves some karma. quote: Originally posted by CDyer: What is the diffrence between aerial rave and air combo and if there is how do you make it say aerial rave on dreamcast It's the same damn thing To stormboy: I recommend using Storm against Doom/Blackheart. You'll need to practice wave dashing. Wavedashing usually works for that trap. If you get control, you'll want to use triangle jumps to rushdown. To captaincanada: I posted on your thread already about sentinel As for cable assists, here's the order: 1.Psimitar(aaa) nice height,fast, and looks cool. 2.Viper Beam(projectile) sets up combos, fast, does 4 hits. 3.Elec-Trap(capture) the worst one, as you can't control the release and has slowest wind up. Concerning your teams, I think your team should be doom/strider/cable Doom builds meter, and you can do the ghetto version of doom/blackheart with cable's anti-air(not as good though). Get strider in and chip with strider/doom. When strider's almost dead, use doom and sj fp/lk traps. If someone is attacking doom, AHVBx5 To KDCMarvel: Nice. I should try that some time. In my arcade we do something like,launch(jump straight up,jp,sk,jp,AHVB) The hardest part of that combo is launching with cable To Ironmetal23: You could try super jumping and throwing photons with doom, throwing smart bombs with iron man(I believe there is a video of this). The better is Doom, since the photons should cancel the swords. I don't have a dreamcast so I can't help you with that. Now for my question: Who is a good teammate for Spiral/Sentinel? What assists would they use? I've been considering Juggernaut B and Doom A Some people tell me Doom B is better, but... Which is better, chipping or screen control? Thanks for all your help Posted by OriJINal on 03:18:2001 12:54 AM: this is a wierd question...ok say i call out an assist Sents Gamma for example...now the oppnent blocks the rockets..i wish to throw ther opponent while hes blocking..i relize i cant do this while the rockets ar hitting him..when CAN i throw the opponent though? WHen is the earliest possible timing to be able to throw a person after an assist? Posted by TimeFlip on 03:18:2001 01:06 AM: There are two people I want to throw with: CapCom and Spiral. Mashing takes off a lot of damage. I hope you're using one of the two. If not, then don't throw. So anyway you have to wait until they are out of block stun. Posted by achamp on 03:18:2001 09:52 AM: How to protect my Cyclops assist for the BBHood/Hulk?Juggs triple combo? If I sj, he dies! I use storm, spiral or cable with him. Posted by le on 03:18:2001 10:00 AM: I play magneto/cable/sentinel. A friend of mine plays spiral/cable/cyc. Everytime my magneto dies, he usually has cyc assist really hurt(lots of drones). Then, specially if he’s out of cable, he keeps teleporting with one of the punch buttons above me and I barely cab hit him, so Cyclops recovers all his energy after some time. Can you give me ideas for catching his teleport strategy using cable/sent, sent/cable or any of them alone? Thanks!( Posted by KenIsDope on 03:19:2001 12:25 AM: i need some stratigies for Doom/Akuma/IM WORD! Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:19:2001 01:18 AM: hey whats up mica hey did you go to that tourney at berkley?? well anyways for your sent strats eairlier on the thread i have a new combo with him that does 100% in corner_ fk,jump up forward lk lp mk mp-pause-fp throw-pause-lk fierce rocke punch,fp,pause,fk,land rejump lk,fk cool huh it kills cable playtime has ended! Posted by Shingro on 03:19:2001 09:41 AM: alright, my Storm game sucks really really bad, being that I don't really have the time/competition, I'm working on my old team moded a bit, I have Felicia/Jin/Rogue, ground/AAA/throw respectfully, if rogue's throw hits, then I can go into either Saotome cyclone, or Onigai tatsuke (which can be linked to Cyclone if need be (recomended? or save the super?) depending who's on point. One problem I can see from here is lack of projectile support (besides felicia and she dies kinda easy) My other problem is getting the rogue assist to hit, best I've gotten now is crossing up, then letting off so they back up right into it. Also, I haven't worked on rogue for a good LONG time... and the only thing as Gamefaqs.com suggest that her AAA is best assist... and so seems a little odd to me. (mentions somthing like power drain can end almost all her comboes?) so now that I'm resigned to a non-top tier team, could I get some good strats for them? Also perhaps a good staple combo to use? My biggest thing I need to know though, it what to expect, I have very little experience against GOOD keepaway ppl, I've ALWAYS been able to dash+jump+block close enough to use Jin's AAA assist and shock them out of everything. what can I expect that will give me hell? ;p oh, I was thinking I might be able to start Felicia's rolling uppercut/launcher infinate off of Jin's assist. o_O haven't gotten it to work yet, but I'm not exactly an infinate master... Do you know anything about this? sorry to trouble you again... Thank you for all your help ^^ http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/shingro2.gif Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:19:2001 10:14 AM: Hey Jinmaster, How good do you think a team consisting of BH/Storm/Cyclops would be? The DHC's are friendly, most traps can be broken by the 3, the assists aren't shabby at all, and I can run with Storm after getting a good lead by landing a HOD DHCed to Hailstorm. Comments, suggestions, weaknesses? Thanks in advance. "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by goodmove on 03:19:2001 12:36 PM: It’s possible to lightnig strike out of BH’s assist on reaction(see the icon and then do the move)? I can’t do it.Is it useful, or it’s better to always air dash out of it(faster and easier)? Posted by moderator on 03:19:2001 12:38 PM: How to beat that BH/Cyc tactic that you and fluffy tested(the view from here thread) using: a) cable/cyc b) storm/cyc c) spiral/cyc d) cable/spiral, storm or sentinel Posted by g on 03:19:2001 12:45 PM: Is Ricky's main team magneto/storm/psylocke now, or it's just an option that he's practicing instead of spiral/cable/sentinel? Do you know which teams and characters Ricky considers the best in the game? Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:19:2001 11:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by goodmove: It’s possible to lightnig strike out of BH’s assist on reaction(see the icon and then do the move)? I can’t do it.Is it useful, or it’s better to always air dash out of it(faster and easier)? You can't lightning attack on reaction. You have to lightning attack in anticipation. Basically, you have to do it before BH comes out in order to get enough speed to fly past it. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Terazul on 03:19:2001 11:30 PM: Jinmaster, If you were to replace Cable with Blackheart in the Spiral/Cable/Sent team... how would you want to use him? Thanks quote: All Your Base, Are Belong To Us [img]http://www.geocities.com/rubyeye_shabranigdo/pics/himitsu.gif [/img] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:20:2001 12:04 AM: "Ironmetal23, Hey jin how do you get out of that anoying spiral/sent trap I use strider/sent/doom an occasional cable and mag/iron/cyke also how can you do tiger knee on dreamcast its hard thanx 7" reply: You can either wait to super-jump or just mash on your Setinel assist until he comes out. Super-jumping out is actually faster and calling your own setinel will help you find a window. You have to learn the timing based on how well they do the trap and what version of the trap they are doing. ____________________________________________ "kdcmarvel, What's up, Jin I have this little trick that I've been doing for a while and I noticed that I never read about it here. Since it has been effective to me and some people are already using it around here I will post it to see what you think and if you guys already know about it. This is specially good for Cable against Magneto, or even other Cable(one more reason that I think Cable has at least a fair match against Mags). If you're cable and do a ground throw against someone on the corner(throwing the opponent against the corner) you can immediately jump jab and the jab will connects before your opponent recovers from the throwing animation. You can even put the CPU with all blocking on DC and try it to see how it works. Of course a jumping jab will not be that dangerous, but you can combo it easily into MK, HK, AHVB. It's not possible do follow with other AHVBs after that, but you still are plenty of optioons on that situation. If you have Storm, a DHC will take about 75% damage. If you have Cyc, you can call him while you're falling down to the AHVB and jump to another throw. If the opponent tries to stick a move, Cyc hits. If not, you can go for the throw(it's on the right timing when Cyc is already starting his move but hasn't hitted yet) and if the opponent tech hits, he lands on Cyc(or you can call it a little later and throw the opponent into Cyc's little beam). If I remember right, any of the versions take more than 60% life. I would like to know if you guys already know about it and if you think this can raise Cable's handicap against Magneto(any of both can do a throw into powerful combo in the corner, so this situation is pretty even). BTW, it does not work against heavy characters(Sentinel, Doom) because they fall too fast and you can't do the jumping jab before they land. And it does not work against smaller ones(like Strider) because they go too high and when you can catch them they has already recovered of the throw animation. I'm posting it here so you can test and tell me what you think. I think it's better than create a new thread where nobody reads and I can even get flammed by someone who doesn't understand the engine very well. I have done this several times against other players and it has worked well. On the DC I put the CPU to block all moves and it works everytime, so I'm pretty sure about the tactic(the only way it could not work is if it's kind of a practice mode glitch and all the players I tried it against weren't blocking, I think it would be too much of a coincidence then). So test it and tell me what you think(if you already knew it, then sorry for wasting so much space, but I think it will be new to some people anyway) So that's it, I hope this can be useful. See you later!" reply: Hi KDC, When you set the computer to "all gaurd", it will NEVER block when landing from ANY throw. The combo will be for sure if you set the game to manual and have a second player actually holding down block on the stick/pad. It is possible that this will combo but I beleive they can recover and block, and its possible that your opponents were trying to do something other than block. I will test this when I find the time. I orginally thought that a S.short quickly would juggle but I found out the hard way that ALL GAURD in training mode is jacked up. ____________________________________________ "CaptainCanada, Hey, Jinmaster. I've been following this thread for a while, and I thought I'd ask a few questions...you rule, btw. 1. Sentinel strategies? I'd like to learn some good tactics for the big lug." reply: Well, this thread has general strategy for Setinel already. There isn't much for me to add other than the fact that you typically cancel everything into flight and everything done in flight to out of flight. From there you just need to learn how to combo HSF into itself and there isn't much more to playing him oustide of experience. Try playing a straight grounded Setinel(fierce+qcf-short drones) as well as a flying setinel that calls assits with stomps. Then learn to mix it all up. "2. Which Cable assist would be best? They all seem to be pretty good, from what I've seen." reply: His AAA is his best as it can be used in Variable switches into AHVB. He will usually get one hit off as a normal assist, and that hit always makes whatever character fly far and away, giving you control. "3. And finally, who would be a good third member for Cable/Doom? I've seen Blackheart used a lot, but frankly, I don't really have the time or skill to learn BH...is there anybody else? Strider, maybe?" reply: The problem with any combination of Doom/Cable is that typcially the whole team wants the meter and most of the time your characters are batteries for themselves. I've always thought that Doom/strider/Cable was weak becuase of this. If you want to use Cable and Doom together, I suggest putting Spiral on point. ____________________________________________ "Stormboy, Hi Jinmaster, I am having trouble against doom/bh traps. I usually use cable-a/storm-y/cyc-b...how do i defeat the trap? 1. doom j.fierce, calls bh assist 2. doom sj.photon array, super photon array chips like crazy." reply: 1) Put storm first, call cable-A when you are blocking the second fierce where BH is leaving. Doom will land on the viper-beam assist. 2)You can also lightning attack and hit doom but thats risky if he knows to air dash up and back and photon super you. 3)You can also SJ out when BH is not in and toss a gernade if you are cable, air dash up and vertical typhoon if you are storm. 4)Or you could stay on the ground and try to stick out a horizontal typhoon between fierces and bh, or if you are Cable, quickly AHVB between feierces when BH is not assisting. 5)As storm, Variable switch to cable-AAA when you block the second hit of BH and do a quick AHVB off the scimitar assist. 6)You can in fact wavedash under that stuff. "I usually have cable in fighting doom..Doom usually sets the trap. 1) how do i break his traps?" 2) how i control the tempo of the match afterwards (ie i'll be setting the traps)? reply: Cable standing fierce X 4 while calling storm, cacel last fierce into a short-gernade. Or, call storm-y or storm-A and superjump up and toss gernades. As storm you can just rush that shit down with triangle jumps and horizontal crosses. If you need more help let me know. ____________________________________________ "Cdyer, What is the diffrence between aerial rave and air combo and if there is how do you make it say aerial rave on dreamcast" reply: Its the same thing, different words. You can't make it change as far as I know. ____________________________________________ "Timeflip, Who is a good teammate for Spiral/Sentinel? What assists would they use? I've been considering Juggernaut B and Doom A Some people tell me Doom B is better, but... Which is better, chipping or screen control?" reply: The accepted teams are currently Spiral/Sent/BH and Spiral/Cable/Sentinel. I've talked about this a bit throughout the thread. As for your last question, I think doom-B is the best assist for Doom in nearly all cases. You can't rely on just spiral traps to win games, using doom-B effectively is much better. I only use Doom-A against magneto teams and possibly other keep-away teams. You can find ways to call Doom-B in their face by making them block a round of knives, the best Spirals win becuase of how well they play outside of traps. Thanks for helping me out btw. ____________________________________________ "OriJINal, this is a wierd question...ok say i call out an assist Sents Gamma for example...now the oppnent blocks the rockets..i wish to throw ther opponent while hes blocking..i relize i cant do this while the rockets ar hitting him..when CAN i throw the opponent though? WHen is the earliest possible timing to be able to throw a person after an assist?" reply: It depends on the assist, remember that all assists in the game carry the same properties of the moves they are mimmicking(outside of glitches). Different moves and specials cause differnt amounts of blockstun. You cannot throw until someones blockstun ends, and its up to you to learn the moves and specials that cuase the least amoount of blockstun so that you can attempt throws earlier. ____________________________________________ "achamp, How to protect my Cyclops assist for the BBHood/Hulk?Juggs triple combo? If I sj, he dies! I use storm, spiral or cable with him." If you call him and you know he will try to kill him, AHVB as Cable, tyhoon as storm. ____________________________________________ "le, I play magneto/cable/sentinel. A friend of mine plays spiral/cable/cyc. Everytime my magneto dies, he usually has cyc assist really hurt(lots of drones). Then, specially if he’s out of cable, he keeps teleporting with one of the punch buttons above me and I barely cab hit him, so Cyclops recovers all his energy after some time. Can you give me ideas for catching his teleport strategy using cable/sent, sent/cable or any of them alone? Thanks!(" reply: With Setinel its quite easy, you just need to fly and stomp all over her, fierce her out of the air, etc. With Cable, just be patient. Use standing fierce a lot. If she blocks s.fierces, maker her block a round of drones along with a fierce-viper-beam. If she teleports when you fierce, call setinel and she cannot land on top of you, but she can teleport low and grab you, so be ready to tech. If not she will combo you, but most spirals arent tricky enough to teleport low. When he teleports when nothing is happening, you can try to superjump up with jabs and stuff and sometimes you will catch him trying to teleport above you. You can also call sentinel and super-jump up and throw a long gernade, land with fierce to pressure her further, and AHVB those knife calls. ____________________________________________ "KenIsDope, i need some stratigies for Doom/Akuma/IM" reply: Make your team Akuma-C/IM-B/Doom-B Play normally while going mostly for crossups with Doom/B and air-fireball rain. When you get 2-3 meters your target combo is launch into spin-kick XX air-fireball into DHC proton cannon on any main character. From there, you have Doom second and Akuma last. Play Ironman by SJ up and raning smartbombs, flying while calling Doom, and crossing over and doing it again. Otherwise play solid as possible and call doom when you can keep him safe. Play the rest of the team 1 after the other. If you find that Doom has high health, and you have some meter, try to switch him in when its safe and have a quick Phooton array DHC cannon somwhere else in the game. ____________________________________________ "MAGNUS1234, hey whats up mica hey did you go to that tourney at berkley??" reply: Nope, spent the whole weekend with Theresa. =p "well anyways for your sent strats eairlier on the thread i have a new combo with him that does 100% in corner_ fk,jump up forward lk lp mk mp-pause-fp throw-pause-lk fierce rocke punch,fp,pause,fk,land rejump lk,fk cool huh it kills cable" reply: You'll have to show me that sometime this week eh? Maybe tomorrow or the next? Sounds good. Too bad you couldnt make it last Thursday, it was fun. ____________________________________________ "Shingro, alright, my Storm game sucks really really bad, being that I don't really have the time/competition, I'm working on my old team moded a bit, I have Felicia/Jin/Rogue, ground/AAA/throw respectfully, if rogue's throw hits, then I can go into either Saotome cyclone, or Onigai tatsuke (which can be linked to Cyclone if need be (recomended? or save the super?) depending who's on point. One problem I can see from here is lack of projectile support (besides felicia and she dies kinda easy) My other problem is getting the rogue assist to hit, best I've gotten now is crossing up, then letting off so they back up right into it. Also, I haven't worked on rogue for a good LONG time... and the only thing as Gamefaqs.com suggest that her AAA is best assist... and so seems a little odd to me. (mentions somthing like power drain can end almost all her comboes?) so now that I'm resigned to a non-top tier team, could I get some good strats for them? Also perhaps a good staple combo to use? My biggest thing I need to know though, it what to expect, I have very little experience against GOOD keepaway ppl, I've ALWAYS been able to dash+jump+block close enough to use Jin's AAA assist and shock them out of everything. what can I expect that will give me hell? ;p oh, I was thinking I might be able to start Felicia's rolling uppercut/launcher infinate off of Jin's assist. o_O haven't gotten it to work yet, but I'm not exactly an infinate master... Do you know anything about this?" reply: I'm not an expert on MvC2 infinites, I think felica's is not very practical. There's not much I can do with your team becuase all but 1-2 of the top teams would take it apart. You have to be very unpredictable with Rogues assist, if you call it early then they will be ready for it later. Wait until you have max meter and then try to land her so you can combo a powerful DHC. When using rogue, you typcially need a stronger chipping assist like doom, so you can just Sj. Down+roundhouse all day while calling doom. You can use Jin but he doesn't chip very much and the opponent can just call AAA's to knock you out eventually. Your team's biggest prblem is a lack of air-control. Felecia's sand kick and Jin's assist as well as Rogues assist all handle the ground very well but against things like flying setinels and run-away storms you have nothing to help you. You must learn to structure your teams so that you can apply DHC's eccectively while not being extremely weak in any one area. Another proboem your team has is that it needs to get in to do damage. Other than supering assists, you have no outlet for your meter that doesn't rely on getting in close. That's usually why you need at least one top-tier person, becuase they give you something your weaker team would normally lack. ____________________________________________ "DarthSalamander, Hey Jinmaster, How good do you think a team consisting of BH/Storm/Cyclops would be? The DHC's are friendly, most traps can be broken by the 3, the assists aren't shabby at all, and I can run with Storm after getting a good lead by landing a HOD DHCed to Hailstorm. Comments, suggestions, weaknesses? Thanks in advance." reply: That team can win but I'll tell you what it's biggest weakness is: people who are patient. Your team has no way to do immediate damage to someone blocking other than whipping out 5 hailstorms with BH calls or rushing in with Storms dashes while hoping Cyclops can set something up. A patient opponent with something like Commando-AAA can just sit there with just about anyone on point and corridor your helpers with near impunity. In fact, Commando assist would give your entire team problems. Another problem I see is Iceman, since the only person on the team who can actually damage him is Storm. Really, anyone like Cable or Setinel can really hurt your team becuase you need to land a clops/BH infinite before you switch out in order to have a game that isn't in anyone's hands. I highly suggest Cable on your team instead of Storm. He won't help vs Iceman but he will surely be able to keep opposing assists off the screen better than storm can. ____________________________________________ "goodmove, It’s possible to lightnig strike out of BH’s assist on reaction(see the icon and then do the move)? I can’t do it.Is it useful, or it’s better to always air dash out of it(faster and easier)?" reply: Always air-dash, its much safer and has no startup, the only way to use lightning attack to dodge it is if you are already in motion or if your opponent is just mashing BH without any timing. ___________________________________________ "moderator, How to beat that BH/Cyc tactic that you and fluffy tested(the view from here thread) using: a) cable/cyc reply: Call cyke when BH is coming down to short you after the air dash, super-jump up with Cable when you find a window, and AHVB any screwups by BH. It's tedious but you will have a window just by staying mobile and pushblocking different parts of the trap. "b) storm/cyc" reply: Same thing, but Hailstorm at the right time and catch BH when he throws demons. You can also lightning attack forward when he first superjumps to screw up his trap. "c) spiral/cyc" reply: Be patient, use your own cyke to create an opening to call knives, or teleport above BH. Then be patient to shoot knives, create an opening to pin him down. He should have to block a 2 knife-round minimum plus helpers. That more than evens it. "d) cable/spiral, storm or sentinel" reply: Setinel can eat a full J. roundhouse and keep his super armor. Other than that, you just have to play very patient vs the BH/cyke crap. ____________________________________________ "g, Is Ricky's main team magneto/storm/psylocke now, or it's just an option that he's practicing instead of spiral/cable/sentinel? Do you know which teams and characters Ricky considers the best in the game?" reply: His first team is Spiral/Cable/Sentinel, which if he cannot win with he will resort to his business team of Cable/Storm/Psylocke. ____________________________________________ -Micah Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:20:2001 12:30 AM: ya hit me up on teusday cause today(monday) i gotta sign up for foothill "sigh" btw i beat ricky and kim with my spiral team (just had to tell someone) playtime has ended! Posted by TimeFlip on 03:20:2001 12:42 AM: Oh well yeah you answered everyone's questions. So anyway I'm wondering who's good with Anakaris? And how about this team: Anakaris(Throw)/Cyclops(AAA)/Blackheart(AAA) Which assist for Anakaris, and your comments on this team. me-"I'm trying to get at least one person to play Anakaris in the tournament" Posted by Jinmaster on 03:20:2001 01:55 AM: "Magus1234, ya hit me up on teusday cause today(monday) i gotta sign up for foothill "sigh" btw i beat ricky and kim with my spiral team (just had to tell someone)." Since I haven't played anyone good since Thursday, mind outlining the matches, who used what, and what happened? It would be a good read for anyone who frequents the thread. If you don't have time I'll understand. =) Anyways good job, and hopefully we can meet up sometime this week. ____________________________________________ "Timeflip, Oh well yeah you answered everyone's questions. So anyway I'm wondering who's good with Anakaris? And how about this team: Anakaris(Throw)/Cyclops(AAA)/Blackheart(AAA) Which assist for Anakaris, and your comments on this team." reply: I think Cyclops is a must on this team due to the infinite and his general usefulness, and while I prefer to have Storm on the team I think that your team can win if you use Cyclops as the Primary assist. Just put Anakaris first and BH second. Do the BH/clops trap which I'm sure everyone knows about by now after you have meter from anakaris. Do the inferno XX hod and it should combo off the Anakar throw assist. Cyclops can combo supers after the throw assist. His throw assist is definately his best assist. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:20:2001 01:56 AM: Double post, my bad. [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-19-2001).] Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:20:2001 04:26 AM: naw its cool im bored anyway, well they both played magneto psylocke and storm but ricky's was alot better so ill explain that match ok i played spiral(projectile)sentinal(ground)cable(antiair)in that order ricky played mag(projectile)storm(projectile)psylocke(antiair)t hat order strangely enough his magneto was easiest to beat every match because my spiral sent lockdown took a dexcent chunk every time but when he escaped i was still in better possistion if he superjumped with mag to escape id either what for the airdash so i know its safe to do the circle swords.if he dashed downwards id either jump back mashing on swords or wait for a pushblock oppurtunity, but what screwed me up sometime is the priority of psylocke,id jump back like i said but for the second i couldnt block or i shot a sword it come out and go through and hed continue to this rediculiosly long magneto combo(psy asist hits-mag does clk cfk hypergrav cfp then superjump to the throw were you get frozen before youd land off the second bounce hed dash in and hit psy asist and fk at the same time after the fk hypergrav then launch to tempest-unmashable)after his magneto died his storm was a hundred times harder to kill.my spiral,usually would be near full health or near dead so judging by how my spirals health was,was how the match would end.Something stupid i did was play spiral till she died almost everytime,and when i think about it if i would of swiched to sent when storm came in and gotten storm in the HSF spiral asist trap i would of done 100% better,wich in the two matches i beat him is what i did.but his storm would crossup my cable for the usual air combo canceled into psylocke butterfly special.It was pretty hard to kill his storm with cable and aintiair to back him up and by the time cable was hurt too badly i couldnt waste 2 supers to safe swich either because i didnt have them or because hed change his tactic to hurt my asist instead of point leaving me with stalling to give sent health and bar.but when sent came out the most i could do is HSF over and over and fly cancle fly to throw him off.also what i learned is when playing sent vs mag or storm its really usefull to throw out jabs earlier than you normally would to stop him from airdashing for a throw wich is how sent gets destroyd.another thing is wait to use cable antiair when you have enough time for cable to recover and still have controll over space or else his mag will swoop in on a vulnurable character. the match vs kim was similar but his mag was more predictable and had less controll nonetheless a verry skilled player. hope this helps for some ppl ohh ya dont foget rickey and kim beat me like 6 times before i adapted to thier style so in no way am i better than them im trying though\ hey mica craig(who sucks)actually did better than noel did,LOL! noel almost got perfected by ricky's mag playtime has ended! Posted by Overkill on 03:20:2001 06:56 AM: Can you give me some tips to using Capcom as an assist and using him on point when i have nobody backing him up. Thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by Shingro on 03:20:2001 08:26 AM: despite how bleak the outlook is, thanks for the help ^_^ http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/shingro2.gif Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:20:2001 08:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Hi KDC, When you set the computer to "all gaurd", it will NEVER block when landing from ANY throw. The combo will be for sure if you set the game to manual and have a second player actually holding down block on the stick/pad. It is possible that this will combo but I beleive they can recover and block, and its possible that your opponents were trying to do something other than block. I will test this when I find the time. I orginally thought that a S.short quickly would juggle but I found out the hard way that ALL GAURD in training mode is jacked up. _-Micah When I tested the CPU was blocking after the throw if I didn't do it too fast, and that's why I said Strider can't be a victim of it(he goes to high and can always block when you reach him). However, these glitchy things that happen on training mode can be strange, I remember that I think I had a sj. GB a while ago, but it didn't works(of course) against persons. It's possible that my "tactic" is really some flaw of the game(maybe I just get my opponents by surprise then). I think I will have no chance to test it against someone until next tuesday, so let me know if you have any news and thanks for the help. BTW, I replied to you in another thread when you say that Anakaris infinite doesn't works on DC and I think you didn't saw it. It works, but you have to do Cyclops, sj. mummify move(whatever the name is). It's even easier, but you have to skip the LK, MK part. Try it out and let me know. Too much DC for me, I think it's time to play at arcades a little more... See ya! Posted by DennisSI on 03:20:2001 09:02 AM: Hey magus1234 i go to foothill also.. Do u ever go to sunnyvale golfland? cuz i always see ricky there and u said u played him Posted by Jinmaster on 03:20:2001 08:15 PM: MAGUS1234, I don't suppose you caught anyone with that random plasma storm as Setinel? =) I won't be going to the arcade today, but do you guys want to go tomorrow? My GF and I will be there for a while tomorrow. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, Can you give me some tips to using Capcom as an assist and using him on point when i have nobody backing him up?" reply: Well, his bread and butter combo is J.roundhouse, land, C.fierce, fierce flame. His super combo is J.roundhouse, land and dash forward with C.jab, C.fierce, kick super. His helper and mistake punisher is dash in fierce-cooridor XX captain sword. His space controller is Mack the knife and the Ninja, depending on the situation. His captain kick is ok, but make it so you do it from half screen so if you do the roundhouse version you will land far away, as if you land close you will be vulnerable. Try to sneak in kick throws and mash the shit out of them. ____________________________________________ "Shingro, despite how bleak the outlook is, thanks for the help ^_^" reply: Sorry I couldn't help more. ____________________________________________ "kdcmarvel, When I tested the CPU was blocking after the throw if I didn't do it too fast, and that's why I said Strider can't be a victim of it(he goes to high and can always block when you reach him). However, these glitchy things that happen on training mode can be strange, I remember that I think I had a sj. GB a while ago, but it didn't works(of course) against persons. It's possible that my "tactic" is really some flaw of the game(maybe I just get my opponents by surprise then). I think I will have no chance to test it against someone until next tuesday, so let me know if you have any news and thanks for the help." reply: All I know is that the computer dummy in all-guard in training mode will never block when landing fro a throw. I won't be able to test it for sure untill wednesday. "BTW, I replied to you in another thread when you say that Anakaris infinite doesn't works on DC and I think you didn't saw it. It works, but you have to do Cyclops, sj. mummify move(whatever the name is). It's even easier, but you have to skip the LK, MK part. Try it out and let me know. Too much DC for me, I think it's time to play at arcades a little more..." reply: I guess the DC doesn't like that move after connected normals on a super-jump... I guess. I'll have to learn the timing for that then. =( Yay, one more thing I have to try out. Heh. ____________________________________________ "DennisSI, Hey magus1234 i go to foothill also.. Do u ever go to sunnyvale golfland? cuz i always see ricky there and u said u played him" reply: Magus and I both go to SVGL regualrly. I think you will see us there wednesday after 4pm sometime. ____________________________________________ -Micah Posted by MAGUS1234 on 03:20:2001 11:54 PM: ya i go there all the time so does jinmaster well usually be playin the same team(hell be beating me)if you see me say whats up i always wear a green GAP hat have i played you by any chance? ohh ya tommorows better anyway and if your not busy friday we should kick it ps if your going to go to the mvc2 touney at svgl saturday we should practice (my mag is getting hella good) playtime has ended! [This message has been edited by MAGUS1234 (edited 03-20-2001).] Posted by TimeFlip on 03:21:2001 12:05 AM: Jinmaster, you keep answering everyone's questions before I do...oh well So anyway, I was just wondering if you use Anakaris. Do you plan on using him at B5 if you go? me-"I'm trying to get at least one person to play Anakaris in the tournament" Posted by Comic Book Guy on 03:21:2001 01:03 AM: Hi Jin. Nice thread ya got going here... Anywayz, I came up with a team of Dhalsim B, Storm A, CapCom B. Which, I thought had the potential to be the ultimate runaway team based on all the stuff I heard about them here. Dhlasim runs like hell with Strom end commando backing him up and doing some damage. Commando himself is anti-runaway. Strom can be DHC-ed in after Dhalsims punch super with the famous hail storm, and choose to do some damage or just continue runnung. Anywayz, I'm looking for your opinion and some of the basic combos for Storm and Dhalsim. As well as there basic runaway patterns. Thanks Posted by TimeFlip on 03:21:2001 01:43 AM: POST AT MY COMBO HELP IN GENERAL DISCUSSION!!!! So anyway Yoga FirexxHail Storm does pretty good damage. I don't play with Dhalsim much though. However, CapCom AAA helps with Dhalsim's runaway game. Dhalsim has infinite mid-air teleport, as well as an air dash to abuse. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:21:2001 03:08 AM: "MAGUS1234, ya i go there all the time so does jinmaster well usually be playin the same team(hell be beating me)if you see me say whats up i always wear a green GAP hat have i played you by any chance? ohh ya tommorows better anyway and if your not busy friday we should kick it ps if your going to go to the mvc2 touney at svgl saturday we should practice (my mag is getting hella good)" reply: Tomorrow is cool, but since when does SVGL have tourneys on Saturdays? This is too late notice, I'm going to great america with my gf on saturday, but are you guys cool to go to Sacramento this Sunday? ____________________________________________ "Timeflip, Jinmaster, you keep answering everyone's questions before I do...oh well So anyway, I was just wondering if you use Anakaris. Do you plan on using him at B5 if you go?" reply: I wrote what I know here: ****Ive been experimenting a bit more with him, and he seems useful as a Spiral counter. I drop sarcophs far to stop her keep-away, and when she teleports I do a close one and it smacks her. I can randomly do the sarcoph-drop super and I put Storm second in order to DHC to safety or to catch a teleporting spiral. Also, the accepted 100% with him is to do this combo: Dashing C.2(call cylops AAA), C.2, SJ. 2, 2, mummify special, repeat. The second hit of the AC will knock them into cyclops and your mummify speical will hit. From there you just do it again cuase they can't do anything after they are mummified. You could also just launch into 1,2, back-forward+PP, mash the shit out of it, cancel to hailstorm. That does massive damage if you mash long enough and DHC at the last possible second. His throw assist is mad good at stopping traps since he becomes invincible once he grabs, I've secaped Sent/BH traps just by mashing on him. His assist also lets you do things that are normally unsafe, like making another cable block your cable's C.short C.forward. S.roundhouse chain. If you call Anakar during the roundhouse the other Cable can only do ducking moves, if he tries to AHVB or stand up he gets thrown and you get free AHVB x whatever. I haven't found a perfect team for him yet, but I think Anakaris-B/Storm-A/Clops-B works best. Storm can easily combo a launch after a landed anakaris assist and she can use Clops for an AC setup: she can dash and and SJ and do her AC. Clops can use anakaris with his meter-building strat, every time you land it, you get to dash over and S.roundhouse x 2 into a kick super which you hold straight and mash and slightly move up. -Micah note: The 100% infinite with Clops does not work on the Dreamcast.**** No, I would only try him in desperation vs Ricky, and I'd probably still lose. =) ____________________________________________ "Comic Book Guy, Anywayz, I came up with a team of Dhalsim B, Storm A, CapCom B. Which, I thought had the potential to be the ultimate runaway team based on all the stuff I heard about them here. Dhlasim runs like hell with Strom end commando backing him up and doing some damage. Commando himself is anti-runaway. Strom can be DHC-ed in after Dhalsims punch super with the famous hail storm, and choose to do some damage or just continue runnung. Anywayz, I'm looking for your opinion and some of the basic combos for Storm and Dhalsim. As well as there basic runaway patterns." reply: This thread already contains information on how to run away with storm and to do her combos. I can't combo with Dhalsim other than a simple launch into kick super. What you can try to do is get to do a normal jump and air dash-up and teleport, then air dash up and teleport. When you are at the correct part of the screen, where you are half on it, continue to teleport and air-dash across the screen while calling commando assist. -Micah Posted by Scottalfonz on 03:21:2001 03:16 AM: Hey Jinmaster, I like using strange teams for some reason. This makes it harder for me because there aren't many strategies used for these teams. One team I'm having a lot of trouble developing is Jin/Akuma/Magneto. Please enlighten me with some strategies Posted by Overkill on 03:21:2001 03:37 AM: Hey jinmaster, thanx for the help with capcom, but what is better to do after a blocked set (usually something like low shortx2, low fierce)corridor or mack? also is dashing fierce into that spinning knife guy good?? After I set up the guard break what should I do?? the kick super? thanx scat scat tat tat Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:21:2001 05:04 AM: Hey JM, Great Thread. Question. I'm using a new y-Spiral team and am looking for something in specific to complement her. Here's what I need in a partner: (1) A highly damaging Team Hyper Combo that doesn't strike the opponent before Spiral is done, and doesn't lift the opponent off the ground during the THC. (2) An assist that lends itself to a wall of swords, or other sword-based trap. So far I think it's y-Doom, but there's gotta be something a bit better. Any suggestions? As many as possible would be appreciated. Thx. -DFA Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:21:2001 08:30 AM: Hey Jinmaster, I think this might of been posted earlier but I'm having trouble finding it in the 14 or so pages: What is THE counter team to Spiral/Cable/Sent and why? I play one particular person I would like to try it on. Also what is you general opinion of BH/Cable/Cyke? I'm sorry if this was already discussed I looked though the pages and didn't find it. "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:21:2001 08:41 AM: Originally posted by Jinmaster: reply: All I know is that the computer dummy in all-guard in training mode will never block when landing fro a throw. I won't be able to test it for sure untill wednesday. The computer can block in this sometimes, Jin. If you try this throw into jab that we're talking about against him, he'll block(that's another reason that convinced me that the thing was real, but read below). The bad news: I tried it(my arm pressing back at one stick and my hands playing the other ) and it really doesn't work on vs mode. Too bad, my discovery means nothing. Time to try some new things, I guess reply: I guess the DC doesn't like that move after connected normals on a super-jump... I guess. I'll have to learn the timing for that then. =( Yay, one more thing I have to try out. Heh. You'll have no trouble with it, I think it's easier than the LK, MK version. See ya! Posted by color_wolf on 03:21:2001 02:16 PM: I just need a litle help in beating either mag or storm with Cable. Both of them keep rushing right into me when i jump and stuff and i can't ahvb them cause it goes right past them. When they send out their assist i try to ahvb them but then mag or storm are already in my face to stop me from ahvb and then air combo my ass. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:21:2001 09:20 PM: "Scottalfonz, Hey Jinmaster, I like using strange teams for some reason. This makes it harder for me because there aren't many strategies used for these teams. One team I'm having a lot of trouble developing is Jin/Akuma/Magneto. Please enlighten me with some strategies" reply: Make your team Magneto-A/Jin-B/Akuma-C Your team isn't very DHC friendly, but you can go from a mag tempest AC into a DHC Great Cyclone. Jin is your primzry assist so you should only DHC to the Great Cyclone when you know it will result in a kill, that means don't mess with it in the corner. So you basically play basic magneto rushdown, using Jin to knock out other assists and such and Akuma assist to set up grav-tempests. DHC to Jin if you have to kill someone, which puts your team at Jin/Akuma/Mag. Since you should only DHC in order to kill, you will have time to immedaitely switch charcters without fear of punishment. Switch in Akuma so your team is now Akuma/Jin/Magneto. With akuma, your target combo is a launch into 1 jab into a hurricane kick for 3-4 hits into an air-super-fireball. If you land the first DHC I talked about and then this combo and you haven't been hurt significantly, I would start to run away. Superjump away, toss some fireballs if they have no way to stop you, otherwise keep jumping away since you should have a fat lead and can just wait for mistakes. Remeber that Jin is just there for assists and easy DHC's. Don't use him on point any longer than you have to becuase Jin is very predictable. ____________________________________________ "Overkill, Hey jinmaster, thanx for the help with capcom, but what is better to do after a blocked set (usually something like low shortx2, low fierce)corridor or mack? also is dashing fierce into that spinning knife guy good??" reply: If they block a fierce you should do the ninja helper becuase they will almost always have to block it after a chain(and it chips more than his other moves). Might be risky vs Cable if he pushes early so don't do it when you see a push vs him. If Cable blocks the ninja you are safe. Your tactic of dash fierce into Mack the knife may be kind of tricky, I suppose it might confuse some people to a point. Just don't overdo it. =) "After I set up the guard break what should I do?? the kick super?" The most damaging GB is mack the knife and have them land on top of a fierce flame and immediately Captain Sword close up. This doesn't always work becuase it's so hard to do, I suggest going to a corridor after Mack the knife(make sure you do it after the gaurd goes away), and just captain sword from there. I've never actually done this but there is no reason it shouldn't work. ____________________________________________ "DeathFromAbove, Hey JM, Great Thread. Question. I'm using a new y-Spiral team and am looking for something in specific to complement her. Here's what I need in a partner: (1) A highly damaging Team Hyper Combo that doesn't strike the opponent before Spiral is done, and doesn't lift the opponent off the ground during the THC. (2) An assist that lends itself to a wall of swords, or other sword-based trap. So far I think it's y-Doom, but there's gotta be something a bit better. Any suggestions? As many as possible would be appreciated." reply: You don't even need to pick gamma to kill something in one triple-team super. The best version of this I remember is Tom Cannon's Spiral-A/Cable-B/Jugg-B. What you do is glitch jugg and get spiral in, and then try to land a jab-strong-fierce on someone while mashing jab during the firece to shoot off the rest of your knives and hit the triple team buttons before the fierce comes to an end. It does mad damage when glitched jugg comes out and the HVB finishes them off, and all of the knives hit. One of Spirals problems is that people can call assists vs her all day, so use Jugg to punish whiffed assists as well. You could pick Cable-A to facilitate your trap, or you could keep him on anti-air and just use Jug as a Primary assist. Hope that helps. ____________________________________________ "DarthSalamander, Hey Jinmaster, I think this might of been posted earlier but I'm having trouble finding it in the 14 or so pages: What is THE counter team to Spiral/Cable/Sent and why? I play one particular person I would like to try it on." reply: My opinion on this has changed. I now feel that Cable/Storm/AAA can handle Spiral teams based on the following: I once said that Spiral vs Setinel is in Spirals favor becuase if she is played perfectly throughout the whole match then Setinel should never touch her. Her biggest problem is that her margin for error is very high and she can't afford to make any mistakes. To some degree, this is true, but in the end no one plays perfect for that long and will eventually get smacked by a rocket-punch or two and everything goes back to square 1. And is Setinel is played very well then Spiral is bound to make mistakes that she can't afford to make in the first place. Keep in mind that with the right assists she can still pin Setinel down until he dies though, but it's not easy to get to that situation. So a Cable/Storm/Psylocke or clops can beat it, but if you want my more definiate answer to it, Spiral/Setinel/BH has a definate advantage over it. You still have to out play their team, but the point is that you should automatcially win the Spiral/Spiral fight(spiral has BH problems in general), and you can take away half of Cable's life if you do the BH/sent trap. From there you can turtle all match. You have to have a really good Setinel to win this fight though. Viscants answer to the fight is either Ruby/Storm/Doom or Setinel/Storm/BH. You can download the ruby video. The purpose of the second team is to stomp on Spiral's head and use random fierces to escape traps. Flying while calling BH is very good vs Spiral, just make sure you dodge the Cable-AAA and short-forward-upward-rocket-punch him till Spiral knocks you out of it or teleports behind you. If she tries to reload call BH while continuing to juggle Cable and Cable will be dead or almost dead. 5 level 100% death combo after you put storm in front is combo into AC lightning storm, DHC HSF, launch into 1,2,3,4, air super, Armageddon, hailstorm. "Also what is you general opinion of BH/Cable/Cyke? I'm sorry if this was already discussed I looked though the pages and didn't find it." reply: I think it's a good team, but I don't think it beats Setinel for free, as some people might have you beielve. If Sentinel eats the Sj roundhouse then BH can't do his cross-up becuase Sent wont be in blckstun and call call assists or dash over and be free to control the match. Once you are flying above BH and are stomping on him, there is nothing he can do but call assists. If he calls one just fly backwards and cancel flight and do a HSF when you land, if he superjumps up you can call your own BH, or if its a storm team you can DHC to her if BH tries anything in the air. ____________________________________________ kdcmarvel, I tried it last night and it works(the anakaris thing). The timing and position are very important and if you try to muffify too soon then they will just get hit and be normal like usual. =( It appears that you must mummify off the optic bullet and no sooner. ____________________________________________ "color_wolf, I just need a litle help in beating either mag or storm with Cable. Both of them keep rushing right into me when i jump and stuff and i can't ahvb them cause it goes right past them. When they send out their assist i try to ahvb them but then mag or storm are already in my face to stop me from ahvb and then air combo my ass." reply: Put an anti-air assist on your team like Cyke-B or Psylocke-A or Commando-B and then call them just before you AHVB your helper since they are right in your face when their assist is on the screen. Your assist will either hit them or push them back, and you have a free AHVB kill on their helper. ____________________________________________ Good questions! =) -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-21-2001).] Posted by TimeFlip on 03:21:2001 09:36 PM: To scottalfonz: Magneto(Projectile) Jin(AAA) Akuma(Expansion) Magneto uses Jin's aaa to knock back enemies, and Akuma's Expansion to set up Hyper GravxxTempest Jin needs projectile assists to help from long range, and can use Akuma's assist to set up the Blodia Vulcan. Akuma can use Jin's AAA to knock back enemies. To Overkill: I like to do the Ninja after a blocked chain, but I guess Mack would be good if they jump. Dashing fiere into Mack or the Ninja is pretty good. But don't use the fat baby missile. What is this guard break though? Jab punch and land? I guess CorridorxxSword is good, and the kick super would probably work. To DeathFromAbove: Let's see: B.B. Hood/Spiral/Juggernaut works. It works best if Juggernaut does it, however, for some reason it's different on each side of the opponent. B-Doom works best for the Wall O Swords for the chipping, but A-Doom works for screen control. Oh well he beat me to it. I just got finished with my exams today So anyway who do you play with Jinmaster? me-"I'm trying to get at least one person to play Anakaris in the tournament" Posted by Jinmaster on 03:21:2001 10:00 PM: Timeflip, I play one of the following based on how I feel at any given tournament at any given time: Spiral/Cable/AAA or Sentinel Spiral/Sentinel/BH Cable/Storm/AAA Doom/Storm/AAA or Setinel Sentinel/Storm/BH Those are my main teams and I usually pick the AAA based on my opponents team. I would use Magneto and Strider/Doom more often but I don't trust most sticks to let me do what I have to do with those two. If I did use them, it would be as a counter. -Micah Posted by Stormboy on 03:21:2001 10:25 PM: Thanks for replying to my cable/storm vs doom/bh question. I'll try wavedashing, before i tried with cable and did HVB by accident, but with storm, you can't do her supers by accident (her punch super is hcf, not qcf). BTW from your above message, >Those are my main teams and I usually pick >the AAA based on my opponents team. Just curious which AAA do you actually pick against what teams? and why? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:21:2001 11:19 PM: Stormboy, Different AAA's have different properties, and becuase I know all of them I can use that information to my advantage every time someone pick their characters before I do. I pick Ken against teams that start BH, becuase Ken rips through the entire strategy. The last time I did this I failed becuase they guy was so careful, but Ken will always go through everything in the game and will always be useful against strider/doom and Doom/BH. Cammy is a great Doom killer. Doom can't jump forward and fierce becuase cammy assist pops out too far. He cannot do air photons at any time unless he has air-dashed to the top of the screen. Doom's favorite distances are covered almost perfectly by Cammy. So when I see a Doom-on-point team, I'll do the Cable/Storm/Cammy thing. Commando also rapes blackheart, and does a number against a Setinel assist. Commando is what I use against people who have to rely on being in the air to win, but who do not have Storm on their team. I dislike commando assist against Storm becuse it's so easy to dodge with air-dashing, and half the time you call him you can't stop him from being hailed. Otherwise, he's just a great assist and is quite deadly for the last 35-40 seconds with 3+ meters. I pick Cyclops or Psylocke when I just know I am going to need that in-close-priority that will naturally give me follow-up combo opportunites. Against Magneto and another cable, this is key. The last anti-air is BH, who is very team-dependant. His primary use for me is to stop storm from running from me or a Spiral from owning my air-sentinel. As an alternative to theses AAA's, 2 more need to be mentioned. Setinel-C is great as an alternative to an AAA when you know you will have to face any spiral/crossup team. He has super armor and will almost always not get stuffed. Doom-B is excellent at both chipping and setting up combos and I use him frequently against teams that rely on Commando AAA since Doom will almost always win. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-21-2001).] Posted by Scottalfonz on 03:22:2001 02:19 AM: Thanks for the help, Just wondering if I should get SF3:double impact or SF3:third strike? Posted by Jin on 03:22:2001 02:30 AM: If you want the newest and most played Version, buy 3rd strike. They won't be incuding either game in any major tournaments in the US after this year, if it all. -Micah Posted by cheungk on 03:22:2001 03:24 AM: "All I know is that the computer dummy in all-guard in training mode will never block when landing fro a throw. I won't be able to test it for sure untill wednesday." hey... I'm wondering is there any way to get the computer in training mode to block... the default is the computer standing there.... I can get the computer which moves around... but is there a mode where computer will just sit there and block so I can test chip damage/practice strider/doom? =) Posted by DarthSalamander on 03:22:2001 06:23 AM: Thanks for the reply. I have more counter team madness. Today I played a pretty solid Strider/Doom/CapCom and got whupped. What really gave me fits though was the Capcom assist. To build meter for Strider, Doom would dash forward, call Capcom AAA, sj photons * 2, and repeat. The photons covered his dash forward, and then Capcom was in my face. Of course the Strider/Doom mayhem ensued, but the Capcom AAA was the thing that really stopped me. Any suggestions? I can or will play anyone, so strategies for various characters are apprecited, even if they are longshot ones(like for BH). Also to follow up on counter teams for Spiral/Cable/Sent, how about Doom/Storm/BH. After seeing Nyte give Duc's Spiral in one of the SRK.com vids, I figure Doom and BH can stall and build meter, and if Spiral teleports Doom can Photon Array into HailStorm, giving Storm hopefully on good lead which to run with. As always, thanks for the help. Also what do you think of Storm/BH/Sent. I'm sorry to keep asking these type of questions, but where I live I don't get too much exposure to new teams etc. A lot of people just copy what I do(shrug). "You spoony bard!" - Tellah(he died for you) [This message has been edited by DarthSalamander (edited 03-21-2001).] Posted by bomberman on 03:22:2001 08:13 AM: When Sent goes out of the flight animation, is he at j. or sj. mode? Can I guard break it? Posted by zz on 03:22:2001 08:18 AM: – After block a grounded HVB it’s best(faster) to do lightning attack, lightning strike or dash/wave dash into a combo? And if it’s the second, should I atart it with LP, LK or directly into the HK? Posted by bbb on 03:22:2001 08:29 AM: – With cable, are there any situations when you should hold grenade down while already doing other moves? Which ones? How do you do it? I hate play megaman because I can’t hold a button while playing, and the same applies to hold a grenade, even for little time(of course if I don’t have to do any other moves while at it I can do it easily). Posted by achamp on 03:22:2001 08:39 AM: How cable/storm/psy beats spiral/cable/sent in a experts match(like ricky vs duc, if you know it)? And what if I change psy for Cyclops? Posted by msf on 03:22:2001 08:58 AM: With storm or cable on point, and cyc as the anchor, what can I do to avoid/counter Spiral’s circle of swords into metamorph? The spiral player having his usual assists, of course(sent, cable, cyc or bh). Posted by CDyer on 03:22:2001 09:15 AM: My team is Cable,Cyclops,and Black Heart I use Cable to start. I always start the match with two lk and a crouching hk then assist with BH then jump gun,gernade then gun 3 times on the second gun assist again the jump gun gernade then repeat.I use Cyclops to chip with mega optic blast.I use BH to assist then ground combo with cyclopes. I keep Cable atleased at 3/4 health. Posted by Gamerzr0 on 03:22:2001 12:51 PM: Whenever I do spirals wall of swords, people seem to jump out rather easily 3 down and 3 up right while jumping up and down right? Also what are points in the BH/Doom trap? With Doom as point...I notice when I was playing against Doom while he was jumping w/fierce laser and calling BH assist, I couldn't AHVB whenever I tried my AHVB attemps I was just SJ and pushblocking in place of where the AHVB should have came out. So any suggestions? Thanks. "You must remember never underestimate your opponent" Posted by Jinmaster on 03:22:2001 10:06 PM: "cheungk, "All I know is that the computer dummy in all-guard in training mode will never block when landing fro a throw. I won't be able to test it for sure untill wednesday." hey... I'm wondering is there any way to get the computer in training mode to block... the default is the computer standing there.... I can get the computer which moves around... but is there a mode where computer will just sit there and block so I can test chip damage/practice strider/doom? =)" reply: You don't have to worry about that becuase you aren't throwing them. Just put the dummy in all gaurd and go to town, just rememeber that you won't be able to test the damage correctly becuase the computer will heal too fast to keep the trap going to the point where there is no gap for him to recover life. You might be able to do it but I'm sure it would be difficult. You might be able to avoid this if you go into vs mode and just have someone or one of your feet do the blocking. ____________________________________________ "DarthSalamander, Thanks for the reply. I have more counter team madness. Today I played a pretty solid Strider/Doom/CapCom and got whupped. What really gave me fits though was the Capcom assist. To build meter for Strider, Doom would dash forward, call Capcom AAA, sj photons * 2, and repeat. The photons covered his dash forward, and then Capcom was in my face. Of course the Strider/Doom mayhem ensued, but the Capcom AAA was the thing that really stopped me. Any suggestions? I can or will play anyone, so strategies for various characters are apprecited, even if they are longshot ones(like for BH). Also to follow up on counter teams for Spiral/Cable/Sent, how about Doom/Storm/BH. After seeing Nyte give Duc's Spiral in one of the SRK.com vids, I figure Doom and BH can stall and build meter, and if Spiral teleports Doom can Photon Array into HailStorm, giving Storm hopefully on good lead which to run with. As always, thanks for the help. Also what do you think of Storm/BH/Sent. I'm sorry to keep asking these type of questions, but where I live I don't get too much exposure to new teams etc. A lot of people just copy what I do(shrug)." reply: You could probably take down the whole Doom/Commando thing with a Cammy assist, and if you want to get really technical, a Ken assist will work wonders against the whole team. If you want a stone-cold counter team, I would go Cable/Storm/Cammy. With this, doom won't be able to battery worth a damn and 1 strider mistake = his ass. You could probably do the same thing with psylocke instead of cammy but cammy is more of a no-brainer. Nyte's team counters somewhat effectively, although Duc could have afforded to start Cable and just ruin the whole Doom/Storm combo. Thats whay I did vs someone who tried to counter-team me last time I went to folsom. Lastly, the team should be Setinel/Storm/BH, which does a fairly good number on Spiral. She eats a rocket-punch or a few stomps almost for sure, and she can't dodge HSF becuase Storm is second. ____________________________________________ "bomberman, When Sent goes out of the flight animation, is he at j. or sj. mode? Can I guard break it?" reply: I beleive it is SJ mode becasuse whenever he cancels it he can block and he cannot call assists while falling after a cancelled flight. ____________________________________________ "zz, – After block a grounded HVB it’s best(faster) to do lightning attack, lightning strike or dash/wave dash into a combo? And if it’s the second, should I atart it with LP, LK or directly into the HK?" reply: If you are full-screen or so vs a ground HVB then lightning-attack into lightning storm. If you are close you can dash forward into a straight launch, or if you want to do a longer combo you can if you are close enough(throw a damaging assist in if your team allows for it). I lightning attack when I'm far, I straight launch when I'm close, usually. ____________________________________________ "bbb, – With cable, are there any situations when you should hold grenade down while already doing other moves? Which ones? How do you do it? I hate play megaman because I can’t hold a button while playing, and the same applies to hold a grenade, even for little time(of course if I don’t have to do any other moves while at it I can do it easily)." reply: You only hold the button to affect the time and place the gernade will explode. Holding it down will not slow down anything becuase you can't do anything while throwing a gernade other than a super. Once the gernade is out you can do things while holding the button, but most people use it as the last part of a trap. Just try holding down short until the gernade explodes, and also try hodling ti down and letting it go right as you throw it so it explodes right above your head. When you get that down you will slowly gain more conntrol becuase you will understand how it works. I really only hold it when I do a jumping gernade or a short-gernade trap. ____________________________________________ "achamp, How cable/storm/psy beats spiral/cable/sent in a experts match(like ricky vs duc, if you know it)? And what if I change psy for Cyclops?" reply: Cable wins by playing incredibly solid and by avoiding the trap. Cable usually super-jumps up before he gets trapped and throws a gernade and does a jab beam on the way down. If Spiral didn't teleport, she will have to let cable do fierce x 4. You call Psylocke at any point to stop teleports and knives. Cable can use his AAA to get out of the basic trap. Eventrually Spiral will get hit by an AHVB or just be pretty hurt and call a helper which will get AHVBed and she will teleport to save it but get hailstormed for her trouble. No one has a true advantage but I think that Cable can win at the expert level becuase traps can't be relied upon at the expert level, and thats what Spiral is for. Cyclops isn't as effective as Psylock as an assist becuase PSylocke sets up AHVB at a lower arc and has more invinciblity frames. However, I still feel and always have felt that Cyclops is a far better point character. ____________________________________________ "msf, With storm or cable on point, and cyc as the anchor, what can I do to avoid/counter Spiral’s circle of swords into metamorph? The spiral player having his usual assists, of course(sent, cable, cyc or bh)." reply: I'm not sure I understand, if they combo a circle-knife into you and to the metamorph then you can't avoid it. If they just do a metamorph and try to set you up for a grab then there are several things you can do, anyhting from calling Cyclops at the proper time to rushing at Spiral to running away. Not sure I understand the question... ____________________________________________ "Cdyer, My team is Cable,Cyclops,and Black Heart I use Cable to start. I always start the match with two lk and a crouching hk then assist with BH then jump gun,gernade then gun 3 times on the second gun assist again the jump gun gernade then repeat.I use Cyclops to chip with mega optic blast.I use BH to assist then ground combo with cyclopes. I keep Cable atleased at 3/4 health." reply: And the question is? If you want my opinion on it, I'd say start BH so you can do teh BH/cyke trap which has been talked about already. When you have meter for Cable, get him in. Then you have a dangerous Cable. Put Clops last. ____________________________________________ "Gamerzer0, Whenever I do spirals wall of swords, people seem to jump out rather easily 3 down and 3 up right while jumping up and down right?" reply: People have gotten much better at jumping out of the trap, but if you are at the correct screen distance(just beyond half-screen), and you do 5 knives instead of 6 when your assist is out, you should be able to keep the bigger characters pinned for a few rotations. The ground trap is much better. Load knives, make them block or get hit by a S.fierce and shoot off all your knives and call Sentinel-C, then load up again. "Also what are points in the BH/Doom trap? With Doom as point...I notice when I was playing against Doom while he was jumping w/fierce laser and calling BH assist, I couldn't AHVB whenever I tried my AHVB attemps I was just SJ and pushblocking in place of where the AHVB should have came out. So any suggestions? Thanks." reply: Do the AHVB on the rotation that BH is not on the screen, where you see Doom start the J.fierce, you won't be in any stun during this period so there wont be any push-blocking. If they super jump on the rotation that does not involve BH, you should wave-dash under his shocks or do whatever your team can do to hit Doom. ____________________________________________ -Micah Posted by Fakefist on 03:22:2001 10:19 PM: Hey there JM, I was looking through your posts, and thought of a question that might help a bunch of people (including myself, of course): What are the key uses of different characters on a team, and what are some commonly seen examples of each? To make myself clear, there are battery characters, assist characters, trappers, blah blah blah, and teams are made with these characters in a particular order to create a dynamic. I thought this would be helpful to people in that it would assist them in creating their teams and better understanding the dynamic and synergy of the teams they make (again, including myself). I don't think anyone would listen to me if I tried it, so I think you should . Thanks, -Q. Posted by Fakefist on 03:22:2001 10:22 PM: Almost forgot. While you're at it, you should start a new thread -this one's getting ungainly. Unless you're going for size, it would be more manageable to look through that way. Keep it up! -Q. "I know what thug is and know that it ain't you/I know what talent is and it ain't in your crew" ::Illogical, '3rd degree':: Posted by TimeFlip on 03:22:2001 10:29 PM: I've tried to help out Jinmaster by making a post dedicated to combos in MVC2... I hope people post there... me-"I'm trying to get at least one person to play Anakaris in the tournament" Posted by Jinmaster on 03:22:2001 10:58 PM: "Fakefist, Hey there JM, I was looking through your posts, and thought of a question that might help a bunch of people (including myself, of course): What are the key uses of different characters on a team, and what are some commonly seen examples of each? To make myself clear, there are battery characters, assist characters, trappers, blah blah blah, and teams are made with these characters in a particular order to create a dynamic. I thought this would be helpful to people in that it would assist them in creating their teams and better understanding the dynamic and synergy of the teams they make (again, including myself). I don't think anyone would listen to me if I tried it, so I think you should" reply: That is the goal. Some people just figure it out, and some people just never get it. They explain in this very site why Spiral/Cable/Clops won at B4, how the team operates, etc. Countless good players here at SRK have outlined their top teams and how they function. This is the best I can do: Understainding MvC2: #1)How does your team control space vs how does the opponent team control space? A)Who has the advantage in space control? B)How do you work around the apparent disadvantages in space control? C)How does your opponent work around your advantage in space control? #2)How does your opponent deal his damage and how do you deal damage? A)Do you do it through DHC's, or just a point character with assists? B)What does the opponent do? C)Relative to space control, how will you inflict enough damage to give you a substatial lead, and what must you do vs your opponents team to maintain that lead? 3)What is my team order? A)Is it DHC friendly? B)Do I want to put my meter spender second or last? C)Will I be able to optimally control space with my order against my opponets order? 4)How do other common teams need to be played/fought with my team in order to win? If everyone asked themselves these questions while playing and watching MvC2, or reading about MvC2, they would automatically get better. There is no 1 or I in the word TEAM, many people don't understand that. I wish people ONLY had problems with #4, as it would make my job a lot easier. Unfortuantely, many people don't have the time or will to get that deep into it all, and I understand that. I really have no problem helping people with the basics of team dynamics, but if people ask me "what are all of Ryu's good combos?", I'm going to send the to gamefaqs without hesitation. I don't care to help the lazy. =) I also don't see any reason to make more than 1 thread, if you are keeping up with the thread you just need to click on the latest page to see whats up. I kind of like having it all in one place for people to access as well as a kind of game diary for myself so I can see my own evolution in thought. This thread has actually helped me with my game, in a strange way. ___________________________________________ Timeflip, I hate helping people with combos unless they just don't understand the timing of the most used ones. So thanks for helping out on SRK in that department. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-22-2001).] Posted by Fakefist on 03:22:2001 11:05 PM: JM, from where I stand, that's a perfect checklist of fundamentals. Thanx. -Q. "I know what thug is and know that it ain't you/I know what talent is and it ain't in your crew" ::Illogical, '3rd degree':: Posted by Jinmaster on 03:22:2001 11:06 PM: I figured I'd add a part #5) How well does you team function in regard to the clock? Can it catch up? Your opponents team? -Micah Posted by Fakefist on 03:22:2001 11:13 PM: Hey, while I'm here JM, I wanted to ask you what you thought of my "quadrant" idea of space visualization that I posted in DFA's thread. Do you think that's a useful concept or not, and why? thinking about it, I've already started to add more detail to it (like dividing each quad into another quad), but the foundation seems ok right now. How do you visualize or conceive of spacec in MvC2? I'm curious... OK, this is the last question for a bit, then I'll leave you alone. Thanks, -Q. "I know what thug is and know that it ain't you/I know what talent is and it ain't in your crew" ::Illogical, '3rd degree':: Posted by Jinmaster on 03:22:2001 11:39 PM: Fakefist, I've been thinking about this for a while, and what it comes down to for me is a little different. A good team should be able to apply offensive pressure to any given part of the arena within 1 second or less. Example: Strider-B/Doom-B/commando-B Strider can teleport fullscreen and mash on commando assist or dash forward or back and call commando assist and can therefore apply pressure to any part of the screen excecpt for the very-very tip-top of the screen in less than 1 second. When strider comes in contact with a character, he calls doom and throws a cat and does a Uro. This dominates the entire area in front of him as rings, rocks, cats, sword swipes, etc all fill the area the opponent is in. Is it the most balanced team in the game? No. Does it have a shot against non-stone-cold-counter teams? Absolutely. To me, this is one of the major reasons the top characters are on the top tier: they can threaten you from full-screen on their own. Now I have yet to find a team that can cover all areas of the screen optimally with a balanced degree of effectiveness. All teams have weaknesses, although some have more than others. The team I mentioned has a few major weaknesses, the most obvious of which is the assists themselves. Neither of the two assists have enough invinciblity frames and pixels to beat the standard invincible AAA you see in top level play. This means that you can't use your Doom-assist as a means to stop a jump in becuase #1 the rocks appear at his feet and #2 he has no invinciblity frames and therefore any serious AAA will knock him out of it. A good player will understand this and either use commando or call doom but jump up and fierce to keep people from hitting him, although either may be vulnerable to the opponents AAA. Understanding how to apply your assists vs other assists as well as knowing what the point characters can and will do at any given moment is just as important as understanding space control. Space control means nothing if you can't apply it in an ever-changing matchup against a non-patterned opponent. People complain about MvC2 allowing someone to do the same thing over and over again. They don't understand that the match is so long and the engine is so open that it allows you to do one set of moves more than once, but doing the same set over and over again puts one in a position to be punished by any capable player with a balanced team. I have covered how to use assists and the best times to call them. I have covered space control and all the top teams and to some degreee how they operate. You can't rely on this knowlege alone to make you a capable player, becuase the second something comes along that you have never seen before you will flat-out loose. This is the main reason you shouldn't play too much. Only play serious people and don't waste your time with the iceman/guile scrubs at the mall(unless they talk too much). Serious players think about the games they play, they don't mind losing over and over, and they try to get better. I'm not sure how I should go about ending this post, but if it brings out any discussion I'll just worry about it then. -Micah Posted by Bruton on 03:23:2001 05:23 AM: Hey Jinmaster, Two things in MvC2 have been bugging me. The first is the Sentinel stomp thing mentioned earlier... that's not flying shorts, is it? Sentinel has extreme maneuverability while he's flying and can potentially avoid anti-air, but it seems to me that flying low like that would be BEGGING for the opponent to switch for a "free" pummelling on Sentinel? The second is undizzies. What status are people in when they come out of them? Is it normal jump/Can they be guard-broken out of an undizzy? -Bruton Posted by msf on 03:23:2001 08:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: reply: I'm not sure I understand, if they combo a circle-knife into you and to the metamorph then you can't avoid it. If they just do a metamorph and try to set you up for a grab then there are several things you can do, anyhting from calling Cyclops at the proper time to rushing at Spiral to running away. Not sure I understand the question... Sorry, I meant blocked circle of knives into metamorph, I saw Duc doing it on the vids... Posted by Geog on 03:23:2001 05:31 PM: Mr Jinmaster, Do u have any strategy on performing mag. aircombo>hyper gravitation>magnetic tempest and i want to which button i exactly need to press for his whole set of air combo, thx. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:23:2001 08:10 PM: "Bruton, Hey Jinmaster, Two things in MvC2 have been bugging me. The first is the Sentinel stomp thing mentioned earlier... that's not flying shorts, is it? Sentinel has extreme maneuverability while he's flying and can potentially avoid anti-air, but it seems to me that flying low like that would be BEGGING for the opponent to switch for a "free" pummelling on Sentinel?" reply: Only bad Sentinels will rely on flying, stomping, and calling assists alone. When I do choose to fly, I usually set it up. I dash forward and superjump up with a roundhouse which will hit a croucching opponent. I immedately cancel that roundhouse into flight. Now what I do from there depends on the opponents character and assists. Sometimes I will call an assist and stop with roundhouse and unfly to cancel the roundhouse. Somtimes I will fly backwards and pick at them with short maybe twice and unfly immediately. Sometimes I will cross over in flight while calling an assist, stomp once on the other side of them with roundhouse and cancel it. It depends entriely on what their team is capable of. Switching is very dangerous becuase if I happen to fly cancel and you switch into by block, I get a free 50-100% on that character depending on the situation. You have to mix up when rushing down with Setinel so much that the opponent will second guess what they do. "The second is undizzies. What status are people in when they come out of them? Is it normal jump/Can they be guard-broken out of an undizzy?" reply: Honestly, I don't know. It's very rare for people to undizzy since most people feel that the damage you deal based on the effort you put out is not worth it. A few rotations of the BH infinite with a subsequent inferno XX HOD does more damage than a 56-hit infinite. But if you want to know what I think, I believe they cannot be touched on the way down from an undizzy, but I'm not positive. =( ____________________________________________ msf, Spiral cannot grab you until your gaurdstun goes away. Many top players like Duc know when your guard will go down. I suggest 1 of two things: A)Push-block the last possible knife or B)Variable switch If you are coming in after a character death, I would try to pushblock at the last second, and if you have an air-dash character you should use it immediately. In fact, Mag and storm can avoid being AHVBed more than once if you pushblock the bullet and mash an air-dash upward. Some people can actually lightning attack out, but its difficult. ____________________________________________ "Geog, Mr Jinmaster, Do u have any strategy on performing mag. aircombo>hyper gravitation>magnetic tempest and i want to which button i exactly need to press for his whole set of air combo, thx." reply: Launch, hold forward on the stick, jab, short, strong( I think I start to roll the stick from front to back at this point), forward, roundhouse-grav(I hit the roundhouse button when my motion completes), slight time delay, kick super. It's all about timing and getting your grav to come out instead of a normal move. I struggles with this for a long time. If you still have trouble, you can do the easier version where you use a short-grav just mashing short after you see the forward connect. Just roll the grav motion during the air combo. Hold forward during the AC so the short-grav hits, and don't listen to anyone on this site who tells you that shor-grav to tempest doesn't work becuase it does. -Micah Posted by TimeFlip on 03:23:2001 09:20 PM: So anyway, I have some questions: Why don't people use Blackheart's mid-air Judgement Day super? It does good chipping damage, and from high enough, Cable can't AHVBx? it. And I've changed the order to Blackheart(AAA)/Anakaris(Throw)/Cyclops(AAA) so I had this question. My other question is what do you think of this team: Spiral(projectile)/Anakaris(Throw)/Sentinel(Drone thingies) So anyway I was thinking if Sentinel can d.HP+Anakaris Assist, the opponent will get hit sometimes. me-"I'm trying to get at least one person to play Anakaris in the tournament" Posted by Bruton on 03:23:2001 09:22 PM: Jinmaster: I'm still holding reservations about Sentinel like that, but I can see what you mean. It just seems like a really large opening. One thing which I'm a little unclear on is the flying. From playing heaps of IM/WM, it seems that if you fly and then you unfly, you still can't block after you unfly??? Is that true of Sentinel as well? I think he just drops fast and can't block until he touches the ground? If that's true, then it seems that he's vulnerable from after the SJ.RK and he can't get out of the way? I know it's fast with the crossup and all, but is it enough time to react? Assists seem like a problem, though, in that the right assist might not let a tagging character get an easy combo. I'm interested in the guard break/undizzy thing mainly for IM/WM. WM is nice in that I can get away with a WD, EX something for chipping, but I mainly use IM. The followup for the infinite is their AC with a possible setup for more chip with Smart Bombs, land and Proton Cannon as(if) they block. But it still requires stopping the infinite short to "get the most damage out" by doing the AC. It'd be nice if guard-breaking an undizzy works, as it should reset the damage and possibly give a sure kill with full meter for the other characters. Undizzies seems to be that you can't hit them for a period, and then they recover as they're spiralling down. I keep wondering whether it's abusable. =) -Bruton Posted by cheese_master on 03:24:2001 12:19 AM: Hey Jinmaster, I was wondering what this thing I have read of in the forums about Marrow being able to link 3 supers to kill an assist character in one go. And how to set it up and do it. Cheese_master Posted by WHOCares? on 03:24:2001 07:08 AM: Well since your here to help, I'd love to get some advice & an evaluation of my stratgety with my new team from a top player such as yourself! Sakura(a)/Cable(a)/Blackheart(b) I orignally came up with this team to find a way to get Sakura involved with some top tier characters. Anyway here's some strageties I cooked up. Sakura will start the match as a battery for Cable. For the most part, she's a decent battery especially when landing sone Sho-ou-ken combos. The assists for Cable & BH were chosen so Sakura can stay in the opponent's face & build meter. Then after building about 3 levels or Sakura begins to take some heavy damage, use a Team Counter to get Cable in. With Sakura's assist she can give Cable a shield against virtually every projectile & gives him a chance to use his AHVB against sword happy Sprials, Megamans, & projectile assists. (will it work on Sentinel's drones?) And it also does a decent job of stopping rushdown & can be easily used as a bluff & setup the AHVB. As for BH, he mainly there for the assist, & I really don't expect him to be in the fight unless Sakura and/or Cable dies or is Snapbacked in. So, how well do you think this team & stratgety will do on high levels of play, not neccessarily tournaments, but rather firece competition. Oh BTW, I've just recently picked up on BH. Got any good strats for a BH newbie like myself. I'm sure his game revovles around his HK demons, & his Inferno XX HoD combo! Thanks in avdance! Posted by *Magneto* on 03:24:2001 07:28 AM: Do u know any good combos for Spiral?I want to link her special into an air combo. http://www.tagmonkey.homestead.com/files/M920tag4.gif *Magneto* is an action and a person...? Posted by on 03:24:2001 07:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Magneto*: Do u know any good combos for Spiral?I want to link her special into an air combo. <IMG SRC="http://www.tagmonkey.homestead.com/files/M920tag4.gif"> *Magneto* is an action and a person...? Call swords, launch, LK, LK, QCF + LK XX Metamorphosis and Grab I broke my fist, but I still look cool. http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/supergeek.gif Posted by Da Azn Angel on 03:24:2001 08:04 AM: Wussup yo, sorry if someone asked this already but i didnt want to wade through 15 pages of strategies, haha. anyways, i use magneto-b, cable-a, psylocke-a in that order. the other day i played a dude who used the cable/storm-projectile trap fp, call storm, fp,fp, fp, fp, grendade or whateva . . . jsut wondering, if in case i do get trapped by that again, how can i get out? do i just need to get really great at superjumping out or what? thanks yo [This message has been edited by Da Azn Angel (edited 03-23-2001).] Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:24:2001 08:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: I've been thinking about this for a while, and what it comes down to for me is a little different. A good team should be able to apply offensive pressure to any given part of the arena within 1 second or less. To me, this is one of the major reasons the top characters are on the top tier: they can threaten you from full-screen on their own. Understanding how to apply your assists vs other assists as well as knowing what the point characters can and will do at any given moment is just as important as understanding space control. Space control means nothing if you can't apply it in an ever-changing matchup against a non-patterned opponent. -Micah Hello Jinmaster, If you don't mind, may I ask a few questions about this? First, this way of thinking has helped my rushdown game quite a bit, and I see it's uses there, but I'm having difficulty adapting it to my trapping/keep away game. Here's my problem: I have, in my time playing this game, used my point character AND my assist character to try to cover the space that I predict that my opponent will next be in. My understanding of your above post leads me to think that my point character should be used to control space this way, BUT that my assist character should NOT be. Instead, my assist character should be used to control space only as a reaction, to fill in the holes my point character left (in the event that the opponent moves into one of those holes). For example, I've often called in a Capcom anti-air assist because I thought that the next place my opponent would move to would be to dash forward (they hadn't begun dashing yet). But, would you say that I should wait until the opponent actually begins to rush to call the assist? I can see the possibility of the opponent not doing what I expected (dashing), and as a result, getting a free shot at my character(s), but I've always been careful to cover my assists' recovery. Next Queston: If I have to cover my assist character's recovery, am I giving away control in the match? Always, Never, Sometimes? Thanx in advance, -DFA Posted by Eternal Fighter on 03:24:2001 09:46 AM: Do you have any good strategies against the following teams?: -BH throwing demons with Cyc aaa and Sentinel backing them up -Spiral wall of swords with Sentinel Ground assist and Doom AAA -Strider/Doom Traps Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:24:2001 10:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bruton: I'm interested in the guard break/undizzy thing mainly for IM/WM. WM is nice in that I can get away with a WD, EX something for chipping, but I mainly use IM. The followup for the infinite is their AC with a possible setup for more chip with Smart Bombs, land and Proton Cannon as(if) they block. But it still requires stopping the infinite short to "get the most damage out" by doing the AC. It'd be nice if guard-breaking an undizzy works, as it should reset the damage and possibly give a sure kill with full meter for the other characters. Undizzies seems to be that you can't hit them for a period, and then they recover as they're spiralling down. I keep wondering whether it's abusable. =) -Bruton I think I can help you about the undizzy thing. When you do a lot of infinite rotations against an opponent(most infinites are around 50/55 hits, speed up semi infinites are between 20 and 30 hits) he will undizzy. Which happens is that he flies out of the screen and comes back in an animation kind of like after being hitted from a move that causes flying screen. Your opponent isn't blocking so it's impossible to GB. I'm pretty sure that's impossible to touch the enemy on this situation too. I have tried to hit different heights of different opponents with different characters of my own and it always seems that the opponent isn't there. The best thing to do is memorize about how many hits you usually undizzy your opponnent and cancel it a little before with a combo into special (IM's case), Depending if you had done a lot of hits or not on the past few seconds of a fight, the undizzie can appear early. For example, Storm's undizzie on Sentinel happens after 51 or 52 hits, I'm not totally sure, but I had situations in real gaming that it happened at 43 or so. If I'm not sure, I do 35 and go for LK, MK, typhoon, hail storm(most damage because hail does lot of hits) or LK, MK, HK launcher, air combo into lightning storm(is that the name), any DHC. You can try some things like that with IM. I don't know very much about him, but I remember that you can link his infinite into repulsor blast and than Proton Cannon, DHC. Since you build lots of meters with the infinite(your opponent too, remember that), you can go for a DHC with a big chance of killing your opponnent, and maybe opening a GB opportuniy when the next character comes in. I hope it helps! If I didn't make something clear, please ask again. See you all later! Posted by bbb on 03:24:2001 10:53 AM: 36 – When someone calls cyc assist, I do typhoon, hail. But usually even if I combo the main character with it, the assist leaves between the typhoon and the hail(since he’s close to me the typhoon leves him before hail comes out).If the main character blocks, I got nothing. If I cancel it early, the typhoon doesn’t come out, so the main character can break my startup of the special. What should I do? Posted by Gamerzr0 on 03:24:2001 12:40 PM: Okay, just wanted to say thanks to JM...but I just wanted everyone to be clear about BH's super names......When he does the super where he crosses his arms that IS his JUDGEMENT DAY SUPER and where the little monters are coming out of his chest this IS Heart of Darkness. "You must remember never underestimate your opponent" Posted by Bruton on 03:24:2001 01:45 PM: kdcmarvel: I've been trying to get the maximum out of IM's infinite, and Repulsor Blast only JUST occurred to me... have to try it. I've been trying to slow the infinite so that I can Proton Cannon after a late J.U.FP. =) I might also try WM's Repulsor Blast assist... I use that to combo into it. I thought ppl recovered from undizzies in the air, but I always cut the infinite shorter for the AC. Thanks for the help, it's appreciated. One strategy for Storm is to call your anti-air before you Hailstorm, as if they get hit, they go flying but the Hailstorm still gets them. They shouldn't be able to come back down in time if you quickly do a Typhoon/Hailstorm, but I'm not sure. Maybe you need launcher, assist, Typhoon, Hailstorm. I don't know if it's fast enough. -Bruton Posted by GoldenVulf on 03:24:2001 03:34 PM: Hey! I need some information? Yes of course I do. Tell me some strategies on how to kill assists, I know some with my usual characters, but I want to know the ones you or anyone else knows. Also, how do I set up Ken's ducking short kick? The first question is more important. I just want to hear everyone else's strategies on dealing with assists when they pop out. t3h [337 GoldenVulf ownz j00!! Posted by GoldenVulf on 03:24:2001 03:44 PM: Guess I'll start it off, When someone calls Collosus's dash assist I block then hit him into an air combo. The trick is to not end it in a move that leaves you unable to do anything till you hit the ground for obvious reasons. I find silver samurai's lightning super is good for hurting an assist while keeping the player away. Decent recovery on that one, and it can get them if they try to follow up an assist with a jump in. Against blackheart's beta, a dash forward will take you out of the danger zone. Shoryureppa and Headcrush are good counter supers, but if the main player blocks then they can get you on the recovery. Doctre Domo's proton shot and array moves are good for punishing assists. Posted by CiddypooKun on 03:24:2001 08:57 PM: TimeFlip: quote: So anyway, I have some questions: Why don't people use Blackheart's mid-air Judgement Day super? It does good chipping damage, and from high enough, Cable can't AHVBx? it. My little brother uses this special a lot, and I'll tell you that it is VERY annoying. He'll toss out a sj.HK, AirDash (crossup), sj.HP and cancel to it in midair...Usually you're so close that you take the full chip... But even from long distance, it's annoying because for some reason it's really damn hard to super jump when it's coming out o_O. I have no idea why this is, but everytime I try to super jump to AHVB or do whatever while he's doing it, it just won't come out. If you can somehow abuse this, then maybe there IS a way to get some safe chip against Cable ::shudders at the thought of HoD:: - CiddypooKun Would you like wine with that cheese? Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:25:2001 11:38 AM: Originally posted by Bruton: kdcmarvel: I've been trying to get the maximum out of IM's infinite, and Repulsor Blast only JUST occurred to me... have to try it. I've been trying to slow the infinite so that I can Proton Cannon after a late J.U.FP. =) I might also try WM's Repulsor Blast assist... I use that to combo into it. I thought ppl recovered from undizzies in the air, but I always cut the infinite shorter for the AC. Thanks for the help, it's appreciated. Thank you for being so nice. You seem to be really familiar with the combo. I think you should practice all the versions you know about cancelling the infinite into supers and see which one do more damage and practice it. Of course it's good to have all the options because sometimes one may not work because of positioning/opponent's size/whatever. Good luck with your team One strategy for Storm is to call your anti-air before you Hailstorm, as if they get hit, they go flying but the Hailstorm still gets them. They shouldn't be able to come back down in time if you quickly do a Typhoon/Hailstorm, but I'm not sure. Maybe you need launcher, assist, Typhoon, Hailstorm. I don't know if it's fast enough. -Bruton Are you talking about the end of the infinite? If it is, I still think that the normal combo does better damage(LK, MK, Typhoon, Hail). About the normal helper calls, I just call AAA and go straight into Hail. If I want a little chip, I made them block the AAA(which makes impossible to counter hail's start up) and do it. If I hit, the entire Hail will connect. I like to use Cyclops with her. When I said typhoon, hail I meant horizontal typhoon, just to clarify. Any comments, I'll be happy if you share it with me. See ya! Jinmaster Jin, a little question about the thread. I saw that you don't use the " " signs on your quotes and answers. Is it to make the page runs fast or just a personal choice of you? If you want, I can stop abusing it. I think I use it a little too much, because it seems to make me looks nicer(is this a word?). Congrats for your great job here and sorry for the non gaming question. See ya! Posted by Bruton on 03:25:2001 01:32 PM: Well it's easier to get on with people and to get help with a polite attitude. =) I'm fairly familiar with the combo... I set it up off of J.LK, J.U.RK, or after a jump in with WM(J.LK, J.MK, call WM, C.LK(call WM here if it's a dash-in), C.MP, jump up and infinite... I like using WM here because his Repulsor Blast is fast and does SOOO much damage already before the infinite begins. I also use Psylocke anti air and the solo AC in the corner(SJ.LP, LK, MK, T.FP, SJ.D.RK(OTG), etc.) I can't do it with Doom's assist(haven't really tried but they go a bit high) but can with other weird ones like Iceman's Icebeam if I have the perfect setup. I lent my friend my Dreamcast so I can't really practise, but calling assists seems like such a great idea... Psy AA or WM RB should work perfectly for a Proton Cannon. Thanks again. =) The other guy said he'd do a Typhoon(yeah, I don't think anybody thinks vertical =) into Hailstorm to attack the main character, but the helpers often get away. I normally AAA/Hailstorm the helpers as well, but it seems he wants the Typhoon too. I'm not sure whether it's possible to get both, but IF doing AAA, then Typhoon then Hailstorm is too slow for the helpers(if they get hit by AAA but can get out of the way of the Hailstorm due to the startup on the Typhoon... I don't know if they can), then maybe if you give the helpers a bit more altitude by launching them, with simultanteous AAA, then cancelling the launcher quickly to a Typhoon and then Hailstorm, it seems like that would give heaps of time for the helpers at least. I wasn't talking about her infinite at all... I don't know how to do it. =/ -Bruton Posted by PsionicTempest on 03:25:2001 11:39 PM: I can do almost everything there is w/ Mag right now, im just having trouble doing the following. I cant see what wrong w/ the way im trying it. c.fierce /\ sj.Roundhouse XX Air Dash -> ad.short -> ad.forward \/ c.fierce /\ ... Can anyone thoroughly explain this, how they do it and the timing that is used. http://psionictempest.tripod.com/shor_2.jpg Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:25:2001 11:49 PM: Originally posted by Bruton: Well it's easier to get on with people and to get help with a polite attitude. =) I'm fairly familiar with the combo... I set it up off of J.LK, J.U.RK, or after a jump in with WM(J.LK, J.MK, call WM, C.LK(call WM here if it's a dash-in), C.MP, jump up and infinite... I like using WM here because his Repulsor Blast is fast and does SOOO much damage already before the infinite begins. I also use Psylocke anti air and the solo AC in the corner(SJ.LP, LK, MK, T.FP, SJ.D.RK(OTG), etc.) I can't do it with Doom's assist(haven't really tried but they go a bit high) but can with other weird ones like Iceman's Icebeam if I have the perfect setup. I lent my friend my Dreamcast so I can't really practise, but calling assists seems like such a great idea... Psy AA or WM RB should work perfectly for a Proton Cannon. Thanks again. =) You're always welcome. I think Psylocke is excellent to set up this infinite, and she is one of the assists that connects most often. Call assists to setup the Proton Cannon is good too, but you have to remember that you can't call assists twice in a combo, so if you start the combo with one, you'll need to have another option to cancel it into the special. The other guy said he'd do a Typhoon(yeah, I don't think anybody thinks vertical =) into Hailstorm to attack the main character, but the helpers often get away. I normally AAA/Hailstorm the helpers as well, but it seems he wants the Typhoon too. I'm not sure whether it's possible to get both, but IF doing AAA, then Typhoon then Hailstorm is too slow for the helpers(if they get hit by AAA but can get out of the way of the Hailstorm due to the startup on the Typhoon... I don't know if they can), then maybe if you give the helpers a bit more altitude by launching them, with simultanteous AAA, then cancelling the launcher quickly to a Typhoon and then Hailstorm, it seems like that would give heaps of time for the helpers at least. I wasn't talking about her infinite at all... I don't know how to do it. =/ -Bruton Now I see. Well, I think he was just trying to do typhoon, hail without the AAA, but against another person AAAs. If not, the typhoon would pass below the launched opponent. I think his best option is just call AAA and go to typhoon right away, specially if the AAA will make the opponent blocks too. Typhhon, hail connects well if the opponent and his assist are close to each other, but if the assist is close to you and the opponent is far way the typhoon will leave the assist too soon, and that's why he isn't connecting with it. If he must does a typhoon, your idea of launcher + AAA can be the solution, I think, but it will be way more dangerous since he will be open at the launcher time and at the typhoon time, and the typhoon wouldn't even catch the assist. I think he must be fast with the combo and allow as less room as possible to the opponent's point counter him. Thanks for the idea. See ya! Posted by The President of FIFA on 03:26:2001 02:34 AM: i use strider wolve and hatako (whatever his name is), and this team brought me nothing but trouble because they have poor damage. These are the only ppl i am good at, but i think for my own good i should drop either wol, or hata. the question is who sdhould i replace either of them? Posted by Bruton on 03:26:2001 05:58 AM: kdcmarvel: What? You can't call assists twice in a combo? Wow, I didn't know that... I thought assists normally just took so long to get off the screen that most combos wouldn't allow it. One of J.Chen's Magneto comboes has Ruby Heart Capture assist and then a SonSon healing assist later on while they are held by the HyperGrav... can you do it with different assists or do capture moves(HyperGrav) reset it? Different assists would be tough... WM or Psylocke would be good for setting it up and then the super later on it seems, but I normally have Cable or Storm or somebody who would probably suck here. =) -Bruton Posted by PurePinoy6i9 on 03:26:2001 07:40 AM: I need help doing magneto's extended combo. Posted by orochi ryu on 03:26:2001 11:32 AM: Hi everyone! I am relatively new to this whole internet thing, I have only been a part of it for about a year, and well, the reason that brings me here before you all, is that i am a True fighting game player. I am a combo freak! And i need you'alls help. I live in fort worth, TX And I was one of many around evrywhere that thought i was really good, I mean honestly there were only about 2 peeps that gave me a trouble, But that all changed Ultimetly for the better, when i met people like Sky, and tony. I mean they whopped tha hell out of me. which made me realize that i was no where near where i needed to be, to be called good. Now i hope you all dont think of me as some kind of Nut, and for those who tell other people to get a life, Undestand that if that's the way the like to live their live, and they are happy with it, you are no one to judge. Ever since We met this new rivals, My friends have lost that interest in playing M vs c 2, because they say that Playing "cheap" is no fun at all, that playing against someone who uses cable,doom,and BH is pointless, cause there are no real combos. But not me, I still have that Flame, and I still absolutely Love playing it.I mean I have become a hell of a lot better since i met these guys. I can pull of iron mans infinite, which is easy as hell, i can do his whole air-dash to fly air-combo. And my question to anyone who could help me is: I play with Mageneto(by the way, i can do his three air super combo in real battle) Anyhoo, My team is Magneto, Ironman, and psylocke. But i have been hearing, and actually seeing how storm is such a great character. that i would like to put her into my team, but i have touble deciding who to take out of my exsisting team. I can play really well, with all three, and i love using different strategies on different opponents. So any comments would be gratly appreciated. Also What is this hear about triangle jumping? I heard something about Magneto making an ifinite out of it. >?< does anyone know anything on this? can you tell me how to do it, I do not currently have a dreamcast, but i am totally getting one next week, and i am also buying one of those MAS joysticks. So I Have sworn, God as my witness, to learn all new tactics I can & to become a true player reather than being the scrub that i have become in meeting, and knowing Sky. Again, any, and all help would be greatly appreciated, any thougths on using new tactics with my new team which will include storm, and anything on how to do this triangle jump will be used. By the way, i am planning on going to the B5, and making lots of new fellow gamers. And i do plan to attend to al least one other big tourney to help me get ready to play at my best. OROCHI RYU Posted by kdcmarvel on 03:26:2001 01:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bruton: kdcmarvel: What? You can't call assists twice in a combo? Wow, I didn't know that... I thought assists normally just took so long to get off the screen that most combos wouldn't allow it. One of J.Chen's Magneto comboes has Ruby Heart Capture assist and then a SonSon healing assist later on while they are held by the HyperGrav... can you do it with different assists or do capture moves(HyperGrav) reset it? Different assists would be tough... WM or Psylocke would be good for setting it up and then the super later on it seems, but I normally have Cable or Storm or somebody who would probably suck here. =) -Bruton short answer(I need to go sleep, 6:57 am here). Jchen called 2 assist because healing assists aren't part of the combo. Example: if you AHVB Sentinel high calling spiral assist, you can do 5 bars and call spiral 5 times because she will not touch him. But if you AHVB he first on the ground calling the assist, once the swords hits, you can't call spiral anymore until the need of your combo. So, to have things straight, you can't make an assist come again after hit the opponent in a combo. See you later! BTW: Hyper Grav doesn't reset it. You can't call it again until the combo meter ends. Now, see you later!! Posted by Overdrive on 03:26:2001 11:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by PsionicTempest: I can do almost everything there is w/ Mag right now, im just having trouble doing the following. I cant see what wrong w/ the way im trying it. c.fierce /\ sj.Roundhouse XX Air Dash -> ad.short -> ad.forward \/ c.fierce /\ ... Can anyone thoroughly explain this, how they do it and the timing that is used. I'm not the greatest Magneto player in the world, but I can do this combo fairly consistently. What I do is space out the short and forward as long as possible, but not so long that it doesn't combo. If you're having trouble with the low fierce relaunch, try standing RH also. Posted by Iceman on 03:27:2001 12:57 AM: I agree with Overdrive. It is much easier to re-launch with Standing Roundhouse then to re-launch with ducking fierce, it's just they are launched at an unusual angle with standing roundhouse. "...I'll string you up from a big ass tree, with a sign around your neck that says 'Whack MC'"--MC Hawking Posted by Jinmaster on 03:27:2001 02:03 AM: Everyone, I've been real busy this weekend. I had two tournaments and a lot of other things going on that have mad it so I cannot respond quite yet. I may answer a few of the posts in the next hour or so, but I don't think I can adress all of them. If I answer some questions, and I don't get to yours, don't trip. -Micah Posted by MyClone on 03:27:2001 02:34 AM: How do you do Rogue's "teleport", the combo where she goes to the other side of the opponent? Posted by SmuvMoney on 03:27:2001 03:02 AM: I wanted to ask about strategy on another team. I had asked about Jugg/Sent/Colossus, but I switched to Hulk as I seem to do better with him. Even though you suggested Colossus over Hulk, JM, I could never get the hang of the Russian so I ended up with B-Juggernaut/Y-Sentinel/Y-Hulk (Team Super Armor ). Here are my questions: * Should I use Y-Hulk over B-Hulk since I already have B-Juggernaut? B-Hulk's assist would seem redundant and sometimes I do need an AAA to cover Jugg's or Sent's head (in this case, Y-Hulk). If I asked about this already, please forgive - I think I asked this about Colossus but not Hulk. I have a short memory and this thread is LOOOOOOONG. * Could you provide some strategy on Hulk in this team as he is almost as tough to use as Colossus in some cases. I know most of the combos cancelling to supers, but I can't seem to much on the ground one on one (which may be the problem and why you suggested Colossus over Hulk in the first place...) I also decided to try a completely new team: a-Venom, B-Silver Samurai, a-Anarakis. I either have Venom or SS on point - Venom usually starts, but then I'll switch in SS on Variable Counter or even DHC. Here are some more questions: * Anarakis' assist sets up both supers for Venom very nicely. Otherwise I'm not sure how to use "The Mummy" should he be on point or the only one left. * Are SS' elementals powerups (fire, lightning, ice) any good or worth the meter? I usually end up using the meter for Lightning strike combos (c.LK -> c.HP or c.MK XX Lightning) rather than the "elementals". * What would be the best DHC order for the Venom/SS/The Mummy team? Once again, thanks for your patience and your time. Peace & God Bless, $muvMoney John 14:27 & Numbers 6:24 Posted by Jinmaster on 03:27:2001 03:31 AM: Timeflip, "So anyway, I have some questions: Why don't people use Blackheart's mid-air Judgement Day super? It does good chipping damage, and from high enough, Cable can't AHVBx? it." reply: People do use it, but people tend to use it more when it's a sure thing. It's really hard to aim it from far up, and the chipping damage is just ok. Its usually better to do the inferno XX HOD becuase you have a greater chance of catching someone with that. "And I've changed the order to Blackheart(AAA)/Anakaris(Throw)/Cyclops(AAA) so I had this question: My other question is what do you think of this team: Spiral(projectile)/Anakaris(Throw)/Sentinel(Drone thingies) So anyway I was thinking if Sentinel can d.HP+Anakaris Assist, the opponent will get hit sometimes." reply: The thing about Anakaris assist is that if an opponent who is paying attention can easily duck the assist just about every time you use it. I would only use it a few times per match so that it is unexpected and you can get the most damage possible from it via supers and DHCs. I could see both teams being useful, although BH/Anakar/Clops doesn't use meter particularly well. ____________________________________________ Bruton, "Jinmaster: I'm still holding reservations about Sentinel like that, but I can see what you mean. It just seems like a really large opening. One thing which I'm a little unclear on is the flying. From playing heaps of IM/WM, it seems that if you fly and then you unfly, you still can't block after you unfly??? Is that true of Sentinel as well? I think he just drops fast and can't block until he touches the ground? If that's true, then it seems that he's vulnerable from after the SJ.RK and he can't get out of the way? I know it's fast with the crossup and all, but is it enough time to react? Assists seem like a problem, though, in that the right assist might not let a tagging character get an easy combo." reply: I don't remember ever unflying and not being able to block immediately afterwards as Sentinel, so I guess the properties may be different. "I'm interested in the guard break/undizzy thing mainly for IM/WM. WM is nice in that I can get away with a WD, EX something for chipping, but I mainly use IM. The followup for the infinite is their AC with a possible setup for more chip with Smart Bombs, land and Proton Cannon as(if) they block. But it still requires stopping the infinite short to "get the most damage out" by doing the AC. It'd be nice if guard-breaking an undizzy works, as it should reset the damage and possibly give a sure kill with full meter for the other characters. Undizzies seems to be that you can't hit them for a period, and then they recover as they're spiralling down. I keep wondering whether it's abusable. =)" reply: Nah, Fluff says that you can't touch an undizzy character until they land and stand up. I think the GB for Iron man is just up and fierce but then again there may be better ways that the real good Iron-man players know about. Just so you know, you can set up the infnite off a launch. I forgot the exact combo, but I know it involves a straight fierce in the air into a downward air dash into a move that sets them up for a normal jump. Not sure what the combo was, but if I can ask some people and I'll get back to you on it. ____________________________________________ Cheese_master, "I was wondering what this thing I have read of in the forums about Marrow being able to link 3 supers to kill an assist character in one go. And how to set it up and do it." reply: I'm not aware of any super she has that would let her recover on time to OTG, let alone juggle. ____________________________________________ WHOcares?, "Well since your here to help, I'd love to get some advice & an evaluation of my stratgety with my new team from a top player such as yourself! Sakura(a)/Cable(a)/Blackheart(b) I orignally came up with this team to find a way to get Sakura involved with some top tier characters. Anyway here's some strageties I cooked up. Sakura will start the match as a battery for Cable. For the most part, she's a decent battery especially when landing sone Sho-ou-ken combos. The assists for Cable & BH were chosen so Sakura can stay in the opponent's face & build meter. Then after building about 3 levels or Sakura begins to take some heavy damage, use a Team Counter to get Cable in. With Sakura's assist she can give Cable a shield against virtually every projectile & gives him a chance to use his AHVB against sword happy Sprials, Megamans, & projectile assists. (will it work on Sentinel's drones?) And it also does a decent job of stopping rushdown & can be easily used as a bluff & setup the AHVB. As for BH, he mainly there for the assist, & I really don't expect him to be in the fight unless Sakura and/or Cable dies or is Snapbacked in. So, how well do you think this team & stratgety will do on high levels of play, not neccessarily tournaments, but rather firece competition. Oh BTW, I've just recently picked up on BH. Got any good strats for a BH newbie like myself. I'm sure his game revovles around his HK demons, & his Inferno XX HoD combo! Thanks in avdance!" reply: The problem is that while BH is good at helping you pressure the skyward and keep-away characters, neither him not Cable-AAA really facilitate good rushdown. Honestly, Storm or Magneto can both fill in the battery role, as well as Spiral. But I know you want to use Sakura so I think your strategy is ok but I don't think Sakura can do anything to stop Sentinel/BH and just about everyone has a Sentinel/BH team ready to go. I highly suggest putting a stronger in-close AAA to help your team out instead of BH. Sakura needs something with some priority in close, and it can be basic like clops or psylocke, or you can use something like commando if they lack doom-AAA or an invincible-AAA. Either way, you need to have something faster to stop being rushed down by the likes of Mag teams and strider teams once your cable is in. I'm thinking commando is your best bet, unless you have a lot of faith in sakura to keep people off of you. I think your team is ok, but in fierce competition I would be a tad skeptical. =( ____________________________________________ *Magneto*, "Do u know any good combos for Spiral?I want to link her special into an air combo." reply: If you have swords, launch into a 1,2,3,4, circle knife, hold forward and do a DP throw, throw them forward and call knives. If you have no knives, just do the DP special after the 4th attack. The 4th hit of your sj ac should be delayed a tad, then DP throw. In the corner, you can launch into (hold toward)1,2,3,4, hold backwards and hit rounhouse air-throw, launch when they bounce, and you can either try it once more time or just do the standard combo. ____________________________________________ Da Azn Angel, "Wussup yo, sorry if someone asked this already but i didnt want to wade through 15 pages of strategies, haha. anyways, i use magneto-b, cable-a, psylocke-a in that order. the other day i played a dude who used the cable/storm-projectile trap fp, call storm, fp,fp, fp, fp, grendade or whateva . . . jsut wondering, if in case i do get trapped by that again, how can i get out? do i just need to get really great at superjumping out or what? thanks yo" reply: Which storm assist? The projectile one can be superjumped rather easily, the gamma trap is a tad harder and you may have to block 2 1/2 rotations before a true opportunity. All characters can just eat the gamma assist and use whatever air moves they have to get close. The gamma assist, which is the upward tornado works like this: it's a pillar that has boxes to it. Picture about 4-6 boxes, each box being Cable's height. When you stand there and block the assist, the bottom box hits you and then goes completely away even though the tornado is on the screen for much longer. This is becuase the boxes above you are active until either get you hit by them, you block them, or it ends. I don't know if assists being caught matters, becuase the typhoon juggles both equally in my experience. Use this knowledge to your advantage and just dash forward and superjump after blocking the gamma assist. ____________________________________________ DeathFromAbove, "Hello Jinmaster, If you don't mind, may I ask a few questions about this? First, this way of thinking has helped my rushdown game quite a bit, and I see it's uses there, but I'm having difficulty adapting it to my trapping/keep away game. Here's my problem: I have, in my time playing this game, used my point character AND my assist character to try to cover the space that I predict that my opponent will next be in. My understanding of your above post leads me to think that my point character should be used to control space this way, BUT that my assist character should NOT be. Instead, my assist character should be used to control space only as a reaction, to fill in the holes my point character left (in the event that the opponent moves into one of those holes). For example, I've often called in a Capcom anti-air assist because I thought that the next place my opponent would move to would be to dash forward (they hadn't begun dashing yet). But, would you say that I should wait until the opponent actually begins to rush to call the assist? I can see the possibility of the opponent not doing what I expected (dashing), and as a result, getting a free shot at my character(s), but I've always been careful to cover my assists' recovery." reply: For the most part, you are right. You generally want to call your assists in reaction to your opponent. The exception is #1 trap tactics and #2 staying unpredictable. Some players dash at you and dash backwards to make you call an assist ot to just see how you react or to just mess with your head. "Next Queston: If I have to cover my assist character's recovery, am I giving away control in the match? Always, Never, Sometimes? Thanx in advance," reply: That is totally situational. It depends on how you choose to protect it and what chracter/team you have. Cable usually can just call them all day, but against another Cable he has to cross over with a super jump or superjump up and throw a gernade or make the other cable block an AHVB. Different situations call for different methods, and I'm guilty of not paying attention to the what the best method should be quite a bit. There is so much to think about in MvC2 that it hurts my head sometimes, especially in tournaments against unfamiliar teams. Being wide awake at a tournament does help quite a bit. =) ____________________________________________ EternalFighter, "Do you have any good strategies against the following teams?: -BH throwing demons with Cyc aaa and Sentinel backing them up" reply: I think I've covered that already in this thread. SJ up with a roundhouse and air dash forward and land behind them with short-short, land, call cyke and short-short, if cyke hit SJ up and forward with roundhouse and do the infinite or whatever. "-Spiral wall of swords with Sentinel Ground assist and Doom AAA" reply: I've already outlined this trap. Have knives, make them block a deep S.fierce, unload knives and call sentinel, reload, dash forward and repeat. The doom one I haven't mentioned is to corner the opponent and jump up and circle knife, get close to the opponent and block, if they call AAA it gets hit, if not the character will have to block the ring, and call doom next to them. Jump up and call knives, jump up again and circle-knife, call doom when they start to block knives. This really hurts people with no invincible-AAA. "-Strider/Doom Traps" reply: Again, I've outlined this. ____________________________________________ bbb, "When someone calls cyc assist, I do typhoon, hail. But usually even if I combo the main character with it, the assist leaves between the typhoon and the hail(since he’s close to me the typhoon leves him before hail comes out).If the main character blocks, I got nothing. If I cancel it early, the typhoon doesn’t come out, so the main character can break my startup of the special. What should I do?" reply: #1) If you didn't have to block the assist, just dhas back typhoon as it comes down and xx hail. #2) If you have an assist that will stick out there like Doom-AAA or your own cyclops or a commando assist, call that and typhoon immediately after you hit the assist button and XX hail. #3) When cyke is finishing his move in the air, call a fast projectile assist or a long-lasting one(BH-AAA and Cable-projectile come to mind), and then either wait for clops to come down, dash back and typhoon XX hail, or simply hailstorm striaght away. #4) Just hailstorm. You can also call an assist that will pressure the main character, lauch clops, and cancel the launch into a hail. Remember you don't always have to typhoon first. Hope that helps. ____________________________________________ GamerZero, "Okay, just wanted to say thanks to JM...but I just wanted everyone to be clear about BH's super names......When he does the super where he crosses his arms that IS his JUDGEMENT DAY SUPER and where the little monters are coming out of his chest this IS Heart of Darkness." reply: I think that its different in the American Version, as the names of a lot of things get switched around from Japanese games to American ones. ____________________________________________ Goldenwulf, "Hey! I need some information? Yes of course I do. Tell me some strategies on how to kill assists, I know some with my usual characters, but I want to know the ones you or anyone else knows. Also, how do I set up Ken's ducking short kick? The first question is more important. I just want to hear everyone else's strategies on dealing with assists when they pop out." reply: Is this a joke question? How do you set up a short kick with Ken? Probably the same as everyoneeveryone else? I'll humor you through. Like, use an assist to set it up or dash in or corssup with a roll. The best way to kill assists is to do it #1 safely, and #2 with as little meter as possible. With Ken speicifically, I launch assists into a SJ, jab, roundhouse hurricane. "When someone calls Collosus's dash assist I block then hit him into an air combo. The trick is to not end it in a move that leaves you unable to do anything till you hit the ground for obvious reasons. I find silver samurai's lightning super is good for hurting an assist while keeping the player away. Decent recovery on that one, and it can get them if they try to follow up an assist with a jump in. Against blackheart's beta, a dash forward will take you out of the danger zone. Shoryureppa and Headcrush are good counter supers, but if the main player blocks then they can get you on the recovery. Doctre Domo's proton shot and array moves are good for punishing assists." Oh, I see what you are doing. If you want a public opinion on a tactic, please post it in the forum and not in my thread. Most of what you said is...well, slightly on the obvious side. =) ____________________________________________ CiddypooKun, I wouldn't rely on that super against Cable unless you have perfect positioning. ____________________________________________ kdcmarvel, "Jin, a little question about the thread. I saw that you don't use the " " signs on your quotes and answers. Is it to make the page runs fast or just a personal choice of you? If you want, I can stop abusing it. I think I use it a little too much, because it seems to make me looks nicer(is this a word?). Congrats for your great job here and sorry for the non gaming question." reply: I just never learned how and I type =)'s really fast. The only thing I ask of people is to NOT use picture sigs in my thread becuase I'd like the page to load quickly for the 56k peeps and I'd also like it to be easily printable although I'm not sure if sigs would show up when you hit print or not.... I don't mind answering non-gaming questions, but there's not much else people on SRK would ask me. =) ____________________________________________ PsionicTempest, To get the fierce to hit you ahve to cancel the AD real fast and you have to have the correct timing on the two other kicks before you land. There is a slight, noticeable delay between the short and the forward, which sets up the launch with c.fierce. ____________________________________________ That's all I can squeeze in for now, I'll get to the rest later. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-26-2001).] Posted by Bruton on 03:27:2001 03:50 AM: kdcmarvel: Gotcha. It makes so much sense now... I used to use Spiral Gamma to set up Iron Man's AC to reduce the damage against the computer and make it flashier than a regular startup, then try to combo in CapCom's assist at the end of flying, but I could NEVER do it. =) Guess it's just like the one OTG/combo rule. It seems like the best possible thing is to get the Repulsor Blast, PC, but also a guardbreak would be nice as it should reset it... too bad I'm no good at guardbreaks. =/ Thanks for the clarification. =) Orochi ryu: I suggest taking Iron Man out and subbing Storm in. Mags/Storm/AA is a popular team because it's strong. You get MT->Hailstorm which gets around people mashing out, which is the main weakness of your current Magneto team. IM infinite is fun and powerful, but IMO he works better with somebody strong like Cable. IM/Storm/AA is good IMO too. Jinmaster: Hope u did well in the tourneys. =) -Bruton Posted by Black_Jesus on 03:27:2001 04:29 AM: Ok jinmaster i have a question for you. I play mag/storm/psy/cammy but i have trouble rushing down a good cable. When ever i try to dash in and attact or triangle jump and attact i get hit by AAA.(ie cammy or cyke) if i try to dash in, block and be pacient cable usually calls commando or doom. Then cable just jumps back and hits firce. I can't dash in cause AAA is still in the way and if i try to super jump i get hit. When i try too call my AAA to take out his and clear the way, 3AHVB's later my AAA is usually dead. And yes i am super jumping trying to protect my helper when this happens but usually i get caught in the air blocking the beem. so help me out here jinmaster how can i sucsessfuly rush down cable when he has a good AAA??? Thankx Posted by Scrubass Newbie on 03:27:2001 04:39 AM: I have a question, is there a way to link 2 lightning supers with storm because I heard someone from the boards say it was possible but only on the bigger characters. Posted by gamedata on 03:27:2001 09:24 AM: my spiral a/cable b/cyc b or sent c against sent/bh... sent flies highj at the other side of the screen callin bh. if i keep hitting bh, we both build meter and he sometimes come to attack me. he can hit me coming after bh with hk or even rocket punches down forward from there. everytime bh makes me block, he comes, do a hk and goes away(all in flight) my assists can't reach him that far. What can i do?(he uses his tactic against my spiral on point, at the beginning of the game) Posted by Manic on 03:27:2001 09:32 AM: Teleport above him and knock him down. Posted by inf on 03:27:2001 09:37 AM: Using spiral with cable and sentinel assists, when should I call cable b to break the strider/doom trap? Posted by jBeaN on 03:27:2001 10:01 AM: my friend plays a mean blackheart/sentinel trap. everytime i use my mag/storm/cyke team, its really hard for me to break his inferno/drones rush. i usually superjump and airdash d/f, but this happens only after he chips my mags health. any suggestions? oh yeah...i'm not a great mvsc2 player. keep that in mind Posted by Bruton on 03:27:2001 05:27 PM: Jinmaster: Yeah, that AC setup for the IM infinite would help alot if you can get it, thanks. It's probably something like SJ.T.FP XX DF.Airdash SJ.LK(as they'd be low), SJ.MP or MK, SJ.U.FP(THE move for holding someone reeling) or SJ.U.RK, infinite. I was thinking about the BH names on the supers... in MSH the vertical one is HoD, and the chest one is Judgement Day. But the demons come out from his chest which makes HoD sound more appropriate, and he crosses his arms as if he is judging them(I guess Cable gets judged incorrectly if you don't DHC when you're not in the corner) -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 03:27:2001 09:58 PM: The President of FIFA, "i use strider wolve and hatako (whatever his name is), and this team brought me nothing but trouble because they have poor damage. These are the only ppl i am good at, but i think for my own good i should drop either wol, or hata. the question is who sdhould i replace either of them?" reply: The only character I would keep is strider. Unless you want to learn Setinel and BH and just use wolverine. Learn how to use Doctor Doom-AAA so you can play strider to his max potential. =) ____________________________________________ orochi ryu, "Hi everyone! I am relatively new to this whole internet thing, I have only been a part of it for about a year, and well, the reason that brings me here before you all, is that i am a True fighting game player. I am a combo freak! And i need you'alls help. I live in fort worth, TX And I was one of many around evrywhere that thought i was really good, I mean honestly there were only about 2 peeps that gave me a trouble, But that all changed Ultimetly for the better, when i met people like Sky, and tony. I mean they whopped tha hell out of me. which made me realize that i was no where near where i needed to be, to be called good. Now i hope you all dont think of me as some kind of Nut, and for those who tell other people to get a life, Undestand that if that's the way the like to live their live, and they are happy with it, you are no one to judge. Ever since We met this new rivals, My friends have lost that interest in playing M vs c 2, because they say that Playing "cheap" is no fun at all, that playing against someone who uses cable,doom,and BH is pointless, cause there are no real combos. But not me, I still have that Flame, and I still absolutely Love playing it.I mean I have become a hell of a lot better since i met these guys. I can pull of iron mans infinite, which is easy as hell, i can do his whole air-dash to fly air-combo. And my question to anyone who could help me is: I play with Mageneto(by the way, i can do his three air super combo in real battle) Anyhoo, My team is Magneto, Ironman, and psylocke. But i have been hearing, and actually seeing how storm is such a great character. that i would like to put her into my team, but i have touble deciding who to take out of my exsisting team. I can play really well, with all three, and i love using different strategies on different opponents. So any comments would be gratly appreciated. Also What is this hear about triangle jumping? I heard something about Magneto making an ifinite out of it. >?< does anyone know anything on this? can you tell me how to do it, I do not currently have a dreamcast, but i am totally getting one next week, and i am also buying one of those MAS joysticks. So I Have sworn, God as my witness, to learn all new tactics I can & to become a true player reather than being the scrub that i have become in meeting, and knowing Sky. Again, any, and all help would be greatly appreciated, any thougths on using new tactics with my new team which will include storm, and anything on how to do this triangle jump will be used. By the way, i am planning on going to the B5, and making lots of new fellow gamers. And i do plan to attend to al least one other big tourney to help me get ready to play at my best. OROCHI RYU" reply: Make your team Magneto-A/Storm-A/Psylocke-A. Use hailstorm to prevent people from mashing out of your tempest combos and you can also use hailstorm if you mag tempest too quickly. Use Psylocke to set up launchers for both. Since psylocke sets up people to be juggled with a c.short as opposed to an OTG, you can short into launch with both mag and storm. Learn storm, read through this thread on how to play her. Triangle jumping is superjumping up and forward and dashing down+forward immediately. ____________________________________________ MyClone, Not sure, I don't really use rogue and I don't know what her glitchy stuff is about. ____________________________________________ SmuvMoney, "I wanted to ask about strategy on another team. I had asked about Jugg/Sent/Colossus, but I switched to Hulk as I seem to do better with him. Even though you suggested Colossus over Hulk, JM, I could never get the hang of the Russian so I ended up with B-Juggernaut/Y-Sentinel/Y-Hulk (Team Super Armor ). Here are my questions: * Should I use Y-Hulk over B-Hulk since I already have B-Juggernaut? B-Hulk's assist would seem redundant and sometimes I do need an AAA to cover Jugg's or Sent's head (in this case, Y-Hulk). If I asked about this already, please forgive - I think I asked this about Colossus but not Hulk. I have a short memory and this thread is LOOOOOOONG. * Could you provide some strategy on Hulk in this team as he is almost as tough to use as Colossus in some cases. I know most of the combos cancelling to supers, but I can't seem to much on the ground one on one (which may be the problem and why you suggested Colossus over Hulk in the first place...)" reply: I assume you are glitching jugg and switching Sentinel in, so in that case two ground assists would be quite redundant. From there just fly around and call jugg and do all that great Sent stuff. There isn't much you can do with hulk when it comes down to just him, but remember you can always gamma-charge and do a kick super to pressure those run-away players, and never do the gamm-crush unless you are positive you will kill an assist with it. "I also decided to try a completely new team: a-Venom, B-Silver Samurai, a-Anarakis. I either have Venom or SS on point - Venom usually starts, but then I'll switch in SS on Variable Counter or even DHC. Here are some more questions: * Anarakis' assist sets up both supers for Venom very nicely. Otherwise I'm not sure how to use "The Mummy" should he be on point or the only one left." reply: I'd put him last on this particualr team becuase he sets up a venom-web into a lightning super with sammy which will probably damn near kill most characters. If you do want him on point, you will have to be real good at dropping coffins and stuff. "* Are SS' elementals powerups (fire, lightning, ice) any good or worth the meter? I usually end up using the meter for Lightning strike combos (c.LK -> c.HP or c.MK XX Lightning) rather than the "elementals". * What would be the best DHC order for the Venom/SS/The Mummy team? Once again, thanks for your patience and your time." reply: I just answered the DHC question, but I think that his elemental supers are worthless with 2 exceptions: #1 He takes very little damage in Ice-mode, although you need a good chipping assist like Doom to make him work. #2 His fire combo into kick-super does massive damage, but may not be worth losing ths lightning super ____________________________________________ Bruton, I did better than I expected at SVGL where I took third in a 30 person tourney that Sac peeps even came to. I played horribly at Sacramento and I don't plan on going there anymore until B5 where the sticks should be fixed. ____________________________________________ Black_Jesus, "Ok jinmaster i have a question for you. I play mag/storm/psy/cammy but i have trouble rushing down a good cable. When ever i try to dash in and attact or triangle jump and attact i get hit by AAA.(ie cammy or cyke) if i try to dash in, block and be pacient cable usually calls commando or doom. Then cable just jumps back and hits firce. I can't dash in cause AAA is still in the way and if i try to super jump i get hit. When i try too call my AAA to take out his and clear the way, 3AHVB's later my AAA is usually dead. And yes i am super jumping trying to protect my helper when this happens but usually i get caught in the air blocking the beem. so help me out here jinmaster how can i sucsessfuly rush down cable when he has a good AAA??? Thankx" reply: You are at a slight disadvantage, but you can definately win. When the match starts you have to apply as much pressure as possible. Sometimes you superjump up and try to land right on top of cable, air dash up at the last second to avoid the small AAA's, go down+forward against commando assist. If it's early in the game, you can call storm to give you control of the ground so that you can either dash with it or cross over wihtout fear of assists being called by cable if he blocks or gets hit by the typhoon. When you call psylocke you need to super-jump immediately to stop cable from AHVBing you. You just need to jump sooner and get that air-dash out. You should also let cable call his assists, just block them and triangle-jump toward him till he backs up to the corner. At that point cable is usually screwed cuase he can't jump back anymore. At that point you just make him whiff his assist and go to town with your best triangle-jump, and you can throw quite a bit at this point for free. It sounds like you need to throw more in general as well. ____________________________________________ Scrubass Newbie, "I have a question, is there a way to link 2 lightning supers with storm because I heard someone from the boards say it was possible but only on the bigger characters." reply: No, but you can do a hailstorm on a non-grounded opponent and usually combo a lightning super immediately afterwards, but its generally better not to. =P ____________________________________________ gamedata, "my spiral a/cable b/cyc b or sent c against sent/bh... sent flies highj at the other side of the screen callin bh. if i keep hitting bh, we both build meter and he sometimes come to attack me. he can hit me coming after bh with hk or even rocket punches down forward from there. everytime bh makes me block, he comes, do a hk and goes away(all in flight) my assists can't reach him that far. What can i do?(he uses his tactic against my spiral on point, at the beginning of the game)" reply: He's doing what hes supposed to do, and your only shot is to #1) bring him down and #2) trap his ass. The trap is dashing fierce with knives, throw knives as he stops blocking the fierce, call sentinel assist and reload as the drones begin to hit, repeat the trap as it is impossible to escape without meter. To bring sentinel down, you can do a few things. Get knives, and do the rounndhouse 6-way attack and that will probably catch sentinel, so call your own Setinel so he has to block it and reload your knives. Another thing is to dash forward and call Cable-AAA to pressure sentinel. You can mix all this up with SJ.fierce which works very well. Don't teleport when sentinel is flying and for all that is holy DO NOT eat rocket-punches from a full screen flying sentinel, they add up all too well. ____________________________________________ inf, "Using spiral with cable and sentinel assists, when should I call cable b to break the strider/doom trap?" reply: #1) when you know you are free to call it #2) when you know either strider or doom will get hit by the first part of it. Wether strider blocks it or not is irrelevant as the point is to avoid chip damage and make strider waste his meter. With spiral, you only need to wait for your gaurd-stun to end to teleport anyhow. ____________________________________________ jBean, my friend plays a mean blackheart/sentinel trap. everytime i use my mag/storm/cyke team, its really hard for me to break his inferno/drones rush. i usually superjump and airdash d/f, but this happens only after he chips my mags health. any suggestions? reply: You have to mix up your magneto game more. Try calling storm-projectile and doing a few EM distruptors every once in a while. Sometimes call storm and then try to get in, since he can't call BH or really do anything until the typhoon passes. ____________________________________________ I'll have to ask Lamar or Hiro about the infnite with Iron man. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-27-2001).] Posted by jBeaN on 03:28:2001 03:50 AM: hey thanks jinmaster...i appreciate it Posted by Marvarapper on 03:28:2001 08:13 AM: I need help on my Mags MT combo. I cant seem to do the Hyper Grav. I always do the roundhouse that pisses me off. Is there any easier way i can do the HCB to QCF?? From another Marvel player, The Marvarapper Posted by Bruton on 03:28:2001 12:36 PM: Jinmaster: Hey, congrats! I'm not too familiar with the areas... does Sacramento=LA or close? You seemed to be able to beat most people at SVGL fairly decisively usually... who took 1st/2nd and what teams? I appreciate the help on the IM AC, thanks. MyClone: I'm not sure on the specifics of Rogue's teleporting glitch but essentially you do some attacks and you "teleport" to the other side for a crossup. I think you need a speed powerup, but I'm not sure. I think it's detailed on warganics.com. -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 03:28:2001 08:48 PM: jBeaN, You're welcome. ____________________________________________ Marvarapper, "I need help on my Mags MT combo. I cant seem to do the Hyper Grav. I always do the roundhouse that pisses me off. Is there any easier way i can do the HCB to QCF??" reply: Practice, practice, practice. These days I just hold forward during the 1,2,3, and I start the HCB motion when just as I get to 4, so that my my stick is in the down position and is still moving to back so that I hit roundhouse as I get there, then I hit the super. ___________________________________________ Bruton, "Jinmaster: Hey, congrats! I'm not too familiar with the areas... does Sacramento=LA or close? You seemed to be able to beat most people at SVGL fairly decisively usually... who took 1st/2nd and what teams?" reply: Ricky used Mag/Strom/Psycloke most of the tournament and then played Spiral/Cable/Setinel for the rest of it taking 1st and never losing a round or a match. Kim used Cable/Storm/Psylocke and took 2nd, with a few counter teams here and there. I used Spiral/Cable/Sent and Cable/Storm/Cyclops and took 3rd. I'll find out what the infinite was tomorrow I think. -Micah I appreciate the help on the IM AC, thanks. Posted by Black_Jesus on 03:28:2001 10:46 PM: one more question jinmaster. i heard ricky ortiz has a magneto combo that takes like 90% w/ no super...whf can you tell me how this is done? also how do i attack someone(w/ magneto)who just jumps around and calls assist. i can't throw them because they are in the air. if i try my standing roundhouse will come out and i'll get hit w/ an assist. is their a way to time a throw in the air or anouther way to stop this bs tactic??? let me know thankx! Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:28:2001 10:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: I'll have to ask Lamar or Hiro about the infnite with Iron man. c.short -> C.forward, C.Short (OTG) -> S.roundhouse /\ S.J.Fierce (straight) XX Air Dash Down forward, A.D.Jab -> A.D.Strong -> A.D.U.Fierce, land, J.Jab -> J.Strong -> J.Forward -> J.U.Fierce... -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:28:2001 10:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by Black_Jesus: one more question jinmaster. i heard ricky ortiz has a magneto combo that takes like 90% w/ no super...whf can you tell me how this is done? also how do i attack someone(w/ magneto)who just jumps around and calls assist. i can't throw them because they are in the air. if i try my standing roundhouse will come out and i'll get hit w/ an assist. is their a way to time a throw in the air or anouther way to stop this bs tactic??? let me know thankx! I won't go into the specifics of ricky's combo, but it's got a lot of options in it. Basically, it's he combos a Fierce air throw, lands, call psylocke, and does another combo. If no one ever techs or shakes out of the throw, you die. If you have problems with people calling assists and jumping all day, either learn to air throw or just kill the helper. C.Fierce XX magnetic Tempest is like #1 way to jack helpers with magneto/storm other than snapback infinites. Keep in mind, Mags has good air throws and you can throw someone out of an air dash. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Jinmaster on 03:28:2001 11:18 PM: Fluff is correct. Also, you can always dash under people and launch them, or call Storm-A from full screen and then dash in without fear of most assists hitting you. -Micah Posted by Bruton on 03:29:2001 12:00 AM: Jinmaster: Hmmm... tough teams. What's your counter team to Magnus/Storm/Psy? Fluffy: Thanks Fluffy! A few clarifying queries though... the OTG is really not essential, right? Can this be mixed up with his infinite to decrease the chance of an undizzy? Is it hard to do? It should be okay to do the C.MP before the launcher for a non-OTG combo right, and that's better as they should go higher to make it easier to dash down? Thanks again... I really need to get my Dreamcast back. =) -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 03:29:2001 01:46 AM: Fluffy, Can you also post how the corner combo into infnite works? Bruton, You can do the infinite off a straight launch. I beat Mag/Storm with Cable/AAA usually. Cable-AAA does have the advantage over Mag/Storm/AAA, quoth Duc. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-28-2001).] Posted by FluffyXXL on 03:29:2001 03:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Can you also post how the corner combo into infnite works? S.Roundhouse /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short, S.J.Fierce (straight), S.J.Roundhouse (OTG), {land, J.Short, J.Forward, J.U.Fierce} This is really hard to do and you have to do a straight launch, no C.Strong or OTG to launch. The timing is reall slow. There is a big gap between the S.J.Short and S.J.Fierce. There is also a gap in the J.Short, J.Forward, J.U.Fierce series. You have to delay the J.Forward as long as possible. -- FluffyXXL -Accept no immitations Posted by Servebot on 03:29:2001 04:10 AM: Hey Jinmaster i just started playing mvc2 and i'm using these teams: 1-cable(anti air), sentinel(ground), blackheart(anti air) 2-cable(anti air), cyclops(anti air), Juggernaut(dash) sometimes i uses Spiral(projectile). Can i just get some tips on how to play these teams, especially on Juggernaut. I only use him for his glitched assists.thanks Posted by jBeaN on 03:29:2001 05:58 AM: hey jinmaster, i gots a problem again my magneto/storm/cyclops(or cable) vs. blackheart/sentinel/cable. i know i'm not very good, but i can't get out of 2 traps. the first is the sentinel drone rush with bh aaa assist and the second is the bh demon release with sentinel assist. can u give me some tips on beating that team. i can play with psylocke, capcom, or cammy if need be. thanks in advance. ~jBeaN Posted by on 03:29:2001 06:06 AM: How do I combo in Iron Man's unibeam without going into Flight Mode? I broke my fist, but I still look cool. http://psychosquall.homestead.com/files/supergeek.gif Posted by Gamerzr0 on 03:29:2001 06:55 AM: Can you list IM's strengths,weakness, and which are his bad match-ups? thanks "You must remember never underestimate your opponent" Posted by strider2k on 03:29:2001 10:13 AM: i have a question concerning cable. i have cable and doom rock assist. the other guy is cable. i see other people done this before: call doom, fierceX4, viper beam. when the beam ends, the doom rocks fly off and hits the opponent's cable. usually the rocks give my cable enough time to recovery from the viper beam and do whatever. whenever i do it, i recover out of the viper beam but i don't know what to do next to keep the other cable under pressure. if i don't do anything afterwards, the opponent can ahvb my dr. doom. if you can give help, that would be appreciated. also, if you have more traps with cable as point and doom's rock assist, that would also be appreciated. thanx Posted by Bruton on 03:29:2001 02:40 PM: Roundhouse /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short, S.J.Fierce (straight), S.J.Roundhouse (OTG), {land, J.Short, J.Forward, J.U.Fierce} This is really hard to do and you have to do a straight launch, no C.Strong or OTG to launch. The timing is really slow. There is a big gap between the S.J.Short and S.J.Fierce. There is also a gap in the J.Short, J.Forward, J.U.Fierce series. You have to delay the J.Forward as long as possible. I don't find it that hard to do... I also have a SJ.MK between the SJ.LK/SJ.T.FP. I put a delay between the Short/Forward, and one between the Forward/Fierce. The aim is to be low enough for the SJ.D.RK(do you need to hold down-I do?) to jump up afterwards and put them at the right height. It's also weird, in that the screen jerks around, like Red Venom's infinite that Spider-Dan did on me. =/ I guess that's something to do with the flying screen, and no launch into AC after that? -Bruton Posted by The President of FIFA on 03:29:2001 07:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: The President of FIFA, reply: The only character I would keep is strider. Unless you want to learn Setinel and BH and just use wolverine. Learn how to use Doctor Doom-AAA so you can play strider to his max potential. =) so just kick hakata out of the group? He's got a pretty good range with his plasma sword Posted by cheese_master on 03:29:2001 08:27 PM: Jinmaster.... I was wondering what you thought of my team... Storm, Sentinel, and Blackheart. I find this team useful as a good overall counter team and as a good mix of rushdown and chipping. I usually use Storm and Blackheart to chip and runaway on teams such as Strider and Doom or Spiral or Cable. And I find Storm's lightning storm works against teleport happy people. If the other person has some other character, I can rushdown with triangle jumps and B.heart AAA or mix it up with Sentinel's ground type. Storm usually builds up supers with throws and typhoons all over with the help of Blackheart, she can also escape traps. Blackheart... is usually never point... if he is... that encompasses a lot of poking and demons to start infinite and using inferno, HOD, for chip damage. Sentinel is mainly for pseudo rushdown and Sentinel/Blackheart trap. I was just wondering what in your opinion is weakness for this team... oh yeah... I usually kill assists when I have super levels by doing one or two vertical typhoons or Blackheart AAA into a lightning dash XX lightning storm, into the Armageddon with Blackheart... and if they aren't dead, then HSF infinite. Again I just wanted your opinion of this team and some weaknesses it may have... I am thinking of using it in a tourny sooner or later... but would like to know some good counters against this team so I can know what to look for and avoid. Thanks. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:29:2001 08:53 PM: Servebot, "Hey Jinmaster i just started playing mvc2 and i'm using these teams: 1-cable(anti air), sentinel(ground), blackheart(anti air) 2-cable(anti air), cyclops(anti air), Juggernaut(dash) sometimes i uses Spiral(projectile). Can i just get some tips on how to play these teams, especially on Juggernaut. I only use him for his glitched assists.thanks" reply: team #1: start Setinel and use C.fierce + BH, and cancel into a roundhouse drones special, making sure to hold down roundhouse. The chip you get from that is amazing, and every time you set it up you are damn near 100% safe. When you have meter and you don't want to use HSF, switch in your Cable. team#2: Start Jugg, glitch him, and then either switch Cable in when its safe, or variable switch to him to clops. If you go to clops, use SJ roundhouses to build meter. Otherwise switch in cable. Jugg doesn't do much on his own, most people just normal J.fierce all day until the can get the opponent near the corner, at which point they fo for a punch throw into a glitched headcrush while mashing for 8 hits. His standard AC is launch, SJ jab, short, short, fierce, roundhouse. In the corner, you can c.short OTG and C.fierce for additional damage/hits. ____________________________________________ jBean, "my magneto/storm/cyclops(or cable) vs. blackheart/sentinel/cable. i know i'm not very good, but i can't get out of 2 traps. the first is the sentinel drone rush with bh aaa assist and the second is the bh demon release with sentinel assist. can u give me some tips on beating that team. i can play with psylocke, capcom, or cammy if need be. thanks in advance." reply: The first trap is easily escaped just by super-jumping at the correct time or by eating the inferno and air dashing over. The second trap is much more difficult to deal with but can be beaten by dashing under all the stuff BH tries to throw out and catching him with a launch, a jump-throw, or your assist. Remeber that you have to mix up what you do when you attack with Magneto. Sometimes dash forward and just wait. Sometimes you triangle jump and short X2 on the way down, sometimes you don't attack till you hit the ground, sometimes you dash over them and attack from behind. Sometimes you tick-throw. Sometimes you just throw. Sometimes you call your assist, wait, then throw. Sometimes you call your assist, cross over, and attack when you hit the ground. Sometimes you jump over the opponent, thorw out nothing, jump back over, throw. YAdda yadda yadda, etc. ____________________________________________ Supergeek, reply: Can you not activate your sig in my thread? Thanks. Anyway: "How do I combo in Iron Man's unibeam without going into Flight Mode?" reply: Why would a uni-beam put you into flight mode? Up+firce, unibeam(QCF+P) combos and does not activate flight, which is qcb+kk. ____________________________________________ Gamerzero, "Can you list IM's strengths,weakness, and which are his bad match-ups?" Iron-man's strength is that #1 all his normals are fast and useful. #2 he can set up the infinite from a launch #3 he can pressure from the sky, above you with knee stomps and from far off with smart-bombs. #4 he can cancel knee stomps into flight to call assists and unfly just like Setinel #5 J. fierce has long range and does not count as part of his body as far as I know #6 his AAA is one of the most damaging assists in the game when it hits multiple times #7 DHC to proton cannon is immediate #8 Smartbombs go through hailstorm #9 S.fierce cancels most fireballs and projectiles. Ironman is weak vs teams with full vertical AAA's such as blackheart and commando. ____________________________________________ strider2k, "i have a question concerning cable. i have cable and doom rock assist. the other guy is cable. i see other people done this before: call doom, fierceX4, viper beam. when the beam ends, the doom rocks fly off and hits the opponent's cable. usually the rocks give my cable enough time to recovery from the viper beam and do whatever. whenever i do it, i recover out of the viper beam but i don't know what to do next to keep the other cable under pressure. if i don't do anything afterwards, the opponent can ahvb my dr. doom. if you can give help, that would be appreciated. also, if you have more traps with cable as point and doom's rock assist, that would also be appreciated. thanx" reply: When doom's rocks are hitting, you are free to move, and thats where you SJ.fierce, short-gernade(hold to throw farther). That will give you control, so that you can come down where you want to. Not sure of any other trap potential things there are with those two, but you could try calling doom and fierce X4 and throw a gernade. ___________________________________________ FIFA PREZ, reply: Hyato is probably the 3rd to 4th worst character in the game, his sword does have range but his moves are slow and his dashes are slow and he cannot alter his descent from any jump with the exception of the DP, so he looses to just about every balanced team for free. He contributes nothing to trap tactics and his assists all pretty much suck. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-29-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:29:2001 09:01 PM: Cheese_master, "I was wondering what you thought of my team... Storm, Sentinel, and Blackheart. I find this team useful as a good overall counter team and as a good mix of rushdown and chipping. I usually use Storm and Blackheart to chip and runaway on teams such as Strider and Doom or Spiral or Cable. And I find Storm's lightning storm works against teleport happy people. If the other person has some other character, I can rushdown with triangle jumps and B.heart AAA or mix it up with Sentinel's ground type. Storm usually builds up supers with throws and typhoons all over with the help of Blackheart, she can also escape traps. Blackheart... is usually never point... if he is... that encompasses a lot of poking and demons to start infinite and using inferno, HOD, for chip damage. Sentinel is mainly for pseudo rushdown and Sentinel/Blackheart trap. I was just wondering what in your opinion is weakness for this team... oh yeah... I usually kill assists when I have super levels by doing one or two vertical typhoons or Blackheart AAA into a lightning dash XX lightning storm, into the Armageddon with Blackheart... and if they aren't dead, then HSF infinite. Again I just wanted your opinion of this team and some weaknesses it may have... I am thinking of using it in a tourny sooner or later... but would like to know some good counters against this team so I can know what to look for and avoid. Thanks." reply: Well, I have somewhat discussed Sent/Storm/BH in this thread, most of what you'd want to know is there. It's a great team but has major weaknesses vs Cable, so you have to play a very good storm once a meter-filled cable comes in. I would start sentinel against non-cables. The killer 5 level DHC is when you switch storm in so your team is Storm/sent/bh, AC to lightning storm, delayed HSF, launch, 1,2,3,4, punch super in air, Armageddon, hailstorm. Kills everything, and you can stop the combo when you see fit. This team works well against Spiral teams. -Micah Posted by Dc1 on 03:30:2001 02:46 AM: jinmaster: I really love to play with psylcok in fact she was the first i played withwhenthe game came out but i slack off a little(practicing cable magneto and storm) and i sortof lost track on how to play her, so i ask for all u skilled players here on SRK to help me out: I'm interested in : 1)her most damaging combo 2)her longest combo(triple jusmp) without using a super:to built levels 3)tips on her rush-down(i heard she got a ill rushdown game) 4)is her infinite only doable on juggernaut? 5)i use her with doom and stridr, any team strategy involving her and doom(rashdown, etc.) please give me some help Dc1 out! Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 02:57 AM: Dc1, "jinmaster: I really love to play with psylcok in fact she was the first i played withwhenthe game came out but i slack off a little(practicing cable magneto and storm) and i sortof lost track on how to play her, so i ask for all u skilled players here on SRK to help me out: I'm interested in : 1)her most damaging combo" reply: I barely use her but I'm playing around with the damage scaling myself, it seems that you should double-jump into the kick-AAA-special into thew buterlies every time regardless. "2)her longest combo(triple jusmp) without using a super:to built levels" I can't do it, but you can time a J.jab after the up+roundhouse and continue a combo, but I think that would put you off the screen after the second up+roundhouse. "3)tips on her rush-down(i heard she got a ill rushdown game)" reply: Wave-dashing is hella good for her, and a lot of players like to dash forward with fierce quite a bit and throw a projectile and do it over and over. Some people will psy-blade since it works as anti-aor and you can butterly afterward. "4)is her infinite only doable on juggernaut?" reply: Heh, I never knew she had an infinite, I never seen it used by any top players either... "5)i use her with doom and stridr, any team strategy involving her and doom(rashdown, etc.) please give me some help" reply: The power of psylocke is her AAA, as her assist will hit and leave people vulnerable for a great length of time. Unlike clops, if anything gets hit by any part of her AAA, they are vulnerable till they hit the ground, which means well-timed short-OTG's are unrollable. Also, after a Double-jump into butterfly AC, you can call assists as you are falling, so you can use that to your advantage and possibly set up another combo with your doom-AAA by juggling them before they get a chance to hit the ground after the butterflies. -Micah Posted by MarkyMark on 03:30:2001 02:57 AM: Strider/Doom/CapCom or Strider/Doom/Blackheart? Fin. Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com videogamers.fandom.com Posted by jBeaN on 03:30:2001 03:01 AM: thanks again jinmaster ~jBeaN Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 03:04 AM: MarkyMark, I prefer commando just becuase he is better in close than blackheart is and he does far more damage, and maybe its just me but he comes out faster? Also, I feel that the teams success revolves around strider, and since commando facilitates what strider has to do better than BH, BH seems to be used in case Strider fails miserably to aid doom. I really think BH is bad at playing catch-up, where when you have Doom in you can use commando to keep the pixies off you. -Micah Posted by MarkyMark on 03:30:2001 03:13 AM: CapCom comes out a lot faster than Blackheart, yeah. Why I like Blackheart, though, is because he aids Doom more than CapCom (in most cases - Magneto and rushing Storm are exceptions), and Blackheart can fight a whole lot better on his own than can CapCom. I do love your point that the team does indeed revolve about Strider, and that CapCom does indeed add more to Strider's game plan than does Blackheart. I might start learning CapCom. ...And so a new question (errr, set of questions). What are some good ways to come back with Doom/CapCom, if Strider were to fall unhappily to some unfortunate AHVB or Mag Tempest combos? And also, how the Hell do you play CapCom effectively against a third character - say, Psylocke or Cyclops? If Doom is dying hard, is it worth pulling in CapCom (air combo, Super Photons, Captain Sword) to let Doom come back (and utilize his great assist) or is Doom on point, with CapCom's support, just too superior to the reverse order? Fin. Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com videogamers.fandom.com [This message has been edited by MarkyMark (edited 03-29-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 03:34 AM: MarkyMark, "Why I like Blackheart, though, is because he aids Doom more than CapCom (in most cases - Magneto and rushing Storm are exceptions), and Blackheart can fight a whole lot better on his own than can Doom." Yes and no, it kind of depends on what you are facing. BH tends to do very well becuase being unpredictable with him is relatively easy while being unpredictable with Doom is well, kind of possible but not really? More on this in a sec... "I do love your point that the team does indeed revolve about Strider, and that CapCom does indeed add more to Strider's game plan than does Blackheart. I might start learning CapCom. ...And so a new question (errr, set of questions). What are some good ways to come back with Doom/CapCom, if Strider were to fall unhappily to some unfortunate AHVB or Mag Tempest combos?" reply: The reason that Doom/Capcom is a better choice is becuase they are supposed to finish off whatever Strider started. Think, who can threaten you with massive damage when you screw up faster: Commando or BH? When Strider dies, he usually has killed someone or has damaged two people serverly. However, in the event that strider dies somewhat early, its up to doom to chip the crap out of everyone. Ok, to make it clear, when strider dies, you should STILL be winning in terms of life. If you play strider really well and you don't fuck up his teleports or his Uro, this will always be the case. Even if he gets blown by a clops assists and an AHVB, he should still do that damage and if he can't then you can't beat cable with Doom/anyone. So when you have that lead, you have doom, who has an advantage over almost every character below him, and commando, who lets you fight air-borne characters from the ground. When we talk about controlling space and someone on point after strider dies, Doom has to be the one on point and you don't want him on point without some kind of anti-ruishdown AAA becuase doom gets rushed down by nearly every top team in the game when he doesn't have BH. You mentioned storm and magneto, you see them quite a bit correct? What about cammy? You probably don't see her too often in Sacramento, but what if they had a Cable team with Cammy as the AAA? You loose for free when strider is gone, cuase doom can't even do anything in the air. At least with commando, you can actually hurt their assists. I mean, you can use Blackheart to win, but to me its all about maintaining your lead, and you loose the lead as Doom becuase of either rushdown or an opposing BH assist/Cammy-assist, or a Cable that didn't die. I REALLY DISLIKE BH against cable. "And also, how the Hell do you play CapCom effectively against a third character - say, Psylocke or Cyclops? If Doom is dying hard, is it worth pulling in CapCom (air combo, Super Photons, Captain Sword) to let Doom come back (and utilize his great assist) or is Doom on point, with CapCom's support, just too superior to the reverse order?" Capcom is very good with Doom's assist, so it is kind of important to keep Doom alive, as you are more likely to catch up. You can do cute things like call Doom and do a captain kick, which lets you not only cross over but also protect doom, and get a free ninja off. When they start calling assists to get them off, just corridor/sword em. And land those mashed kick supers, they rule. Question for you, who the hell is tim? -Micah Posted by CaptainCanada on 03:30:2001 06:54 AM: One of my questions has been covered for the most part, but I also had a few more after that...it's pretty cool to see how big this post has gotten. If you've ever seen me here before, you might know that (since I mention it so damn often) I use Doom-B/Cable-B/CapCom-B. My gameplan goes as follows: Doom starts the match, and brings out CapCom at the "FIGHT!" point of the match to put a stop to whatever the opponent's got planned. Question #1: Would Cable's AAA be a better choice than CapCom AAA at the start? I've seen Nyte use it here before...it looks like it might set the opponent up for some air Fierce damage from Doom. What's the best way to start a match out with Doom? For the first part of the match, I generally do with Doom what I've learned from this site. SJ Photons, J. Fierce + Cable AAA (the "Ghetto Doom/BH" trap ), Commando assist followed by jump in/launcher combo to put on pressure if I can...repeat. Question 2: Are there any other tactics I can use with Doom? This strategy builds meter, chips, and keeps them away for the most part...anything I'm missing here? And which assist should I use more to help Doom? When I've got enough meter, (surprise!) in comes Cable. Since my competition's usually made of scrubs, I tend to use a regular Jab+Short switch instead of a meter-eating DHC. Question 3: This isn't all that safe, and I'd probably get eaten in high-level play. When would be a good time to switch in normally? Or should I just get used to using the Doom/Cable DHC switch? Cable does the most damage out of my whole team, using annoying Doom-B + Fierce/Viper Beam tactics, AHVBing mistakes and assists...until he gets low on life, low on meter, or gets killed. Question 4 (this has kinda been covered already): When Cable dies, and I still have some meter left, is it safe to bring in CapCom for the first time, or should I leave Doom in and use CapCom's assist in an offensive rush? I remember Valle leaving Doom in after Strider was killed off...is this a better choice in the match? My CapCom's capable of hurting the other team more (and he'd have the Doom Assist to back him up), but then again, it's nice to build meter with Doom till he gets killed, then let CapCom come back from behind with a MAX bar. As always, any help is appreciated here. I've almost got this team down. [This message has been edited by CaptainCanada (edited 03-29-2001).] Posted by Bernie on 03:30:2001 07:21 AM: I have a question. I was watching the Texas Tournament tapes and I saw something that Ricky and Duc did with Storm that was totally new to me. Instead of finishing air combos normally with lightning attack XX lightning storm, what they did was the first 4 hits, then air dashed under and behind the opponent, and then did lightning attack x2 XX lightning storm for far more damage than normal because they stopped the combo and rescaled the damage. What I want to know is if you knew exactly how they did it. I can cancel the combo into the air dash fine, but I have trouble aiming the lightning attack afterwards. If you're familiar with the "combo", can you tell the timing and directions I should try? And how would you defend against it (block it correctly)? The reason I'm asking this is because every time they pulled it off on the tape, the opponent didn't block correctly and ended up taking something like 70% damage from the whole thing. Thanks. Posted by MarkyMark on 03:30:2001 08:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Question for you, who the hell is tim? I've no idea . If I've seen him before, I didn't know it. I kinda hope I don't run into him. Thanks again for the advice. I'm working on learning CapCom now. Fin. Mark Ryan Sallee markryansallee@yahoo.com videogamers.fandom.com Posted by XxDeathxX on 03:30:2001 09:51 AM: Bernie.. one quick question.. where did u get this tape from? Any info would be great, thanks! Posted by doombh on 03:30:2001 09:57 AM: by strider-shiedoshaw "here's what i mean. the opponenets blocking motion won't begin unless you attack them right. If you just crouch in front of them and do nothing, they can't block, because you aren't giving them an attack to block. So, to use assists in this manner, get close to your opponent, cross them up (jump to the other side) and call out your assist right when your are above them, so that your assist comes out from one side and you land on the other side of them. What happens is, since you just land to the right and don't attack, the opponent can't initiate the block, and they get hit from behind all the time. They can't from behind Try it with ice man's projectile assist. Walk up to somebody who's blocking, jump over them at the peak of your jump, call out ice man assist, land on the other side, and block. They'll always get shot in the back. I'm pretty sure you can see where this is going with strider's teleports.... " Is this true? Posted by doombh on 03:30:2001 10:00 AM: by psionic tempest "I know i said to try it w/ ALLGUARD in practice mode, but i tried it w/ against my friend in practice mode, so i figured it work that way also. I may have been incorrect against ALLGUARD, but i am 100% sure it works against a human. Its hard to do consistently. I didnt say to teleport either. It works w/ me when you normal jump over your opponent, and at the peak of the jump call doom, and block as you land. Works every time. The oponent backs into doom if using standing block, or just sits there and eats rock if its crouch block. I will try against allguard this weekend. Maybe the ALLGuard blocks eveything, reguardless as you said. If you can try it w/ a friend try it. The opponent WILL be able to block if Doom appears while you are on the same side of the opponent as Doom is. " or this way? Posted by Bruton on 03:30:2001 07:20 PM: Okay, another question Jinmaster/Fluffy/anyone. =) Anakaris's infinite with Cyclops Beta. One of my fun teams has been Rogue/Anakaris/Jill. Diving kick, four hit magic to SRP EX Royal Curse EX Tyrant. However, I was wondering. Royal Curse can be OTG'd after... not sure if they can roll or not. So, is it possible to Royal Curse cancel, C.LK, C.FP(call Cyke), infinite? It should work if there's no helper used to setup Rogue, right? Tried the IM AC setup... extremely hard, haven't got it yet. -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 08:27 PM: Bernie, "I have a question. I was watching the Texas Tournament tapes and I saw something that Ricky and Duc did with Storm that was totally new to me. Instead of finishing air combos normally with lightning attack XX lightning storm, what they did was the first 4 hits, then air dashed under and behind the opponent, and then did lightning attack x2 XX lightning storm for far more damage than normal because they stopped the combo and rescaled the damage. What I want to know is if you knew exactly how they did it. I can cancel the combo into the air dash fine, but I have trouble aiming the lightning attack afterwards. If you're familiar with the "combo", can you tell the timing and directions I should try? And how would you defend against it (block it correctly)? The reason I'm asking this is because every time they pulled it off on the tape, the opponent didn't block correctly and ended up taking something like 70% damage from the whole thing." reply: Ricky was doing that at SVGL too. The reason the damage is so high is becuase the combo resets and the damage scale is reset. So you can counter this tactic by holding forward during the AC. Ricky will never screw up a combo on you from the front, so you could just hold forward to prevent him from attacking you from behind. I don't know if you have to do a HCF or HCB for the lightning storm to come out after a SJ crossup lightning attack, my experience says that you need to use the same motion that you would have used before, but then again the combo reset so my experience may be backwards. I haven't got a chance to go to practice mode to see how to really do it, although I probably should before my next tourney. ____________________________________________ Doombh, Don't beleive them. When an assist is attacking on the screen, you only need to block away from the point character. ____________________________________________ Bruton, #1 I haven't done the IM AC myself, I've only seen it done, so I can't offer too much advice there. #2 Can you ask you Anakris question again in lamen's terms? I don't know what his supers names are, so can you explain which ones you are trying to combo? -Micah Posted by SiN on 03:30:2001 08:56 PM: What tactics do you use to fight Magneto and Storm one-on-one with Blackheart? Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 08:56 PM: I got this off a different forum, not sure if its valid but it sounds right: "So, she's not quite Magneto for combos, but she does have one evil, evil trick up her sleeve - you launch into a standard four hit chain, then air dash down-toward, which takes you under and across them. You then Lightning Attack back across at them twice, then cancel to Lightning Storm. This does about 80% damage, because it's not a combo. The reason it works is because they can block, but they have to block TOWARD Storm, not away from her. By the same token, when you do the Lighting Storm motion, you have to do it BACKWARDS. That's because the game always considers you to be facing the direction you were when you launched them, and the same is true of them. This trick is deadly, deadly, deadly, as it basically is the same, move-wise, as Storm's bread-and-butter AC, yet it does THREE TIMES as much damage." -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 09:04 PM: Sin, "What tactics do you use to fight Magneto and Storm one-on-one with Blackheart? " The same way you play him vs everyone else, except you will probably use more short-forward pokes against them and a lot of jump-back-fierces. Otherwise, standard careful BH play is the same. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 03-30-2001).] Posted by Bernie on 03:30:2001 09:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: I got this off a different forum, not sure if its valid but it sounds right: "So, she's not quite Magneto for combos, but she does have one evil, evil trick up her sleeve - you launch into a standard four hit chain, then air dash down-toward, which takes you under and across them. You then Lightning Attack back across at them twice, then cancel to Lightning Storm. This does about 80% damage, because it's not a combo. The reason it works is because they can block, but they have to block TOWARD Storm, not away from her. By the same token, when you do the Lighting Storm motion, you have to do it BACKWARDS. That's because the game always considers you to be facing the direction you were when you launched them, and the same is true of them. This trick is deadly, deadly, deadly, as it basically is the same, move-wise, as Storm's bread-and-butter AC, yet it does THREE TIMES as much damage." -Micah hehe, I've seen this already. It was Dr. Deelite that posted that. I just wanted to ask you in case you knew of how exactly Ricky did it as I'm not connecting on it consistantly enough. Sort of a second opinion. I've done it a few times, but I'm still having trouble with it. Thanks for the help anyway. XxDeathxX, go into the Texas Tournament results thread. There's a post in there which will tell you how to order the tapes. Posted by Jinmaster on 03:30:2001 09:59 PM: Bernie, When I give it a few shots at home I'll post my findings. -Micah Posted by loki on 03:30:2001 11:27 PM: guard breaking and team selection strategy my teams are Spiderman, Ken, Tron Spiderman, Ken, Strider Spiderman, Strider, Jin i don't know if i should keep Jin, or Strider. I am not shure what your teams are, so i don't know if you can help me with this, but much thanks if you can. I like strider for his agressiveness, and ability to dominate, and Jin for his power, and his ability to difuse situations and turn them around. Who do you think i should keep? cap commando works well when i need to use an assist character to break the opponents gaurd when they superjump, but is there anyone else that you know of that works well in that situation? Posted by g on 03:31:2001 04:41 AM: If I have cable/clops against cable/storm/whatever, and I know that if I call clops cable can ahvb him into hail into whatever to death, is there a way to call him safely, without wasting ahvbs? Posted by zz on 03:31:2001 04:42 AM: It’s dangerous to do blocked cable’s LK, MK, HK against another cable? What my opponents can do against it? Can I use cyc assist(or maybe storm, spiral or sent ones) to make it safe? How? Posted by g on 03:31:2001 04:47 AM: Is mag storm psy Ricky's main team now? Which one of his teams do you think ity's the best(at his hands)? Another one:With storm/cyc, instead of crossups, I protect my assist doing sj. air dash up HP, vert. typhoon. Isn’t this safer and better than the crossups? Posted by Stormboy on 03:31:2001 10:24 AM: Hi Jinmaster, I have a few more questions for you. Who has the upper hand in a magneto vs spiral fight? I'm using magneto and I can't get near her, when I do, she usually has cyclops-aaa backing her up. What can I do? Previously you said you'll pick Ken-aaa against a team with BH on point. How about cyclops-aaa? it has invincibility frames and would stop BH w/cyc rushdown..of course ken-aaa will outright beat cyc-aaa, but picking ken-aaa usually means sacarficing a point character. What would you do in a cable vs cable fight..or rather what won't you do? like what is "safe" (ie non-AHVBable). I think HPx4 is safe, grenades are safe if you finish tossing them. same with j.HK or sj.HK. I'm looking for some expert strats cause I usually play some good cables. And finally can you list some counter teams for 1. cammy/storm/cyc 2. sprial/cable/cyc 3. cable/bh/cyc 4. spiral/cable/sent (no explainations needed) Posted by AAA on 04:01:2001 10:00 PM: You said that one rotation of cable HP x 4 + spiral assist would be safe against another cable.but how do I start that without being ahvbed? I mean, how to connect the first HP safely? And what’s the right moment to call spiral at this trap? Posted by dreamteam on 04:01:2001 10:08 PM: I was practicing gbs on training and I did it this way. Snapback, jump back HP(gb or hits), AHVB. I was hitting CPU with the ahvb 70% of the time9doesn’t matter if the HP was blocked or not). Do you think that’s a good execution ratio for tourney level? What’s yours gb percentage(at the same situation)? Do you know the ones from other top players? Thanks! Posted by gamedata on 04:01:2001 10:12 PM: Fluffy or Jin, could any of you elaborate about the uses of Spiral’s blocked circle of swords into metamortph and into gb? I would like to know exactly how to do the blocked circle into metamorph(good times to do it and all the info you can provide me)? And I would like to know too exactly how to do that gb whne the opponent comes in, block a circle of knives, and then spiral tags cable in and the opponent can’t block it, so cable can do ahvbs for free. Thank you very much! Posted by *Dp on 04:02:2001 01:00 AM: Jin, do you think Doom/BH are tournament material from your tourney experience? Besides the basic Photons/Call BH assist...Jumping Demons/call Doom assist what else do they have and do you think that they have a chance against spiral,Cable,Mag/Storm rushdown and "HIGH-LEVEL" play(Duc,Alex,Ricky,you etc.....) Why aren't there any tourney results with BH/Doom? When people use them what major mistakes do they do? Also what makes duc's "new" team (correct me if I'm wrong) of Spiral/Cable/Sent. so good? thanks Posted by K.I.C Ass Guy on 04:02:2001 02:08 AM: help me with doc doom please any traps combos what so ever. and tell me his strongest air combo thanks Posted by Bruton on 04:02:2001 04:30 AM: Killing all three characters with one of Rogue's diving kicks. Jinmaster: Okay, what I was doing before was doing Rogue's Down.J.RK(Divekick), S.LP, S.LK, S.MP, S.MK XX Super Rushing Punches(QCF+2P), EX to Anakaris's Royal Curse(RK, LP, down, LK, FP) EX to Jill's Tyrant Super(QCB+2K). The cancel to Anakaris so long as they're fairly tall and before Rogue launches them, and the cancel to Jill before the Sarcophagus drops. However, I was thinking about the Anakaris/Cyke-Beta infinite-(C.LK, C.FP-call Cyke here, SJ.LK, SJ.MK XX Curse(QCF+K)), and how Viscant said you can kill a whole team with it if you do it right(i.e. guardbreak or not when they jump in). Anakaris's Royal Curse super allows an OTG with C.LK after the Sarcophagus, so is it possible to set up the infinite by using Cyclops(after coffin, C.LK, C.FP-call Cyke, etc.) instead of Jill up above, and instead of doing a third super, you do the infinite instead? I think this would work, if you don't use an assist to set up Rogue's combo at the start. -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 04:02:2001 11:28 PM: My Status I've been very busy lately, I will heopfully get back on track in a few days. -Micah Posted by Dem-Dem on 04:03:2001 01:51 AM: wolvie I use magneto B, Ironman B, Wolverine/W metal claws B. what are some strat's with wolverine for this team. combos into supers would be helpful since he loses power like a little girl. Posted by CaptainCanada on 04:03:2001 03:27 AM: I had a big opportunity in a match today, but blew it. My opponent had backed my almost-dead Doom into the corner, and DHC switched out Guile for Cable, chipping away at Doom in the corner with the HVB. As the super was going on, I could only think of one thing: "Try an aerial rave after this." I launched him and tried for Doom's "Pink Shit" air combo, but blew the Photon Array motion at the end. He ended up killing me shortly after. I kicked myself after this, thinking that I could have landed Doom's Sphere Flame (or, as I like to call it, the Photon Cannon), and DHCed into the Captain Sword. I might have had the match with that... So, I got a couple quick questions about this: 1) Could the Flame have come out fast enough after the blocked HVB? How bad is the HVB's recovery time? 2) How reliable is the Captain Sword? It seems like it only connects for good damage about half the time, and the other half, it hits them about three times and goes through them for almost nothing. 3) About Doom's air combo: Can you start the Array just after the second LK hits, or will that not do decent enough damage? I'm trying to find the easiest way to land this without having to airdash (still haven't gotten that down yet) Jinmaster, I know you're caught up in...stuff...so if anybody else could get this straight for me, that'd be great. Oh yeah. Jin, did you ever see my last post? Posted by Bruton on 04:03:2001 06:48 AM: The HVB has bad recovery time(ground, of course). I would have landed, dashed with LP/LK, S.MP, S.RK(one-hit) XX Electric Pulsar EX Captain Storm. or C.LK, C.MP, C.FP, four hits to Photon Array EX Captain Sword. Jinmaster: A friend of mine told me that Anakaris's Pharoah Magic(I was calling Royal Curse) causes Pseudo-flying Screen(like Gamma Crush). I'm not sure if this prevents helper calls. -Bruton Posted by doombh on 04:03:2001 04:40 PM: by 3pwood "Also, against Cable, you're going to want to make use of Strider's birds. If you press the button to call out doom, then call a bird before Doom appears and cancel to Oroborous, Cable can't AHVB you because he'd catch a bird in the face as soon as he left the ground. -Threepwood" So how do I beat it with my cable/storm/cyc team(cable on point)? Thanks Posted by powerful on 04:03:2001 04:42 PM: Do you use snapbacks often? I only use it at combos. Are there situations when I should do snapbacks outside of combos? Which ones? I play Spiral, Storm and Cable. My opponents play all the top tiers. Thanks Posted by luigi on 04:03:2001 04:45 PM: With Storm/cable/Cyc against BH/Commando teams, I prefer to call cable B instead of cyc after they call Bh or Commando because it keeps the assist away for more time. Is it the best tactic at this situation or should I stay calling cyc? Posted by battlefield on 04:03:2001 04:48 PM: On the vids, Duc’s cable always avoid being cornered by Valle’s sent. I play cable/aaa and I find easier to beat sent/bh if I’m in the corner(no crossups). Is this true at tourney level too, and Duc just played that way because the lack of an AAA? Or it’s really better to cable/whoever get out of the corner against sent/bh? Why? Any details would be great. Thanks Posted by zz on 04:03:2001 04:50 PM: I need all the details of how to fight my Storm/AAA against Commando assist. Thank you very much! Posted by msf on 04:03:2001 04:53 PM: When magneto does an EM disruptor, cable can block and ahvb him. Butb when he does it very cose to the ground, the landing animation cancels most of the lag. Is it really safe from AHVB? I saw Valle doing it this way against Duc in a vid, and Duc couldn’t ahvb him(maybe that was just a mistake by pressure, that’s why I’m asking you). Posted by tommy on 04:03:2001 04:54 PM: I’m doing this with my storm against Commando assist. I call Cyclops(which will make my opponent’s point blocks and take out commando if he’s coming), then immediately I sj, air dash up into fierce into typhoon. When I do the typhoon only my feet are on the screen. Until now, Commando assist hasn’t hitted me when I do this tactic right. And the typhoon protects my cyc. Do you think this can be(or already is) a tournament worthy tactic? Are there any flaws that people can exploit in my tactic? Thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:03:2001 05:34 PM: Shoryuken forums must die! quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster I've been very busy lately, I will heopfully get back on track in a few days. I just spent two hours righting a post, and found out that it exceeded the 10000 word post limit. When I hit my back button to shorten the post, it only refreshed the first quote, not the enire post. Just to let everyone know, SRK forums are really annoying now. I'll try to break this up a bit more now. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:03:2001 05:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by tommy I’m doing this with my storm against Commando assist. I call Cyclops(which will make my opponent’s point blocks and take out commando if he’s coming), then immediately I sj, air dash up into fierce into typhoon. When I do the typhoon only my feet are on the screen. Until now, Commando assist hasn’t hitted me when I do this tactic right. And the typhoon protects my cyc. Do you think this can be(or already is) a tournament worthy tactic? Are there any flaws that people can exploit in my tactic? Yes, this is good. Don't always do more than one typhoon though cuz they can still get away and call commando on you. Either just block and come down or lightning attack to the other side while dodging commando assist again. quote: Originally posted by zz I need all the details of how to fight my Storm/AAA against Commando assist. Thank you very much! Do what Tommy said. quote: Originally posted by luigi With Storm/cable/Cyc against BH/Commando teams, I prefer to call cable B instead of cyc after they call Bh or Commando because it keeps the assist away for more time. Is it the best tactic at this situation or should I stay calling cyc? If it works, do it. Anything you can do to break up the rhythm of BH/Commando is good. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:03:2001 05:52 PM: loki, "my teams are Spiderman, Ken, Tron Spiderman, Ken, Strider Spiderman, Strider, Jin i don't know if i should keep Jin, or Strider. I am not shure what your teams are, so i don't know if you can help me with this, but much thanks if you can. I like strider for his agressiveness, and ability to dominate, and Jin for his power, and his ability to difuse situations and turn them around. Who do you think i should keep? cap commando works well when i need to use an assist character to break the opponents gaurd when they superjump, but is there anyone else that you know of that works well in that situation?" reply: Ok, first a few facts and opinions: 1)Jin is not very good at turning unfavorable situations back in your favor. =) 2)You cannot gaurd-break someone on a SJ arc. With that out of the way, I'd make your team Strider-B/Doom-B/Commando-B or Strider-B/Doom-B/Jin-B. Learn to trap people with strider Uro and Doom assist and then play doom as effectively as possible with your AAA assist. __________________________________________________ _________ g, "If I have cable/clops against cable/storm/whatever, and I know that if I call clops cable can ahvb him into hail into whatever to death, is there a way to call him safely, without wasting ahvbs?" reply: Don't call your assist unless you know you can cross over them with a super-jump, or can cover the situation with a SJ-gernade. Using your gernade is risky, but its an option. Just remember to immediately super-jump or dash-jump over the other cable when you call your assist, and unless clops was so hurt that 10% of an AHVB and a DHC to storm would kill it, you should be fine. Clops is not the best assist in the world to be thrown out there for no reason in a Cable/Cable fight. "Is mag storm psy Ricky's main team now? Which one of his teams do you think ity's the best(at his hands)?" reply: That team is his screw-around team that he is using in tournaments becuase he thinks that his best teams are kind of boring. I think his Spiral/Cable/Sent and his Cable/Storm Psy are both top-notch. His magneto team is also very good, but other good players have been doing it longer. "Another one:With storm/cyc, instead of crossups, I protect my assist doing sj. air dash up HP, vert. typhoon. Isn’t this safer and better than the crossups?" reply: Yes and no, it really depends on the other guy's team and how good he is. SJ with vert typhoons is the safet way to protect your assist, but its also the least likely way of scoring any damage. Eventually, you have to take some risks or fake some super-jumps to get your hailstorms off and your clops to hit. __________________________________________________ ________ zz, "It’s dangerous to do blocked cable’s LK, MK, HK against another cable? What my opponents can do against it? Can I use cyc assist(or maybe storm, spiral or sent ones) to make it safe? How?" reply: If they block a roundhouse then they have a split second to AHVB you, so cover yourself by calling clops at the same time you hit roundhouse, then SJ over or try a gernade then SJ over. With storm-A or Spiral-A, call them at the same time you hit the first short, by the time your roundhouse finishes the tornado/knives will just finish hitting, giving you time to SJ over. __________________________________________________ _________ Stormboy, "Hi Jinmaster, I have a few more questions for you. Who has the upper hand in a magneto vs spiral fight? I'm using magneto and I can't get near her, when I do, she usually has cyclops-aaa backing her up. What can I do?" reply: Typically, spiral doesn't have a serious AAA on her team becuase serious AAA's other than BH and Doom will not facilitate her trap tactics very well. In the event that she does have an AAA, there are a few things you can do to make spiral players go crazy. Assuming you have Storm-A second on your team, you can do certain things to make it so that Spiral cannot get her knives started or flying towards you. From the start of the match, spiral is ineffective vs magneto without knives. You don't have to mindlessly rush her down to keep her from calling them. What I like to do is get away from her and call storm and dash forward and block, the AAA will come out, it will get hit by the typhoon, spiral will typically have to block the typhoon as well, and you get a free triangle-jump attempt or tick-throw attempt at her. Another thing you can do is just jump up with her and EM-disruptor when she calls knives. You can even out-trap her by calling storm from full-screen and pumping out EM-disrputors. Sometimes I abuse his downward projectile(up to forward + fierce), I superjump up and throw a few, forcing her to dodge or block them or teleport, if I know she is teleporting I kick super and DHC to hailstorm ASAP for a free super on her. Lastly, you can SJ up and save your air dash, pretend to land right on top of her and air dash straight up again, then come down when their AAA whiffs. You have a side option of turning on flight mode with Mag, faking your SJ jump-in and calling your AAA assist, which will likely cuase some damage or confusion. You can throw more downward projectiles from there. You DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE TO RUSH DOWN. =) "Previously you said you'll pick Ken-aaa against a team with BH on point. How about cyclops-aaa? it has invincibility frames and would stop BH w/cyc rushdown..of course ken-aaa will outright beat cyc-aaa, but picking ken-aaa usually means sacarficing a point character." reply: Cyke-AAA will not help you very much vs a good BH player. Cyke is only invincible for the first hit, the only reason his AAA is better than say, Ryu's AAA is the fact that it hits multiple times after the first hit and it sets up most supers and air-combos. Cyke will not go through roundhouse demons, and if BH sj's up and makes you block a roundhouse, he gets to air dash over and cross-you up with short-forward on the way down almost for free. You have like 1 tiny window to even call an assist during that trap tactic, and when you do call one you want it to count. Yes, Clops is a far more useful point character then Ken, but Ken is for counter teams as that would be my point in choosing him. "What would you do in a cable vs cable fight..or rather what won't you do? like what is "safe" (ie non-AHVBable). I think HPx4 is safe, grenades are safe if you finish tossing them. same with j.HK or sj.HK. I'm looking for some expert strats cause I usually play some good cables." Normal jumping, s.+c.roundhouse, all normal beams, fierce-X4, are all unsafe vs another cable. AHVB is not safe if you do it high and you barely knick the top of the other cable's hair. Does this mean you can't do any of these things vs another cable? No, you just don't want to be predictable at all costs. If one Cable does a S.fierce, the other cable can start his AHVB before the bullet hits, but the bullet will still hit, sp unless an assist took the bullet for you, you will be knocked out of AHVB. However, after his delay of fierce X 4, there is time to AHVB any gernade attempt, but the other cable can make his move safe by scimitar into AHVB. "And finally can you list some counter teams for 1. cammy/storm/cyc" reply: Go Spiral-A/Cable-B/Blackheart-B or Cable/Storm/Commando "2. sprial/cable/cyc" reply: Setinel/Storm/BH "3. cable/bh/cyc" reply: Cable/Storm/Commando+Ken or Sentinel/Cable/BH "4. spiral/cable/sent (no explainations needed)" reply: Cable/Storm/BH or Cable/Storm/Psylocke or Sentinel/Storm/BH __________________________________________________ _________ AAA, "You said that one rotation of cable HP x 4 + spiral assist would be safe against another cable.but how do I start that without being ahvbed? I mean, how to connect the first HP safely? And what’s the right moment to call spiral at this trap?" reply: You can make the block a short-forward first, then hit the fierces. You should not do it when the other cable is falling from a super-jump. If you are fairly random with it and only do it when the bullets will hit, you will be safe if you call spiral during the first fierce, and you throw a gernade after the 4th fierce or just jab-beam. Knives will finish hitting and you will be free to super-jump. __________________________________________________ _________ Dreamteam, "I was practicing gbs on training and I did it this way. Snapback, jump back HP(gb or hits), AHVB. I was hitting CPU with the ahvb 70% of the time9doesn’t matter if the HP was blocked or not). Do you think that’s a good execution ratio for tourney level? What’s yours gb percentage(at the same situation)? Do you know the ones from other top players? Thanks!" reply: No one pays attention really, I kind of fluctuate from week to week. Sometimes my GB timing is right on the mark, other times I just plain suck at it. It really depends on how much time I've had to warm up on the sticks at any given place. There have been many times that GBing consistently has gotten me placed in and of itself. Let me take what I just said back, my percentage varies from tournament to tournament. Also keep in mind that most characters can avoid the gaurd-break in such a way that they only eat one or half of one AHVB. __________________________________________________ _________ Posted by Jinmaster on 04:03:2001 05:54 PM: gamedata, "Fluffy or Jin, could any of you elaborate about the uses of Spiral’s blocked circle of swords into metamortph and into gb? I would like to know exactly how to do the blocked circle into metamorph(good times to do it and all the info you can provide me)? And I would like to know too exactly how to do that gb whne the opponent comes in, block a circle of knives, and then spiral tags cable in and the opponent can’t block it, so cable can do ahvbs for free. Thank you very much!" reply: Well, I don't use it too much becuase most players can screw with your timing and that would waste 3 levels, but what I have done successfully is throwing the cirlce(espcially in the corner) vs an incoming character so that threy block it as they appear(and XX meta). You have to time a J.fierce so that your grab them as they fall. Many characters can escape though, although many probably will not. =) __________________________________________________ _________ *Dp, "Jin, do you think Doom/BH are tournament material from your tourney experience? Besides the basic Photons/Call BH assist...Jumping Demons/call Doom assist what else do they have and do you think that they have a chance against spiral,Cable,Mag/Storm rushdown and "HIGH-LEVEL" play(Duc,Alex,Ricky,you etc.....) Why aren't there any tourney results with BH/Doom? When people use them what major mistakes do they do? Also what makes duc's "new" team (correct me if I'm wrong) of Spiral/Cable/Sent. so good?" reply: That's a lot of questions. Well, Doom/BH is very predictable and very easily countered. Cammy-assist will pressure Doom oon point almost to where he is useless, a commando assist would give both of them trouble. With the advent of wave-dashing, you can easily escape-photon trap/J.fierce traps as well as BH traps provided you know what you are doing and when to call your assists. Sice they need an AAA to keep Mag players and whatnot off of them, the only AAA's that burn meter through supers are Cable and Setinel. Unfortuantely, that means that Doom and BH do all their damage through chipping, and do most of their chipping through the use of meter. This means that as long as BH and doom are on the same team, everyone is not as effective as they could be with meter to spend. They rely too much on chip traps and relying on traps is not the way to go in this game anymore. The mistake people make is the assumption that the Doom/BH trap is really good, when its really just "ok" to players like me. As long as J.fierce can be AHVBed and Doom-AAA gets knocked out by invincible AAAs, this team won't be showing up anymore. Spiral/Cable/Setinel is a very good team becuase it doesn't have any harcore weaknesses. It's counters rely heavily on player skill and/or strider teams, which can both be dealt with by playing very solid. The downside to the team is that its success hinges highly on execution. Bad sticks are spiral's/Cable's enemey, but then again that applies to strider just as well. __________________________________________________ _________ K.I.C., "help me with doc doom please any traps combos what so ever. and tell me his strongest air combo " reply: J.fierce, jump back and fierce, call assists. Damage scaled combo is launch into straight SJ photon array. Otherwise, 1,2,3,4,5(doesn't hit) XX photon array is his typical combo. In the corner you can SJ 1,2,3,4, air dash down+toward and air-throw, then photon array for flash. Otherwise, make opponent block a lasting assist, then sj up, air dash up at peak of jump, shock x 3 on way down. If they wave dash do not throw any more shocks beyond the first. Watch for AAA assists. __________________________________________________ _________ Bruton, "Jinmaster: Okay, what I was doing before was doing Rogue's Down.J.RK(Divekick), S.LP, S.LK, S.MP, S.MK XX Super Rushing Punches(QCF+2P), EX to Anakaris's Royal Curse(RK, LP, down, LK, FP) EX to Jill's Tyrant Super(QCB+2K). The cancel to Anakaris so long as they're fairly tall and before Rogue launches them, and the cancel to Jill before the Sarcophagus drops. However, I was thinking about the Anakaris/Cyke-Beta infinite-(C.LK, C.FP-call Cyke here, SJ.LK, SJ.MK XX Curse(QCF+K)), and how Viscant said you can kill a whole team with it if you do it right(i.e. guardbreak or not when they jump in). Anakaris's Royal Curse super allows an OTG with C.LK after the Sarcophagus, so is it possible to set up the infinite by using Cyclops(after coffin, C.LK, C.FP-call Cyke, etc.) instead of Jill up above, and instead of doing a third super, you do the infinite instead? I think this would work, if you don't use an assist to set up Rogue's combo at the start." reply: Uh, yeah that sounds good. I mean, it's not like I've ever tried that before =) I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.... I don't know about the flying screen, might ask Loyd. Just saw the 1000 word limit.... Posted by Jinmaster on 04:03:2001 06:27 PM: Dem-Dem, "I use magneto B, Ironman B, Wolverine/W metal claws B. what are some strat's with wolverine for this team. combos into supers would be helpful since he loses power like a little girl." reply: I usually dash in with jab x 3, the second hit of the strong will set them up for a punch super. You could also call magneto as you first hit jab, and have his capture assist grab them after your 3-hit combo, and do whatever you want from there. I think you could do a helper combo with Iron-B, but I'd have to play around with it. Why wolvie J? __________________________________________________ _________ Captain Canada, "I had a big opportunity in a match today, but blew it. My opponent had backed my almost-dead Doom into the corner, and DHC switched out Guile for Cable, chipping away at Doom in the corner with the HVB. As the super was going on, I could only think of one thing: "Try an aerial rave after this." I launched him and tried for Doom's "Pink Shit" air combo, but blew the Photon Array motion at the end. He ended up killing me shortly after. I kicked myself after this, thinking that I could have landed Doom's Sphere Flame (or, as I like to call it, the Photon Cannon), and DHCed into the Captain Sword. I might have had the match with that... So, I got a couple quick questions about this: 1) Could the Flame have come out fast enough after the blocked HVB? How bad is the HVB's recovery time?" reply: I thought you had doom on point? Anyhow, if you did have commando on point, I would just kick super when his beam was done, you'd catch him from full screen. If he's close, I'd dash forward and do 1 of 4 things: C.fierce, fierce cooridor XX captain sword, C.fierce kick super, with no meter I would c.fierce, fierce flame, and if I wanted to take a risk, I would c.fierce, fierce flame XX captain sword. "2) How reliable is the Captain Sword? It seems like it only connects for good damage about half the time, and the other half, it hits them about three times and goes through them for almost nothing." reply: It depends on character and positioning. Most people just hope it does the damage it should. I don't have facts on the positioning, but I know some characters like BH are the right size to rarely not take the brunt of it. "3) About Doom's air combo: Can you start the Array just after the second LK hits, or will that not do decent enough damage? I'm trying to find the easiest way to land this without having to airdash (still haven't gotten that down yet)" reply: Just go 1,2,3,4, whiff the fierce(builds meter and helps position at the same time) and photon array. For max damage, I think you just lanch, SJ, position yourself quickly, and super. "Jinmaster, I know you're caught up in...stuff...so if anybody else could get this straight for me, that'd be great. Oh yeah. Jin, did you ever see my last post?" reply: Yes, and I responded that I am going to wait unil either after B5 or after the 31st to write anything hardcore, since there's no point yet as the game is still evolving to this day. It's really quite amazing. __________________________________________________ _________ Doombh, "Also, against Cable, you're going to want to make use of Strider's birds. If you press the button to call out doom, then call a bird before Doom appears and cancel to Oroborous, Cable can't AHVB you because he'd catch a bird in the face as soon as he left the ground. -Threepwood So how do I beat it with my cable/storm/cyc team(cable on point)? Thanks" reply: When you hear him hit his assist button just AHVB right there and wiggle it and the bird should go away. You have plenty of time, and if you call clops before you HAVB you should have nothing to worry about. Hell, you could just dash back, jab beam XX HVB. =P __________________________________________________ _________ Powerful, "Do you use snapbacks often? I only use it at combos. Are there situations when I should do snapbacks outside of combos? Which ones? I play Spiral, Storm and Cable. My opponents play all the top tiers. Thanks" reply: You should nearly always snap-back within a combo so you know what you are doing, but when you want to snap and know the snap will hit but a combo will not, just snap. Also, snaps come out faster then the moves the represent, I think, so spirals long-range snap can be used outside of a combo in that fashion. Snapbacks are very important and I use them whenever I really want to win. If you ever hit a helper and a main character with a snap, you get a free infinite with most characters. __________________________________________________ _________ luigi, "With Storm/cable/Cyc against BH/Commando teams, I prefer to call cable B instead of cyc after they call Bh or Commando because it keeps the assist away for more time. Is it the best tactic at this situation or should I stay calling cyc?" reply: Only when you know Cable will hit or that he will be safe, you don't want your meter-spender getting hurt after the first 15-20 seconds or so. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:03:2001 06:37 PM: battlefield, "On the vids, Duc’s cable always avoid being cornered by Valle’s sent. I play cable/aaa and I find easier to beat sent/bh if I’m in the corner(no crossups). Is this true at tourney level too, and Duc just played that way because the lack of an AAA? Or it’s really better to cable/whoever get out of the corner against sent/bh? Why? Any details would be great. Thanks" reply: I kind of think you want to put them in the corner, and I'm not sure which vid you are talking about. I could give a better assesment if you tell me which vid it is. Generally speaking, you don't want to SJ much but rather try to control the ground with Cable and catch sentinel when he swings, how far you should be kind of depends on assists involved. __________________________________________________ _________ zz, "I need all the details of how to fight my Storm/AAA against Commando assist. Thank you very much!" Just block when they call him, and air-dashing can be used to cross it. If you have an invincible-AAA, you may want to go for rushdown, although this can be difficult vs Cable/commando. Experience matters a lot here. __________________________________________________ _________ msf, "When magneto does an EM disruptor, cable can block and ahvb him. Butb when he does it very cose to the ground, the landing animation cancels most of the lag. Is it really safe from AHVB? I saw Valle doing it this way against Duc in a vid, and Duc couldn’t ahvb him(maybe that was just a mistake by pressure, that’s why I’m asking you)." reply: I forgot to test this when I had the chance, I think you can AHVB it but the window is smaller, but I still have to check. __________________________________________________ _________ tommyboy, "I’m doing this with my storm against Commando assist. I call Cyclops(which will make my opponent’s point blocks and take out commando if he’s coming), then immediately I sj, air dash up into fierce into typhoon. When I do the typhoon only my feet are on the screen. Until now, Commando assist hasn’t hitted me when I do this tactic right. And the typhoon protects my cyc. Do you think this can be(or already is) a tournament worthy tactic? Are there any flaws that people can exploit in my tactic? Thanks" reply: It's not too bad but you take a huge gamble every time you try to out-vertical that assist. I would rather call cyke, dash back, see if he calls an assist, and if he does, typhoon XX hailstorm. Or you could jab-strong-roundhouse chain them so he cannot call an assist. __________________________________________________ _________ Posted by CaptainCanada on 04:04:2001 12:45 AM: Thanks a lot for the help, Jinmaster. I wasn't clear on one of my questions, though. "Could the Flame have come out fast enough after the blocked HVB? How bad is the HVB's recovery time?" reply: I thought you had doom on point? I meant Doom's Sphere Flame super, not the Captain Fire...I should've worded this differently. Posted by *Dp on 04:04:2001 02:35 AM: Just wanted to say thanks, but I got some more questions.....who would you say is better iceman or Ironman? Also, what strats do you suggest for iceman and ironman that can be used at tourney level? About duc's "bidnezz" team of Spiral/Cable/Sentienl how does he deal with rushdown? Well as you know EC is going to B5, how is everyone preparing for Justin in MVC2? I want to ask a question about Ricky, but it might be too personal and I don't want anyone to be offended.......and I think you know what it is but by the same token it has nothing to do with him playing any games. thanks Posted by Bruton on 04:04:2001 02:48 AM: Fluffy: Yeah, I had that 10000 character problem with a post about that whole MM vs GWM thing(it's STILL going on =). When I hit back on my browser(Netscape, proxy) it didn't remove it though, and I shortened it. A good habit is if you type a really huge post, select it all and copy it. I think it works even if the program crashes. I never tend to do that though. -Bruton Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:04:2001 04:14 PM: Supposedly White from Japan posted his thoughts on the top tier. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=10589 Just curious to see what you think of it. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:04:2001 04:43 PM: Captain Canada, "Thanks a lot for the help, Jinmaster. I wasn't clear on one of my questions, though. "Could the Flame have come out fast enough after the blocked HVB? How bad is the HVB's recovery time?" reply: I thought you had doom on point? I meant Doom's Sphere Flame super, not the Captain Fire...I should've worded this differently." reply: I see. Well, you could dash forward and do it against a tall character like Cable(maybe), but why even try when you could do a launcher into photon shock super? Or if you want to be real simple, just jab-jab electric cage. __________________________________________________ _________ *Dp, "Just wanted to say thanks, but I got some more questions.....who would you say is better iceman or Ironman?" reply: Iron-man all the way, he can build meter extremely fast while pressuring the opponent and can set up his infinite off a launcher. He is better in the air than Iceman becuase of angled fierces and air-dashes, and smartbombs go through hailstorms. He's just a very good and balanced character in MvC2. "Also, what strats do you suggest for iceman and ironman that can be used at tourney level?" reply: Iron-man is a good battery, what I like to do is SJ.fierce, cancel to air dash up with fierce, cancel that aird-dash fierce into a smartbomb, 3 heavy moves that come out in like a second gives you hella meter. I use iceman as a counter to certain teams, such as Cable/Storm/BH where storm's hail and Cable's gernades are all that will chip iceman. I will use Iceman/Storm/AAA as my turtle/run-away team. Typically I use Psylocke to set up Iceman's launcher and I do a 1,2,3,4, super into a hailstorm and then I run with my lead, but other assists are helpful in the matchup as well. "About duc's "bidnezz" team of Spiral/Cable/Sentienl how does he deal with rushdown?" reply: I'm not sure if that's his true biz team, but most rushdown teams revolve around either magneto and strider and both can be beaten by using your Cable-AAA and your Setinel-C to stop them from dashing-in and/or crossing up. Sentinel is the main way to mess with magneto, becuase Sentinel drones stop cross-ups and stuff. I think that just playing solid with this team will naturally allow you to be on par with a rush-down player. The most important thinig is to not be stupid when calling your Cable assist, there are very few times you actually would want to risk sticking him out there. It's also important to remember that Spiral has an advantage over almost all rushdown characters once she has knives and she gets the opponent off of her. "Well as you know EC is going to B5, how is everyone preparing for Justin in MVC2?" reply: I think his main team is Mag/Cable/Cammy? I think we have played Magneto to death in CA, like, every possible throw setup and rushdown pattern has been like exposed. No one panics unless it's a very good Magneto and even then we are used to dealing with it. Justin's team is good and all but I don't think it needs to be prepared for becuase Mag/Cammy and Cable/Cammy has been done to death already. But just so you know, a few CA peeps will be going to ECC6, so stay tuned on new opinions. =) What I like most about Justins team is how solid it is overall, if Mag fails he still has a full cable and that annoying cammy assist. "I want to ask a question about Ricky, but it might be too personal and I don't want anyone to be offended.......and I think you know what it is but by the same token it has nothing to do with him playing any games." reply: I'm not sure if thats really anyone's business. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:04:2001 04:55 PM: DarthSalamander, I think the Japanese haven't had as much time as the US in learning MvC2. I am curious about what a good Dhalsim would look like, but I am positive that they overrate Iron-Man and underrate Cable. They think Cable is that low becuase thhey think he cannot build his own meter. He may loose to a larger portion of the cast 1v1, but in MvC2 you rarely see 1v1 until the last 20-30 seconds of the game anyhow. I do not beleive that they understand how much Cable changes the game. He should be the measuring stick for what is good, and it doesn't seem that that is the case in Japan yet. I think they have Iron-man where he is due to Japanese play-style, and I think that after B5 the Japanese tiers will change tremendously. -Micah Posted by StiltMan on 04:04:2001 05:19 PM: Small comment I'd like to insert about Spiral/Cable/Sentinel versus rushdown teams: just remember, if people get past the usual knives crud against your Spiral, circle of knives (QCF + short) is your best best friend. If they get around the regular knives, it'll be by super jumping, which means that even if they bring an assist that can go through the circle (Ken or Commando being the two most likely suspects) they're not going to be able to call it. Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:04:2001 05:28 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster DarthSalamander, I think the Japanese haven't had as much time as the US in learning MvC2. I am curious about what a good Dhalsim would look like, but I am positive that they overrate Iron-Man and underrate Cable. They think Cable is that low becuase thhey think he cannot build his own meter. He may loose to a larger portion of the cast 1v1, but in MvC2 you rarely see 1v1 until the last 20-30 seconds of the game anyhow. I do not beleive that they understand how much Cable changes the game. He should be the measuring stick for what is good, and it doesn't seem that that is the case in Japan yet. I think they have Iron-man where he is due to Japanese play-style, and I think that after B5 the Japanese tiers will change tremendously. -Micah Cool beans. Nice avatar by the way, Jin rocks. White did mention one team I thought sounded good Spiral/Sent/Capcom, or do you think BH would benefit the team on a general basis. I would think the CapCom variation would certainly be stronger against rushdown and BH teams at the least. Edit: Holy crap I just noticed White has Cyclops before Mags. What do they smoke over there? Second Edit: On your comment on how much Cbale changes the gam... I know what you are talking about, but still, could you explain it more? How he affects the game and such. I like to hear your opinions and thoughts on it. Posted by StiltMan on 04:04:2001 06:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander White did mention one team I thought sounded good Spiral/Sent/Capcom, or do you think BH would benefit the team on a general basis. I would think the CapCom variation would certainly be stronger against rushdown and BH teams at the least. I think CapCom would work all right for Spiral, but I think BH works better for both Spiral and Sentinel. quote: Edit: Holy crap I just noticed White has Cyclops before Mags. What do they smoke over there? Well, this, together with the claim that Iron Man is #2... but the one that really gets me is where he's saying that Sentinel can trap better with Spiral than he can with BH. And while it's true that Sentinel can chip a bit better with blocked HSFs if he's mixing in Spiral's knives, that's about the only lockdown situation where Spiral helps him more than BH does, and it requires meter to do it in. BH is just so much better for Sentinel overall that I really wonder what White's thinking there. quote: Second Edit: On your comment on how much Cbale changes the gam... I know what you are talking about, but still, could you explain it more? How he affects the game and such. I like to hear your opinions and thoughts on it. Well, I'm not Micah, but here's my take... Ask yourself a fairly honest and blunt question here. When you're evaluating the worth of a team you think you might want to use in a tournament, what's the one question that always comes up early, at least subconsciously, in your thought process? You got it: "How well is this idea going to work on Cable?" It's pretty much a necessary question to ask. Cable is basically MvC2's answer to the Wolverines of old... he's very, very easy to use, he's all but invincible at an intermediate level of play, and even at the top echelons of the game he's still a force to be reckoned with. You still will find people on IRC in many parts of the country who don't seriously believe that Cable isn't the best character in the game. And no matter what level you play at, if you're up against anyone but hopeless scrubs in a tournament, if you don't have a game plan for Cables you're just plain not going to win. He's simply that prevalent in this country. All he needs is a few assists to protect him from rushdown, and the amount of effort it takes to beat him is a lot more than what he needs to beat you. Now, then... this last sentence, unless I miss my guess, is basically the entire reason why he's still not really catching on in Japan. They still play this game largely assist-free. I haven't seen the videos from last November's tournaments, but my understanding is that they used practically no assists in the entire time. I suspect that their knowledge of how to use the system is still fairly rudimentary, and this hurts their respect for Cable a lot. I mean, take a look at White's list. He's got Morrigan right behind Cable. Now, you and I know that there's something very seriously wrong with that. Even if the Japanese are regularly able to pull off those 80+% combos that you see in demo videos, you and I know she's just not going to have a whole lot of opportunities to land them. Why not? Because she's going to get levelled by AAAs before she gets a chance. And that, together with Cable's low esteem over there, both point to a rather gaping lack of awareness of them. All IMHO, of course. But I suspect that MvC2 at B5 is going to look much the same as it did in Tokyo... whenever the Japanese get a chance to land a combo, they're going to put on quite a show, and they'll get nowhere near enough of those chances that they'll actually be able to win with them. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:04:2001 07:07 PM: Stilt Man, True. Your opinions seem much more clear now than they used to be on ALT.games. How has tournament play affected your thoughts on gaming in general? __________________________________________________ _________ Darth, Even back in my ALT.sf days where MvC2 was very new, it was pretty much accepted that Cable is the measuring stick for wether or not your team is good. Viscant put it best when he said that most tournament play in MvC2 revolves around packing your Cable. Who and what do you surround him with? Etc. My take on it is that basically, top tier characters are top tier characters becuase they demand that you use counters to defeat them. How much more this is so when fighting Cable, where the normal things you would do as part of the game engine simply require the utmost scrutiny. I think that the argument that Cable needs meter to be good is false. He has specific tools that give most if not all characters a hard time. Look at the fierce gun and cancel options you have off of it: 1)VB 2)HVB 3)Scimitar 4)Scimitar-AHVB *5)Crackdown *6)Crackdown-HVB 7)Scimitar-AHVB-DHC *un-tested but works as far as I know The fierce gun allows you to use any medium-speed projectile assist while being able to cover it. Everyone, including storm can be caught by a round of whatver projectile and an unmashed fierce-beam(except cable). The chip damage that Cable can dash out given a few rotations is very high considering that Cable is supposed to be weak in that area. There are only 4 characters in the game that I know of that make calling assists extremely risky: Cable, Sentinel, Storm, and Magneto. Now take the fact that you can never screw up vs Cable in his AHVB range, put storm on his team, and now you cannot make any major mistakes anywhere on the screen at any time becuase you loose 50%+ no matter what character you have, and all it costs the Cable team is 2 meters and storm on point. Cable may very well loose to half of the cast 1v1, but in MvC2 he will always have meter and he will never be alone, becuase other characers in the game are there to make up for where he is weak. Even at the most basic level, everyone can use cable somewhat effectively by mastering one motion. I forgot what the Japanese teams were at the invaitational, but they did not all have Cable-based teams or battery principles that really stuck out. I would have thought they all had at least mastered Cable, just becuase you can get lucky and win if you know what Cable is for. I almost think Cable was put in by capcom so you can't call assists all day, and if you have ever tried playing with non-high tier characters the game comes down to Ironman and stupid turtle-battles. Thank god for the top tier. -Micah Posted by Jinmaster on 04:04:2001 08:34 PM: About the non-top tier What happens when I have peeps over my house when we ban the top tier, including cyclops, is: Iron-man Juggernaut Commando Omega-red Mega-man Cammy Psylocke These are the only characters you see a lot of that win quite a bit without the top tier. -Micah Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:04:2001 10:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Cool beans. Nice avatar by the way, Jin rocks. White did mention one team I thought sounded good Spiral/Sent/Capcom, or do you think BH would benefit the team on a general basis. I would think the CapCom variation would certainly be stronger against rushdown and BH teams at the least. Did you happen to notice that two of the best Sentinel killers aren't even ranked in the top 5 and Sentinel is #1? The tiers listed are still opinion though, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. I believe the Sent, IM, Spiral, Strider and BH are probably all generally accepted as being good over there based on his descriptions of why they are there. It seemed his explanations afterward that were more or less personal choices. quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Edit: Holy crap I just noticed White has Cyclops before Mags. What do they smoke over there? He also ranked Dhalsim above Storm. If you read, I'm still awaiting a response as to the types of teams they're using with Sim and Storm. My suspicion as to why Storm is so low is based on the fact that they haven't discovered Cable/Storm or Magneto/Storm yet. I also hear they think that Dhalsim rapes Storm, which is a fairy true assessment, although it's hardly ever that you will fight a Dhalsim with Storm. If Sim starts, you just don't start Storm. If he doesn't, he will more than likely have problems getting in during the fight. That is what snapbacks were put in the game to do. quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Second Edit: On your comment on how much Cbale changes the gam... I know what you are talking about, but still, could you explain it more? How he affects the game and such. I like to hear your opinions and thoughts on it. If you take Cable out of the game, Sentinel becomes #1 easily. Although possibly Mags. IMO, the only reason he's not #1 in the States is cuz of the prominence of Cable. Cable flat out stops all of the crazy traps Sent can do with one move, and on top of that he can kill in one opportunity. Magneto doesn't have answers to Sent traps other than trying to out-manouvre him (which is possible) and he does have the "one hit will probably lead to death" combos. It still seems to me that Mags has to work too hard to get in and Sent doesn't have to work nearly as hard to keep him out. Without Cable, even the match with Strider/Doom becomes better. Just sub in a good AAA that beats Strider/Doom, like cammy, ken, cyke, psylocke, etc. and you have a pretty good shot. Sim: In my own experience with Sim, he looses to commando AAA and of all things Iron Man AAA. There are also ways to get around the runaway Sim tactics (mostly just by killing the helpers) and you also have options with other characters, but mainly Cyke since he's so widely used here. Sim has some interesting strats as he plays a lot like a very unorthodoxed Strider, hitting people with C.jab -> C.Strong -> C.Fierce while calling a helper (like Sent) and teleporting to cover it as it also covers you. Sim builds meter pretty well, has runaway if you have no answer to it, but lacks any kind of damage capability. His anti-air super is horrible, as it doesn't combo well and doesn't snatch anything at all out of the air. His Yoga Inferno has way to much startup and recovery to be useful. The one thing he has going for his is wave dashing and using his command throw. If you don't know, you can do any of those command throws (QCB+Fierce) while dashing. Cyke's DB+Roundhouse can also be done the same way. You can literally run up and throw someone without a tick or anything. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:04:2001 11:44 PM: Venom Infinite? Does Venom has an infinite? Is it like: Launch/\jump straight up Rk, falling Rk, Jump Rk, Jump Rk... Would that work? Posted by StiltMan on 04:04:2001 11:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster Stilt Man, True. Your opinions seem much more clear now than they used to be on ALT.games. How has tournament play affected your thoughts on gaming in general? Well, basically, I've simply put a lot more thought into MvC2 than I have in pretty much any arcade game since pretty much every SF2 machine in the state of Oregon was converted into COTA in early 1995. I was a pretty avid SF2 player in college. I never actually entered any tournaments, but that was only because I wasn't aware of any being promoted in my area. If there had been, I'd have been all over it. The earlier vs. games were the first fighting games I played much at all, though I didn't really study them like I do with MvC2. If you consider all the expert match video that is available for download now (which wasn't when I was in college at all), it's fair to say that I've never studied any game to the degree that I have studied MvC2. Basically, there were three events that catalyzed MvC2 play in the NW from the mall scrubs we were then to the serious players we are now. 1. B4. I didn't go, but Jackson Chen and Brian Jiang (aka the other two of the "big three" here in the Portland area) did. They brought back a number of tactics that we just hadn't really seen before then -- Jackson eventually adopted Spiral/Cable/Storm as his core team based on what he'd seen from Duc, and Brian went to Strider/Cable/Doom for quite a while, both pretty much as a direct result of what they saw at B4. I was personally forced to adapt my own gaming to this -- I was already moving in that direction and away from my ancient Rogue/Doom/Cammy squad before then, but the first tournament here in Portland last June basically sealed that. I settled on Sentinel/Doom/Cammy at about that time, which lasted about until... 2. My trip to Sacramento. Contrary to the wide reports on-line, I really did do fairly well against them, largely because of the fact that I was pretty much the first Cammy-A believer in the country, the Sac peeps were very dependent on Sentinel (at least at that time), and they hadn't really considered what Cammy-A does to him before I came along. The only person who really gave me more than I could handle on that trip was DocBom, that was pretty much entirely because he was airdashing up with Doom on photon patterns, out of Cammy's reach, and by the time I'd kill Doom, he'd have a glitched Jug and a lead, I'd have to rush him down to catch up, and that wasn't going to happen without eating a few 80% damage headcrushes. I was pretty one-dimensional on Sentinel/Doom/Cammy as far as serious play went at that time, so there wasn't much I was going to do here. However, the part that really got my attention was their Sentinel/BH trapping. It wasn't anything particularly great by today's standards... all they were doing was repeated fierce/drones with BH sprinkled into the middle, interrupted by the occasional, very haphazard flying. On Thursday, when I was playing sharp enough to pick out the holes in it, this wasn't anything I couldn't handle. On the infamous Friday when I did my best to kill myself with kidney failure, it was. Regardless of whether I could handle it, it was something I hadn't really seen before, though I pretty quickly grasped the obvious. I pretty quickly swapped Cammy off my "A team" and went from one-dimensional Sentinel/Doom/Cammy to one-dimensional Sentinel/Doom/BH, where I stayed until the fall. And in the midst of this, we had... 3. The "Portland big three" going to the first Southcenter tournaments in Seattle Jackson Chen, Brian Jiang, and myself attended our first Southcenter tournament on September 9th. Jackson won, Trinh Nguyen managed to beat Brian, and Brian beat me, leaving those four first through fourth. Brian had adopted the Sentinel/BH tactics I brought back from Sac at around late August out of frustration with getting his Strider teams torn up by them, and in retrospect I now believe that it was probably him who tipped off Rattana to it, thus explaining why Rattana was already playing Sentinel/Cable/BH well enough by this time to be able to beat me with it. However, no one in Seattle had ever seen Cable's guard crush before (I can still remember the wide-eyed look on Rat's face when we explained it to them), there were a number of assists they weren't familiar with (I had some troubles with a Sentinel/Doom/BH mirror match in the first round of this tournament and wound up beating the guy by swapping in Ken for BH and rushing him down... no one in Seattle was aware that Ken's AAA was invulnerable all the way up), and I don't think anyone up there had seen a competent Spiral before Jackson was tearing everyone in the NW a new one with Spiral/Cable/Storm (which, again in retrospect, I'm sure he started playing in order to beat the Sentinel/BH tactics that Brian and I were using). This first tournament wasn't particularly noteworthy, except that it was the first time all of the Seattle players and all of the Portland players really got together. The Seattle peeps started holding regular tournaments, they started getting better for it. Although no one but Rattana really passed Portland's "big three" by altogether until about January, they were learning from us, until eventually they got good enough about then that they passed us by and started learning from each other. Now, if you make a top ten list of west coast players, it's been proven that you do, in fact, have to look to Seattle to find at least one of them. Don't agree? A roll call of players hailing outside SoCal who've placed top three at SHGL in the last six months, please. Ricky... Rattana... bzzzzt, time's up. (And good grief, he even did it playing that Iceman of his that took such widespread scorn... and he beat Tone and Nyte head to head along the way...) It might be that this last Saturday's tournament at SHGL will eventually be marked as a fourth major catalyst. It's too early to tell... I'll know more after Seattle's tournament on 4/14. But I think that people will be paying a lot more attention to Southcenter's tournaments now that Rattana's proven that he's for real. (On a side note, I just hope that now that I finally feel like I've kicked my own slump lately, I won't wind up just getting frustrated all over again because they bring all sorts of crud back from SHGL now... that'd suck.) This is probably a much more verbose answer than you wanted, but there's a lot of history behind how tournament play has changed my thought process on the game. SRK has also been a major influence, but that's ultimately just more studying I've done... these were the things that really changed how I've played the game. And yeah, now that I'm playing it that much more seriously than I did a year ago, my opinions on it are probably going to be clearer because I just know more now. Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:05:2001 04:45 AM: Thanks for the reply on the Cable question. I did realize the fact he is kind of a testing standard for a good team and the more obvious parts, but I still wanted to hear what you guys think. Posted by Psylocke on 04:05:2001 06:07 AM: a few questions jinmaster, 1) i use Mags/Psy/ and cammy or storm and i wanted to know who should i start out with and what assists would be best for each of em... 2) is this a good team to use against a team that locks you down??? 3) Can this team do a considerable amount of damage to a doom/bh/cable team??? thanks jinmaster Posted by Bruton on 04:05:2001 02:42 PM: Fluffy: You heard the man, does the Rogue EX->Anakaris Infinite work? (Don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds cool =) Dhalsim can be VERY annoying. When I was over in SVGL, I fought an annoying Dhalsim. Dhalsim also has some pretty big combos, I have a video of one against Zangief. He dashes in after a fireball, launches him, then I think he hits him, air dashes with a drill, and starts this huge combo where I think he lands, jumps up again for a combo, relaunches more comboing, he gets pushed right away but still hits with his long limbs, goes back in, and ends up doing a Yoga Strike(with little chance of escape for most it seems), which does about 80%. Ahhh, the japanese. His dash and flight are actually very good(dash goes completely over sweeps, I think), but not many people can actually use him(what's the biggest non-super Dhalsim combo you've done?). I don't know if that's how they commonly play him, though. My Dhalsim is just crossups with top-screen runaway if they have nothing which goes up there, and some mild traps. Posted by doombh on 04:05:2001 02:45 PM: There is a topic by natexgrey here arguing about that cable's special grab move, if it couldn't be useful to cancel the HPs animation early and make cable safer than a grenade at the ned. What do you think about it? And there's another one on gaming asking Viscant what happened to cyc(I would like to know too). Since Duc changed cyc for sent a nd ricky changed cyc for psy seems that cyc is never placing at any tourneys anymore. do you think he lost his place to commando and psy as torunament assists? Posted by doombh on 04:05:2001 03:34 PM: to stiltman: Are you still planning to put that video analysis that you do on some thread. This will be really cool Posted by StiltMan on 04:05:2001 03:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by doombh to stiltman: Are you still planning to put that video analysis that you do on some thread. This will be really cool All right, all right... I'll get it going here... Posted by *Dp on 04:06:2001 02:41 AM: If the spiral WOS is done correctly, in DC training mode with the dummy set to SJ/ALL Gaurd should it be able to jump out? Posted by batsu13 on 04:06:2001 03:39 AM: yo jin masta couple of questions: ok, you know that mag air combo hyper gav XX temp. after the first one, what is the best way to keep it going. i guess my brain is programmed to do lp, lk, huper grav XX temp, but the lk, sends them down. why? what is the best way to link all 3ahvb. im guessing the first one is tiger knee motion, the second is a regular jump and so is the third. for some reason, they almost never link up. gaurd break. when is the best time to shoot the gun with cable. thanks. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:06:2001 08:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp If the spiral WOS is done correctly, in DC training mode with the dummy set to SJ/ALL Gaurd should it be able to jump out? Yes. WOS is not perfect. There is a new variat of the Spiral trap with Sentinel Ground assist now, but that too has it's flaw. I don't think there is a perfect trap that cannot be escaped. Some traps come close, but all traps have a window that you can get out of. WOS is very difficult for larger characters to get out of though. Posted by *Dp on 04:06:2001 09:22 AM: "There is a new variat of the Spiral trap with Sentinel Ground assist" Mind sharing it =). I'm guessing it's 3 swords on your way down with the second sword above your opponent 3 swords jumping up with the 5th sword above your opponent call sent. assit repeat. Also do you hold the joystick up or do you/'top players' manually make spiral jump each time? meaning just pressing up on the joystick instead of holding it. Thanks Posted by loki on 04:06:2001 12:41 PM: i need some help with my team Jinmaster, here are my questions. i use Ruby, Doom, BH, and i need help setting up traps. I got the Doom Blackeart trap down, but are there any other Doom, or BH traps that include Ruby? Are there any BH traps that have a Rushdown character in them? If so, who and how do i set it up? Should i substitute Ruby for a better character, say Strider so i can us the Strider/Doom trap? -thanks for the help- Posted by StiltMan on 04:06:2001 05:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp "There is a new variat of the Spiral trap with Sentinel Ground assist" Mind sharing it =). I'm guessing it's 3 swords on your way down with the second sword above your opponent 3 swords jumping up with the 5th sword above your opponent call sent. assit repeat. No, it's a bit different. I've heard of two versions, either of which is probably a fairly stiff trap: 1) Dash forward fierce, throw knives, call Sentinel, reload knives as they're blocking the drones, repeat. 2) Same as above, only throwing the knives first and dashing in after them while calling Sentinel. I'm not a huge Spiral player myself, so I couldn't tell you which of these is the more effective version. Posted by Bruton on 04:06:2001 05:59 PM: Two things... I tried the Rogue EX to Anakaris infinite, it works. You can attack somebody after an undizzy before they hit the ground. They recover in midair and can attack. Did it multiple times in the arcade, and I KNEW that before, because I used to make them block a War Destroyer with WM and EX for more chip. The only thing I don't know is what status they come out of it. It's high enough to be SJ, but this is a special thing, so it might be normal jump status and guard-breakable. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:06:2001 06:59 PM: I'll try to get through this fast... Psylocke, "a few questions jinmaster, 1) i use Mags/Psy/ and cammy or storm and i wanted to know who should i start out with and what assists would be best for each of em..." reply: Mag-A or Mag-B/Storm-A/Psylocke-A Start magento, use storm DHC to hail to stop people from mashing out from tempest. Use Psy to set up launcher and OTG setups. "2) is this a good team to use against a team that locks you down???" reply: It can espcae every trap that I know of, I think any team with a normal AAA other than BH and doom and get out of any trap. "3) Can this team do a considerable amount of damage to a doom/bh/cable team??? thanks jinmaster" reply: It can do a considerable amount of damage to any team, provided you're good. =) Just know that you have a hard fight vs Cable/AAA. __________________________________________________ _________ Doombh, "There is a topic by natexgrey here arguing about that cable's special grab move, if it couldn't be useful to cancel the HPs animation early and make cable safer than a grenade at the ned. What do you think about it?" reply: I don't know if it's safe, becuase I have never done that before. What I can tell you is that when you are doing standing FP's with Cable you should call an assist that makes the other guy block so you don't have to worry about anything, you just SJ or whatever and throw a gernade. Even if I had no assists to call, and no meter to scimitar-AHVB, I think I'd try a crackdown over a special-grab any day. "And there's another one on gaming asking Viscant what happened to cyc(I would like to know too). Since Duc changed cyc for sent a nd ricky changed cyc for psy seems that cyc is never placing at any tourneys anymore. do you think he lost his place to commando and psy as torunament assists?" reply: Well, in a way yes. Psylocke assist is like, twice as good as Cyclops assist, literally. The only thing is that Cyclops is a more verstaile character on point, and a lot of players are far more comfortable with him. In high-level play, it doesn't matter so much becuase if you are down to your last character you screwed up big. The only thing that makes Cyclops better than Psylocke as an assist is the spiral fight becuase clops shoots out pretty far and will eat more knives for you. Versatility on point as a primary assist feels meaningless sometimes, as Psyloke seems to rush people down a lot easier than Cyclops does, and she seems to be more likely to do damage to a lone cable than cyclops can. I like cyke so much becuase he can chip and spend meter pretty freely vs nearly everyone, but I'm working to switch to Psylocke on most of my teams now. __________________________________________________ _________ *Dp, "If the spiral WOS is done correctly, in DC training mode with the dummy set to SJ/ALL Gaurd should it be able to jump out?" Not if you do the Setinel assist trap with a grounded spiral-fierce trap, although you kind of should make the computer block the deep fierce on the ground and then pause it and set the comp to SJ. There is no window, you have to push at the proper time to jump out. If you are a big character and you have no AAA or no way to variable-switch, yer dead. I almost never WOS anymore, except vs cable. __________________________________________________ _________ Batsu13, "yo jin masta couple of questions: ok, you know that mag air combo hyper gav XX temp. after the first one, what is the best way to keep it going. i guess my brain is programmed to do lp, lk, hyper grav XX temp, but the lk, sends them down. why?" reply: I'm not sure what the best way is, since I never have taken the time to make my Magneto good, but what I try to do personally is lk x 2, grav, tempest. But really, don't waste your time, just hailstrom with storm for more damage. "what is the best way to link all 3ahvb. im guessing the first one is tiger knee motion, the second is a regular jump and so is the third. for some reason, they almost never link up." reply: 2 tiger-knees, both close to the ground as possible, then jump normal. "gaurd break. when is the best time to shoot the gun with cable. " reply: I don't count seconds, I just time the bullet nice and early, and I wait a second and ahvb. I do not have a magic time that catches everyone, I probably should ask Ricky next time I talk to him. =) __________________________________________________ _________ That's all I have time for for now. Just so you guys are kept up on current events, I'm fairly sure I was wrong about Spiral/Cable/Sent having an advantage over Cable/Storm/AAA, I think Cable/Storm has the advantage now. Posted by Tuff Daddy on 04:06:2001 07:13 PM: JinMaster....??? Doom-B/Sent-G/Cable-B in that order. I've watched the nyte vs valle videos and this team seems to be able to beat most. However it seems like it lacks a good trap and rushdown stopping power. Does Sent belong in this team? Is anyone else using this team? if so post some useful traps/suggestions. Thanks in advance. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:06:2001 08:29 PM: loki, "Jinmaster, here are my questions. i use Ruby, Doom, BH, and i need help setting up traps. I got the Doom Blackeart trap down, but are there any other Doom, or BH traps that include Ruby?" reply: You can use Ruby with Doom on point by doing a j.fierce(call ruby pillar assist), SJ, photon shcoks X 2, rinse, repeat. As Ruby, you can do some basic patterns like C.roundhouse(call BH), ghost, C.roundhouse, pillar, dash forward S.fierce, C.roundhouse(call Doom), pillar, etc. "Are there any BH traps that have a Rushdown character in them? If so, who and how do i set it up?" reply: Same as BH/clops-B, you Sj up and throw a roundhouse, air dash forward, come down behind them with short-forward, land and short(callruby)-forward, SJ roundhouse, air dash foward......etc When you want to burn meter do an inferno XX HOD for more chip, although you loose momentum for doing so. Usually, you would want to use Doom assist instead of Ruby for all of BH's option traps. "Should i substitute Ruby for a better character, say Strider so i can us the Strider/Doom trap? -thanks for the help-" reply: Yes? Ruby needs Doom to deal damage for her while she makes people block her stuff and her crossups, and while Viscant likes to put Storm after her for the instant DHC to hail and whatnot, I kind of think you could accomplish the same task with Cable-AAA. Ruby batteries very well, and against some teams I would think about giving up doom for BH, since that would help you more vs Spiral teams anyway and also goes well with Cable. __________________________________________________ _________ Tuff Daddy, "JinMaster....??? Doom-B/Sent-G/Cable-B in that order. I've watched the nyte vs valle videos and this team seems to be able to beat most. However it seems like it lacks a good trap and rushdown stopping power. Does Sent belong in this team? Is anyone else using this team? if so post some useful traps/suggestions. Thanks in advance." reply: I don't think that team is more useful than a standard Sent/Cable/BH team or anything. All 3 characters really get in each others way, but that team should do exceptionally well against Spiral. Er, it has a very good shot anyhow. I can't tell you what to do with this team in every common situation a tournament player will find themself in, that would take too long. Give me specifics and I'll give you my opinion. Posted by Tuff Daddy on 04:06:2001 08:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy JinMaster....??? Doom-B/Sent-G/Cable-B in that order. I've watched the nyte vs valle videos and this team seems to be able to beat most. However it seems like it lacks a good trap and rushdown stopping power. Does Sent belong in this team? Is anyone else using this team? if so post some useful traps/suggestions. Thanks in advance. Some specifics from my previous post: I was looking for some strategy/traps against a good Spiral-A/Cable-B/Sent-G team. Spiral players can teleport through a Cable AAA assist and start the WOS Sent trap no porblem. Do you think a better AAA would be viable against a good Spiral? or Strider w/ Doom for pinning Spiral down? (valle vs. doc 3o7) Thanks Posted by cheese_master on 04:06:2001 08:59 PM: Jinmaster.... I am about to join a tourny and its gonna be have developed several teams. I was wondering if you would be willing to tell me some basic things to look out for using each team. I am going to use most of these teams because I feel that having variety is important in a tournament setting where people are trying to figure your playing style as it goes along. Here are my teams that I intend on using: 1) Storm, Mag, Psylocke. 2) Storm, Blackheart, Sentinel. 3) Storm, Ironman (AAA), Sentinel. 4) Spiral, Sentinel, Blackheart. 5) Magneto, Sentinel, Blackheart. 6) Strider(Variety), Dr. Doom, Blackheart. 7) Cammy(AAA), Sentinel, Dr. Doom. 8) Blackheart, Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom. 9) Dr. Doom, Colossus (AAA), Sentinel. 10) Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom, Sentinel. Those are the main teams I probably going to use with maybe one or two variations. I am probably not going to use my Cable teams because I want to try something new and creative... but this is the first tourny I am gonna be playing in without good ole Cable... so I wanted to know what possible weaknesses these teams may have in your opinion. I know the weaknesses and strengths of some of them like... team #1, 4, and 6 (if you want go ahead and analyze them)... but the others definitely need review. Thanks for the help. Posted by StiltMan on 04:06:2001 09:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Jinmaster.... I am about to join a tourny and its gonna be have developed several teams. I was wondering if you would be willing to tell me some basic things to look out for using each team. Again, I'm not Micah, but maybe I can lend a hand here a bit. quote: 1) Storm, Mag, Psylocke. Watch out for Strider. The only char on this team that doesn't have an absolutely horrible matchup against him is Storm. quote: 2) Storm, Blackheart, Sentinel. This is a fairly solid team. If Storm gets hurt by somebody, the other two are going to have potential problems with Cable, though. Also has a potential problem against rushdown teams. quote: 3) Storm, Ironman (AAA), Sentinel. Another fairly solid team. However, Sentinel would much rather have Blackheart behind him than Iron Man. Is a little bit stronger against rushdown but if they bring a good AAA with them Iron Man won't help much. quote: 4) Spiral, Sentinel, Blackheart. Monster chipping team. Has horrific problems with rushdown and Cable if anyone but Spiral is on point, though. quote: 5) Magneto, Sentinel, Blackheart. Basically the same as above, with less chipping power. Putting a second trapper subbed for Mags or putting an AAA like Psylocke or the like for BH might make it a bit more solid. quote: 6) Strider(Variety), Dr. Doom, Blackheart. Not a bad team as long as people are spending all their time running from you. If people decide they're going to get in your face, though, this team can have problems. quote: 7) Cammy(AAA), Sentinel, Dr. Doom. Not a bad team at all, though you should start either Doom or Sentinel and put Cammy in back -- she should be used for her AAA as close-range control (and she's excellent for that purpose, possibly the best in the game) and she's easily the weakest point char on this team. quote: 8) Blackheart, Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom. 9) Dr. Doom, Colossus (AAA), Sentinel. 10) Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom, Sentinel. Can't really comment on these, I don't play much with Ruby or Colossus. Posted by angelassassin on 04:06:2001 11:36 PM: please help me i am about the semi-only Anakaris player in my area. i use Anakaris/Blackheart/Spiral or i switch spiral for cammy. i use a lot of coffin drops and i have the distance/psycho droping tactic down....but i need more ground offense. i almost never use idle hands burt i am trying to work on a semi infinite with him and spiral as an assist. my Anakaris has some chance against cable, sentinel, and doom. storms chip damage and the strier/doom trap give me problems. i also have a lot of problems against anyone who has Capcom or blackhearts AAA. How can i make my game better offensivly and defensivly? Posted by manny on 04:07:2001 01:06 AM: Hey Jinmaster (or stiltman) I'm fooling around with a IM/Psylocke Combination. I'm not quite sure who to stick infront? I'm thinking about Magneto, Cable, Cyclops, Doom, or maybe even Ken...what do you think? Also what are some good tactics for luring people into an IM infinite and what are some good Psylocke general strats? Thanks- Posted by Testament X on 04:07:2001 01:36 AM: Do you have any good strategys for Ruby Heart?I just start to play her again but i need more information for her.....I use Doom-B and i try to keep a good rushdown with the qcf+k-call assist-(j)fp-(c)lk-mk-rk-qcf+k-call assist....do you have more strategys for her?And how she should be played vs a good cable player? Posted by doombh on 04:07:2001 04:01 AM: originally posted by you(jinmaster) : “I am the only person I know who likes Doom with Spiral. Good to see someone else out there trying it out. I suggest staying on the ground, go knife, time delay, knife, call doom, knife-knife-knife, call knives, knife(doom ends), time delay, etc. You can also facilitate your Doom calls by dashing forward with fierce for the purpose of locking down completely with a 7th knife(the fierce). This results in a full-screen-anywhere lockdown that is jumpable but its difficult as all hell. When ytou have 5 meters, feel free to burn one on a speed-up super. Mash this: jab and doom, and call knives when they block doom. Keep using jab-jab to lock them down ala MvC1 wolvie. The key to it all is slower knife shots and good timing on the re-load. “ How to beat the strats above using, on point, cable, storm or spiral? And, as assists, Cyclops or sent? (this all means that I play cable/storm/cyc and spiral/cable/sent or cyc). Thank you very much Posted by doombh on 04:07:2001 04:10 AM: originally posted by White” First, Sentinel has to approach. Cable manages to keep Sentinel away with S.HP, SJ.HP, SJ.grenade, SJ.VB, AHVB and assists. First of all, Sentinel have to superjump. Cable's trap (S.HP> call Spiral-alpha> grenade, then repeat) is hard for Sentinel to superjump. If you succeed to superjump, Maybe Cable will shot SJ.HP and throw grenade or shot ViperBeam. Be careful not to loosen your guard. When Cable's bullet reach Sentinel, you should AG. then Cable begin to fall, but Sentinel stop in the air. As soon as Sentinel fall, you should fly and go up forward. If not Cable superjump back, Sentinel is safe and take the best position. So Cable will SJ back and aim to hit AHVB. You must expect the next Cable's move. When Cable SJ back, you should fly cancel. Then Cable is in the air, Sentinel is on the ground. And you run forward, you have done. When Cable is about to land, call CapCom and SJ.HK, you will take a best position. It is difficult to explain by the words. Many experiences and tight guard let you take best position. Second, what you should do when succeed to approach is keep the position. Basic paturn is call CapCom, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, fly cancel, land, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, call CapCom, fly cancel. This is quite annoying. After fly cancel, you sometimes should use C.LK to break Cable's guard, and connect to S.MK, RocketPunch, HSF. If some moves hit, you win. It is also difficult to explain. And really many experiences are required. If you have many HC meter, HSF> C.HP> call Spiral> RocketPunch> HSF, then repeat. The chip damage is about 50% with 5meter. Good luck! “ This was about sent/commando vs cable. Sdo how can I beat it using cable/aaa or cable/sent or spiral? Thanks again Posted by wm on 04:07:2001 04:14 AM: I would like to know more in depth strats of how to fight bh/sent/commando using spiral/cable/sent or cable/storm/aaa. Last time you answered you said to use the wall of swords and safe switch into cable. And you said that if I need more info was just ask, so... I think now that bh/sent/commando is winning tourneys I will need extra strats to fight it. Thanks. Posted by DOA362 on 04:07:2001 04:52 AM: Jinmaster. You said that you only do the WOS on Cable usually. My question is why? I tend to do this because I know that the wall is there if needed but I like to expand on my actually fighting skills with Spiral. Also do you find it better to let spiral die or to use the safe switch. I know that having more characters means more life and a better chance at winning at time out but, if you switch her to cable ( I'm using the spiral,cable,sent team as an ex.) you can't DHC to sent if you mess up with cable or if you just need to get him out. Just wondering about your oppinion. Posted by bbh on 04:07:2001 04:55 AM: What’s the right time to call storm on the fiercex4, grenade, cable/storm trap? Why? Posted by powermachine on 04:07:2001 05:07 AM: When would you suggest the use of cable’s A or C assist instead of B? Posted by Testament X on 04:09:2001 04:26 AM: What is the best way to play vs cable using Anakaris?I use this team: Anakaris-B/Cyc-B/Mag-A or Doom-B.My oponents use: Cable-A/Capcom-B/Jill or Mag / or Cable-B/Doom-B/Storm-A.Any strats for Anakaris also? Posted by DeathFromAbove on 04:09:2001 10:53 AM: Re: please help me Hi Jinmaster, Thanx for the help you've provided in the past. May I ask a question about Dhalsim? Do you know of any good patterns of airdashing/teleporting/drillkicking, to utilize for cross-up patterns while calling assists and playing his runaway game? I seem to end up on the wrong side, unable to protect my helpers, a bit too often. Thanx in advance. Also, hopefully you won't be offended if I try to answer someone's question? quote: Originally posted by angelassassin i am about the semi-only Anakaris player in my area. i use Anakaris/Blackheart/Spiral or i switch spiral for cammy. i use a lot of coffin drops and i have the distance/psycho droping tactic down....but i need more ground offense. i almost never use idle hands burt i am trying to work on a semi infinite with him and spiral as an assist. my Anakaris has some chance against cable, sentinel, and doom. storms chip damage and the strier/doom trap give me problems. i also have a lot of problems against anyone who has Capcom or blackhearts AAA. How can i make my game better offensivly and defensivly? Hi, I know I'm not a ranked player or anything, but I play lots of Anakaris and I think I can answer most of your questions. First, your team: this is a good team because of Spiral/Blackheart's dynamic, but it's not ideal for Anakaris. You need to decide whether you want to go with a Coffin Drop keep-away, or if your trying to set up for infinites. Blackheart can get you off the ground to coffin drop, but he will never get you in close enough for the infinite with Spiral. You can still get in close enough for the infinite with Cyke, using BH's assist, and judicious coffin drops, but you have to be much deeper for the Spiral version (yes, it works). Coffin-Drop Teams: (1)Anakaris/y-Storm/Capcom. My main concern with this team is to frustrate the opponent with coffin dropping, and kill his helpers with a Hyper-Coffin-Drop XX Hailstorm. (2)Anakaris/Sent/BH. Same deal. BH gets you off the ground easier, and DHC to HSF instead of Hailstorm. Watch out for rushdown stuff, though, since you don't have a true AAA. Infinite Based Teams: BH/Cyke/y-Anakaris. Really, BH is the focus of this team. Anakaris assist allows him to stall against people he couldn't otherwise. When Anakaris is in, he uses BH to get off the ground, does 1 coffin drop, pokes with SJ.HK, and follows that in to try for the infinite. Try not to whiff the C.Fierce, cuz you won't be able to protect Cyke well if you do. y-Spiral/b-Cable/Anakaris(throw). Typical Spiral/Cable stuff, except use Anakaris assist while sword trapping can be a real bitch. When you're ready for a change, you get to bring in Anakaris to try to infinite. Try to bait our their assist a few times before going for the score. Again, this is somewhat weak to rushdown. Ground Offense: This is NOT why you're playing Anakaris. Here's what he's got: (1)Bait out an assist and use Hyper Cobra Blow to mostly kill it. (2)Dash in and try to start an infinite. Try to play head games between these two options. The opponent usually will become intimidated in one direction or the other, and just turtle. Use your long ground chains, and finish with an assist to let you start the cycle again. (3)C.HK + BH assist, superjump. But you already knew this, right? (4)Use Idle Hands to throw your way out of projectile based traps. Vs. Storm: Huh? IMO, this is Anakaris best top-tier match-up. Maybe it's just cuz I team with BH. BH assist + jab coffin-drop stops runaway. The rest is pretty standard. Vs. Strider/Doom: Try to stay in the air. That way he'll have to waste his Orbs time trying to get you down. Maybe do Hyper-Coffin-Drop DHC in someone else. If you get caught in the trap, I have no advice for you. Vs. BH/Capcom Assists: Change your game slightly. When you SJ, drop only 1 coffin, and wait for the opponent. If you anticipate, you can air dash away from the assist and Hyper-Coffin-Drop XX Whatever it. Don't forget your SJ.HK as a poke. Uh...sorry for the too-long post, -DFA Posted by Beast of Fire on 04:09:2001 01:21 PM: Hey Jinmaster, I have some questions for you, so could you answer them for me, please? I have two teams that I'm trying to learn how to use currently: 1. Storm, Psylocke, Cable 2. Strider, Doom, Storm My problems with the first team are that I really am not sure of how to properly use Storm. The main reason I picked Psylocke is b/c her AAA is a good setup for Aerial Raves and AHVBs, and it stops Spiral from teleporting on top of my head. But I really need to know the proper way to use Storm. My problems with the second team are that while I've tried the Strider/Doom trap before, I'm not certain about the exact execution of it. Could you help me with this? Thanks in advance. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:09:2001 06:04 PM: Busy Well, I had a wonderful weekend with my girlfriend, and I'm kind of backed up at work, I will answer everyone's questions as soon as I can. Posted by Auto-Asphyxiation on 04:09:2001 07:14 PM: Sorry if you answered any of these questions already but im to lazy to sift through all the pages. Anyway 1. I cannot get the ironman AC to work. I get the jab-short-up+hp fine, but i can only get the jab-short of the next part. Whenever i hit up+hp it goes into some kick crap and im positive that im hitting the buttons right. And how do you do the Ironman Infinite its been driving me crazy trying to figure it out. 2. With magneto someone told me of the combo jab-short-jab, delay a secong, jab-short-jab-short-dash uptowards then continue comboing or add an hypertempest or what not. But i can rarely get it past the 6th or 7th hit(including one hit launch), They always fall or I dash right past them. Can someone please explain the timing you need for this to work? Or is there a better combo that has more hits/damage in it? thanks Posted by Testament X on 04:09:2001 08:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by Auto-Asphyxiation Sorry if you answered any of these questions already but im to lazy to sift through all the pages. Anyway 1. I cannot get the ironman AC to work. I get the jab-short-up+hp fine, but i can only get the jab-short of the next part. Whenever i hit up+hp it goes into some kick crap and im positive that im hitting the buttons right. And how do you do the Ironman Infinite its been driving me crazy trying to figure it out. 2. With magneto someone told me of the combo jab-short-jab, delay a secong, jab-short-jab-short-dash uptowards then continue comboing or add an hypertempest or what not. But i can rarely get it past the 6th or 7th hit(including one hit launch), They always fall or I dash right past them. Can someone please explain the timing you need for this to work? Or is there a better combo that has more hits/damage in it? thanks The easy way to do a Ironman infinite is: call psyAAA-(j)lp-mp-mk-u+fp try to do it slow you will find the right timing with time.There are other ways to setup the infinite but thats the popular way,you can also use Akuma. For the magneto combo after you launch the character hit lp-lk-mp a little slow but not fast at the same time,then when you hit lp-lk-mp-mk try to hit fast air dash u/f you can't stop,hit lp-lk-mp like the last time and lp-lk-mp-mk-hyper grav-Magnetic Tempest.I think you problem is that you are doing the lp-lk-mp-mk air dash lp-lk-mp too slow. sorry if i didn't explain very good(english is my second language). Posted by Monkey on 04:09:2001 09:23 PM: Hi Jin! Once again, I'm preparing for a tourney.. What should I do for practice? Just play alot of mad good people in the area? Or get all my combos down good?? Thanks. Posted by Overkill on 04:10:2001 12:19 AM: what is the main idea behind cable/doom/commando?? to me that team seems very weird Posted by Monkey on 04:10:2001 01:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by Overkill what is the main idea behind cable/doom/commando?? to me that team seems very weird Cable and Doom are for chipping. Doom as an anti air, and Cable vb/ahvb takes alot of chip.. And Commando is a good anti-air for rushdown, and in general. I guess. Posted by loki on 04:10:2001 03:17 PM: hey jinmaster i need some help whats the best way to play rushdown storm, and what are some good Dhalsim strategies??? thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:10:2001 07:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by DOA362 Jinmaster. You said that you only do the WOS on Cable usually. My question is why? I tend to do this because I know that the wall is there if needed but I like to expand on my actually fighting skills with Spiral. Also do you find it better to let spiral die or to use the safe switch. I know that having more characters means more life and a better chance at winning at time out but, if you switch her to cable ( I'm using the spiral,cable,sent team as an ex.) you can't DHC to sent if you mess up with cable or if you just need to get him out. Just wondering about your oppinion. WOS on Cable mostly because if you mess up the perfect trap, you will eat AHVB. If Cable knows how to get out, you will eat AHVB. If you do WOS, Cable can't AHVB. The best he can do it SJ out of it, and once he does, you still have an advantage. The other situation where I see WOS being a good option is against certain AAA, namely Captain Commando. You really don't want Commando breaking up the perfect trap cuz it usually hits both Spiral and Sentinel and gives your opponent a single moment of complete and utter control. If they get that moment, then you'll be left back at square one trying to get knives again. This is where Spiral is most vulnerable. As for needing to keep spiral alive, you definitely need to. With Spiral still alive, you can work cable/spiral chipping traps, you can always burn meter with AHVB while caling spiral for somewhere around 50% chip towards the end of the match, and you if Cable does die (assuming he took a lot of time off of the clock and you still have a lead) Spiral will come back in and her teleporting is a bitch to deal with close to the end of most matches. If she comes in with a lead and your opponent has no way to punish her teleporting, you will win. If you really need the DHC, play Spiral/Sent/Cable and safe switch into Cable. Your order will then be Cable/Sent/Spiral. I don't like this cuz if Cable does, you have Sent/spiral instead of Spiral/Sent. Also, if you know the matches are going to be close, you're going to want to try to kill whatever it is that your opponent has that will punish spiral while your cable is in. Cable should come in with close to 5 meters and have spiral and Sentinel assists available. If you could kill whatever they had that could be dangerous to your Spiral, no matter if Cable does or not, your Spiral will come in with a serious advantage. This game is all about playing your individual matchups as advantageously as possible. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:11:2001 01:27 AM: I haven't posted in this thread in a LOOONNG time, and its grown a lot. anyways i've determined the teams i'm most comftorable with, and i was wondering if you could tell me if they "mesh" together well. i know strider/doom/capcom is tourney-quality, but what about mags/psy/cable? i really don't like storm for some reason, so i replaced her with probably the most pivotal character in the game. anyways, the biggest problems with most cable teams is that he doesn't have a good anti air assist and since psy is useful to both chars (mag and cable), i thought this would an aite team. any problems besides spiral teleport hi-jinx? (since i don't think psy AA beats spiral like capcom AA?) Posted by powermachine on 04:11:2001 05:51 AM: I would like to know who has the advanatge and why on the matches below: sent/cable/bh vs spiral/cable/sent sent/cable/comm vs cable/storm/clops sent/cable/comm or bh vs spiral/storm/clops or sent And which good counters to the ones above(sent/cable/bh or comm, cable/storm/cyc and spiral/cable/sent)? Thanks a lot! Posted by Bruton on 04:11:2001 01:54 PM: I cannot get the ironman AC to work. I get the jab-short-up+hp fine, but i can only get the jab-short of the next part. Whenever i hit up+hp it goes into some kick crap and im positive that im hitting the buttons right. And how do you do the Ironman Infinite its been driving me crazy trying to figure it out. Auto-Asphyxiation: The Iron Man AC is actually pretty easy to do once you get it down... I guess the same can be said for most combos. I had some trouble with consistency at first, but then it sort of "clicked". Basically, launcher, SJ(LP, LK, MP, MK, U.FP), air dash up/forward(though I have seen forward and I think straight up), SJ.LK, SJ.U.FP XX flight, F.LP, F.LK, F.MP, F.U.FP XX Jab Unibeam. The way it "clicked" for me was that I started doing the LK/FP part after the dash, and then the same LK/FP after the flight. It's easy to get the feel for it if you get that far, and you can add in more hits later(e.g. the flying MP). To get more hits, you actually have to fly closer a bit after you turn it on. If they are too low in the initial bit of the combo, try slowing the initial hits right down. I can get the full thing on ServBot by doing that. The infinite is also fairly easy, in fact a LOT easier than the AC. Think of it how it actually is: it's a jump. By this, I mean if there's the four hits, which there is: J(LP, MP, MK, U.FP), you simply split them up into two... that is, two hits going up(LP, MP), and two hits going down(MK, U.FP). It's fairly hard to put a gap between LP and MP, fairly easy to put a gap between MP and MK, and sort of okay to put a gap after the MK. The timing is sort of double tap LP, then tap the next two in sequence. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:11:2001 09:16 PM: Tuff Daddy, "Some specifics from my previous post: I was looking for some strategy/traps against a good Spiral-A/Cable-B/Sent-G team. Spiral players can teleport through a Cable AAA assist and start the WOS Sent trap no porblem. Do you think a better AAA would be viable against a good Spiral? or Strider w/ Doom for pinning Spiral down? (valle vs. doc 3o7) Thanks" reply: You use your anti-air to #1 let yourself out of the trap and #2 pressure/hit spiral. You get out of the fierce/ground trap by pushing the first or last knife and then using your AAA to get out. You SJ up and throw gernades and fierces and storm-alpha assists at her so she cannot call knives safely, nor start a real trap. Most of the damage delt by Spiral should be given yo your AAA assist character. __________________________________________________ _________ Cheese_master, "Jinmaster.... I am about to join a tourny and its gonna be have developed several teams. I was wondering if you would be willing to tell me some basic things to look out for using each team. I am going to use most of these teams because I feel that having variety is important in a tournament setting where people are trying to figure your playing style as it goes along. Here are my teams that I intend on using:" "1) Storm, Mag, Psylocke." reply: Mag/storm/psylocke is at a disadvantage vs Cable/AAA teams. You will have to fine-tune your magento to deal 50-90% damage with or without meter anytime you connect a short. The only thing you need to look out for is how well the opponent uses their AAA and/or reacts to your movements. "2) Storm, Blackheart, Sentinel." reply: Setinel/Storm/BH is a good team becuase Spiral has a lot of trouble with Sent/BH cause she can barely find room to call knives, let alone throw them. Against Cable, start storm. "3) Storm, Ironman (AAA), Sentinel." reply: I'm not sure how this team fits together, Setinel assist would not be as useful as Doom assist or an Invincible AAA would be for this team. "4) Spiral, Sentinel, Blackheart." reply: That's a good team, provided your Sent/BH is top notch and you do some damage with spiral early. A good Cable/Storm player may give you trouble. "5) Magneto, Sentinel, Blackheart." reply: Kind of an odd team, I think that Mag needs Psylocke to do real damage and set up good throw options... "6) Strider(Variety), Dr. Doom, Blackheart." reply: Don't ever play that team unless you are just flat countering someone or something. The whole team requires meter to do its damage, with some exceptions. A ken, cammy, or other true invincible AAA will mess up your whole team. "7) Cammy(AAA), Sentinel, Dr. Doom." reply: Only if you start Doom, using your Setinel and Cammy AAA to facilitate his traps, when you land that AC combo with Doom, combo into HSF and do your thing. Cammy should always be played as a primary assist. "8) Blackheart, Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom." reply: Only if you start Ruby, although I think you need Cable to help you spend meter....Viscant says you need Doom assist for Ruby on point, but part of me feels that BH does it just as well but does less damage. You need Doom for people who always roll, yet BH helps you trap better. It's up to you. Ruby/Storm/Doom is the Viscant team BTW. "9) Dr. Doom, Colossus (AAA), Sentinel." reply: I feel that his(collosus) first assist is more useful, but thats just my opinion. I would not use Collosus in a tournament with any hope of beating anyone good. "10) Ruby Heart, Dr. Doom, Sentinel." reply: Maybe Ruby/Sent/BH? "Those are the main teams I probably going to use with maybe one or two variations. I am probably not going to use my Cable teams because I want to try something new and creative... but this is the first tourny I am gonna be playing in without good ole Cable... so I wanted to know what possible weaknesses these teams may have in your opinion. I know the weaknesses and strengths of some of them like... team #1, 4, and 6 (if you want go ahead and analyze them)... but the others definitely need review. Thanks for the help." reply: Done. __________________________________________________ _________ angelassassin, "i am about the semi-only Anakaris player in my area. i use Anakaris/Blackheart/Spiral or i switch spiral for cammy. i use a lot of coffin drops and i have the distance/psycho droping tactic down....but i need more ground offense. i almost never use idle hands burt i am trying to work on a semi infinite with him and spiral as an assist. my Anakaris has some chance against cable, sentinel, and doom. storms chip damage and the strier/doom trap give me problems. i also have a lot of problems against anyone who has Capcom or blackhearts AAA. How can i make my game better offensivly and defensivly?" reply: Well, you're asking someone with very little Anakaris experience. The only thing I've found him useful for is annoying spiral and raping Setinel/BH traps. If you want a stronger ground game, get used to his normals like c.roundhouse, S.roundhouse, back+forward fierce, and his normal jump moves. Against some characters, try calling a long/lasting assist while dropping coffins on the ground instead of at SJ height to keep some control and stop people from commandoing you. =P __________________________________________________ ________ more to come..... Posted by Jinmaster on 04:11:2001 10:28 PM: Manny, "Hey Jinmaster (or stiltman) I'm fooling around with a IM/Psylocke Combination. I'm not quite sure who to stick infront? I'm thinking about Magneto, Cable, Cyclops, Doom, or maybe even Ken...what do you think? Also what are some good tactics for luring people into an IM infinite and what are some good Psylocke general strats? Thanks-" reply: Iron-man/Cable/Psy or Ironman/Mag/Psy both work. You could put cable in front as well, although that would be wierd. You really don't lure people into an infinite, it's more like luring them into your Psylocke assist. You could also learn to meet people during their jump with your jab, or learn the air combos that lead to infinites. Psylocke does like, 4 things: 1)dashing s.fierce cancel into fireball 2)SJ up and stall and build meter and triple jump 3)Psy-blade kick special as AAA into butterfile 4)wave dash a lot to catch people who jump a lot and C.fierce them as a crossup, combo into ac butterflies. __________________________________________________ _________ Testament X, reply: This has been covered a few times in this thread, some of it is on the first page I think.... __________________________________________________ _________ Doombh, "How to beat the strats above using, on point, cable, storm or spiral? And, as assists, Cyclops or sent? (this all means that I play cable/storm/cyc and spiral/cable/sent or cyc). Thank you very much" reply: Well, you have to pushbblock one of my knives and call your AAA to eat something so you can jump out. This trap is not as good as the Sentinel one, so you can just push at a random time or just eat the doom rocks to escape. "originally posted by White” First, Sentinel has to approach. Cable manages to keep Sentinel away with S.HP, SJ.HP, SJ.grenade, SJ.VB, AHVB and assists. First of all, Sentinel have to superjump. Cable's trap (S.HP> call Spiral-alpha> grenade, then repeat) is hard for Sentinel to superjump. If you succeed to superjump, Maybe Cable will shot SJ.HP and throw grenade or shot ViperBeam. Be careful not to loosen your guard. When Cable's bullet reach Sentinel, you should AG. then Cable begin to fall, but Sentinel stop in the air. As soon as Sentinel fall, you should fly and go up forward. If not Cable superjump back, Sentinel is safe and take the best position. So Cable will SJ back and aim to hit AHVB. You must expect the next Cable's move. When Cable SJ back, you should fly cancel. Then Cable is in the air, Sentinel is on the ground. And you run forward, you have done. When Cable is about to land, call CapCom and SJ.HK, you will take a best position. It is difficult to explain by the words. Many experiences and tight guard let you take best position. - Second, what you should do when succeed to approach is keep the position. Basic paturn is call CapCom, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, fly cancel, land, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, call CapCom, fly cancel. This is quite annoying. After fly cancel, you sometimes should use C.LK to break Cable's guard, and connect to S.MK, RocketPunch, HSF. If some moves hit, you win. It is also difficult to explain. And really many experiences are required. If you have many HC meter, HSF> C.HP> call Spiral> RocketPunch> HSF, then repeat. The chip damage is about 50% with 5meter. Good luck! - This was about sent/commando vs cable. Sdo how can I beat it using cable/aaa or cable/sent or spiral? Thanks again" reply: It's nothing new. Pick Psylocke as your AAA and see what happens when Sent tries to stomp on you, just get that AHVB ready, or put cammy-AAA on your team. Any limb touches psylocke assist and it's Sent's ass. The whole game Sentinel has to Rush cable down or try some full-screen stuff, and Cable has the advantage as long as he has a far-zoning assist and a good AAA. __________________________________________________ _________ wm, "I would like to know more in depth strats of how to fight bh/sent/commando using spiral/cable/sent or cable/storm/aaa. Last time you answered you said to use the wall of swords and safe switch into cable. And you said that if I need more info was just ask, so... I think now that bh/sent/commando is winning tourneys I will need extra strats to fight it. Thanks." reply: #1 you have to be patient when fighting BH becuase you will lose a lot of damage to a short-forward cooridor I-HOD combo if you don't play carefully. You have to teleport to get above by when he SJ's, or be in the air with him and fierce him, or dash forward and call sentinel or wait for BH to get close and call cable AAA and unload the knives to keep him safe. It's a fight to get knives and to release them. Which part of the bh/sent/commando gives you problems? __________________________________________________ _________ DOA362, "Jinmaster. You said that you only do the WOS on Cable usually. My question is why? I tend to do this because I know that the wall is there if needed but I like to expand on my actually fighting skills with Spiral. Also do you find it better to let spiral die or to use the safe switch. I know that having more characters means more life and a better chance at winning at time out but, if you switch her to cable ( I'm using the spiral,cable,sent team as an ex.) you can't DHC to sent if you mess up with cable or if you just need to get him out. Just wondering about your oppinion." reply: If you are worried about it, you can put Sentinel second and not have to worry about it when you switch. Othwerwise yes, always switch in safely. You NEED spiral to allow you to be a real threat with AHVB and HSF chipping traps, the HSF one is in my last post. I WOS cable for the reasons that other people have covered, it's too risky to get hit by clops or commando or psylocke and lose her to AHVBs. Full screen WOS with sentinel is very good becuase AHVB will get cut short by the trap. __________________________________________________ _________ bbh, "What’s the right time to call storm on the fiercex4, grenade, cable/storm trap? Why?" If its storm-A you call her as you start the fierces so you can jab-beam or gernade and be ready to SJ as thier guard ends from the typhoon. If it's storm-G you can call her at different times. =) __________________________________________________ _________ power-mahcine, "When would you suggest the use of cable’s A or C assist instead of B?" Never, but I suppose if I wanted to play Spiral/Cable/Cyke team I would consider it.... er maybe not. I can think of no use for picking it other than if you needed that assist for a team that already has a strong AA and you just want Cable on your team and need a zoning tool. I kinda like Cable-gamma with megaman... __________________________________________________ _________ Testament X, "What is the best way to play vs cable using Anakaris?I use this team: Anakaris-B/Cyc-B/Mag-A or Doom-B.My oponents use: Cable-A/Capcom-B/Jill or Mag / or Cable-B/Doom-B/Storm-A.Any strats for Anakaris also?" reply: I think Anakaris sucks vs cable, you have to drop coffins from not-quite full screen, and thats hard sometimes. Plus it's predictable. I suggest switching him out so you can use idle-hands assist to keep cable from using any useful moves against your other characters. Might be a good idea to start Mag in general. __________________________________________________ _________ DeathFromAbove, "Thanx for the help you've provided in the past. May I ask a question about Dhalsim? Do you know of any good patterns of airdashing/teleporting/drillkicking, to utilize for cross-up patterns while calling assists and playing his runaway game? I seem to end up on the wrong side, unable to protect my helpers, a bit too often. Thanx in advance. Also, hopefully you won't be offended if I try to answer someone's question?" reply: I'm sorry but I just don't have any practical experience vs good Dhalsims. The best Dhalsim around mid-cal is probably Kims, and he doesnt play him enough for people to even learn what he does with him. All I know is how to run away with him, other than that I have no clue. Might have to wait for B5 to see some dhalsim players. And btw, don't trip becuase you're not ranked. Help out all you like. Frankly, I don't even deserve rank anymore. That will change soon though. Have faith in me. =) __________________________________________________ _________ Beast of Fire, "1. Storm, Psylocke, Cable 2. Strider, Doom, Storm My problems with the first team are that I really am not sure of how to properly use Storm. The main reason I picked Psylocke is b/c her AAA is a good setup for Aerial Raves and AHVBs, and it stops Spiral from teleporting on top of my head. But I really need to know the proper way to use Storm." reply: Use her second like yer supposed to j/k. =) Nah, you just have to play very careful, don't swqing much in people's faces, land that psylocke, launch and do your combo. Run away, SJ up with fierce, air dash up with fierce, typhoon once or twice, lightning attack back up, slow drop while building more meter. Mix between that and rushdown and fake rushdown. Good stuff. =) Also, punish HVB's and other slow recovery supers with lightning attack XX super. Sorry but I just don't have time to repeat things I've already written. Please refer back 3-6 pages, I think you will find your answer there. __________________________________________________ _________ I'll do more later... Posted by Dc1 on 04:11:2001 11:35 PM: jinmaster: i heard that if u do c.wk, c.rk, after a psylock assist it's unrollable if u time it right, so what's the right timing, can other characters do unrollable otg with psylock assist also i'm having trouble doing the storm cross-up air-combo(the one where she do a four-hit air combo, then dash downforward to the other side and do lightling attack into lightling super), what's the trick for this combo to work lastly i notice psylock's psy-shot goes through some supers can u give me a list of the things it goes through thanx Posted by loki on 04:12:2001 12:26 AM: jinmaster, got some iron man questions is iron man any good to use? if so: what is his infinite, and how do you set it up? who is good to pair him with? would he work well as a battery for another charcter (cable?) or should i play him differently than that? what combos well into his proto cannon? would a rushdown partner(dhalsim? storm?) compliment him well? -thanks alot- Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 02:16 AM: To Loki: Loki: Iron Man is mainly used as a battery character. The way most people use him is by sj. smartbomb, air dash and repeat the process. You could also knee dive(D+Rk) and cancel into flight. Iron Man is best paired up with Psylocke's AAA to set up his infinite(Jp,Mp,Mk,U+Fp). There's some footage of Scott A. using it on SRK.com. You will NEVER want to whiff on a proton cannon. Cable has more than enough time to AHVB you after the lag. You can combo into it from his C.Mp, or you can DHC into and out of it. But Iron Man is mainly used to build meter. My post: I posted this in a different color to help your eyes So when will you start a new post?? I'm lost in all this clutter? And which team is better: Spiral(Projectile)/SilverSam(Ground)/Sentinel(Ground) Spiral(Projectile)/T.Bonne(Projectile)/Sentinel(Ground) SilverSam's assist helps with Spiral; I can crossover into Hp and swords. And is there any way to go into T.Bonne's infinite through assists(Not limited to the teams above) Posted by Hoe Muffin on 04:12:2001 06:04 AM: Jinmaster, I've decided to create an Avengers team (Captain America, Iron man, Hulk), and I need some serious help with Captain A and Hulk. Any general playing tips and strategies would be appreciated, I'm not (as you might imagine), having a whole lot of success with them . Posted by angelassassin on 04:12:2001 01:33 PM: Thanx yall Thanx yall (that means death and jin) for the Anakaris strats. i still gotta get the semi spiral infinite down but i might put cyke in my team somewhere! i just gotta fnd out where. everyone talks about his infinite but i dnot know it. i know it involes cyke and i know it is oing to be annoying for aomeone to post it again but could ya please tell me. ? that would be nice. peace Posted by Jinmaster on 04:12:2001 03:43 PM: Auto-Asphyxiation, "Sorry if you answered any of these questions already but im to lazy to sift through all the pages. Anyway 1. I cannot get the ironman AC to work. I get the jab-short-up+hp fine, but i can only get the jab-short of the next part. Whenever i hit up+hp it goes into some kick crap and im positive that im hitting the buttons right. And how do you do the Ironman Infinite its been driving me crazy trying to figure it out." reply: I'm not sure how you are getting a roundhouse instead of a fierce. I'm like, the worst combo person when it comes to Iron-man, the best I do is launch into 1,2,3,4, up+5, up +6, air-dash-up up+5, uni-beam. For the infinite, doing it is easy once you get the timing down. Go jump jab on the way up, strong, time-dealy, forward, up+fierce. So it's J.1, J.1, TD, J.2, J.UP+4 in MvC2 notation. Just make sure you jab on the way up and put a slight time delay between the 2nd hit of it and the 3rd. "2. With magneto someone told me of the combo jab-short-jab, delay a secong, jab-short-jab-short-dash uptowards then continue comboing or add an hypertempest or what not. But i can rarely get it past the 6th or 7th hit(including one hit launch), They always fall or I dash right past them. Can someone please explain the timing you need for this to work? Or is there a better combo that has more hits/damage in it? thanks" reply: Launch into early 1,2,3, TD(time delay), 1,2,3,4, air dash up, 1,2,3, TD, 1,2,3,4, rh-hyper-grav XX mag tempest. __________________________________________________ _________ I know I'm going slowly, but I'm very busy so pls understand peeps, PS anyone know how to make my font bright orange? Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 03:54 PM: Like this??? put 'color="orange"' in brackets, type your text, and when you're done type '/color' in brackets. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 04:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin Jinmaster, I've decided to create an Avengers team (Captain America, Iron man, Hulk), and I need some serious help with Captain A and Hulk. Any general playing tips and strategies would be appreciated, I'm not (as you might imagine), having a whole lot of success with them . These characters work best on dash assist. Hulk: With Hulk, countering jump-in attacks with the Gamma Crush is pretty good since the Gamma Crush has such high priority. Be sure you won't whiff though. A good idea with him is to poke with his JP. That's what I usually do with him. Hulk needs a good AAA like CapCom or Blackheart as he doesn't have much protection against rushdown except a surprise Gamma Crush. He works best 1st or 2nd. CapAmerica: With CapAmer, ALL OF HIS SUPERS CONNECT AFTER A FP SHIELD SLASH. To connect a Fp shield slash, hit it after a MP. He can use a Jp Shield Slash to ward off jumpers, but Psylocke AAA works well with him to set up his air combo. It's launch Jp,Jp,Jp,Double Jump,Air combo. CapAmer works as a battery the best, so he should be 1st. That's all I can really help with right now Posted by cheese_master on 04:12:2001 09:47 PM: Jinmaster.... after seeing those Ironman videos I got inspired to mess around with him and different assists and what not. I was messing around with his throw in the corner (f + HP) and found that you can start the infinite off of it with a j. LK.... and the best part is they cannot roll. I was wondering whether this was known before or I just came up with something brand new. I decided to ask you because I'm sure you've seen many Ironmans and what not playing in California. I thought this was incredibly insane... to be able to start the infinite off a throw in the corner... without assists... and the other person cannot roll. Well that was my question. I'm out. Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:12:2001 10:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Jinmaster.... after seeing those Ironman videos I got inspired to mess around with him and different assists and what not. I was messing around with his throw in the corner (f + HP) and found that you can start the infinite off of it with a j. LK.... and the best part is they cannot roll. I was wondering whether this was known before or I just came up with something brand new. I decided to ask you because I'm sure you've seen many Ironmans and what not playing in California. I thought this was incredibly insane... to be able to start the infinite off a throw in the corner... without assists... and the other person cannot roll. Well that was my question. I'm out. Even in Texas that is well known, so you did not find anything new. Congrats for having found it out on your own though. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 11:04 PM: Re: Thanx yall quote: Originally posted by angelassassin Thanx yall (that means death and jin) for the Anakaris strats. i still gotta get the semi spiral infinite down but i might put cyke in my team somewhere! i just gotta fnd out where. everyone talks about his infinite but i dnot know it. i know it involes cyke and i know it is oing to be annoying for aomeone to post it again but could ya please tell me. ? that would be nice. peace ANAKARIS His infinite: Anakaris w/ Cyclops AAA D+Hp+Assist/\Sk,Mk,Pharaoh's Curse, land and repeat Sorry I couldn't get to you earlier because I thought you were talking about Cyclop's infinite >_< Posted by DeathFromAbove on 04:13:2001 01:58 AM: Re: Thanx yall quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip His infinite: Anakaris w/ Cyclops AAA D+Hp+Assist/\Sk,Mk,Pharaoh's Curse, land and repeat That is correct, but a few addition comments should be made. First, the infinite was created by Viscant, so be nice to him. Second, the spacing changes depending on the size and fall rate of the character you are doing it on. You will sometimes need to drift forward or backward during the air combo to make it work. Third, the damage on this infinite does not scale like other infinites, because the Curse resets the combo meter. Fourth, when the opponent's life is low enough, just launch and do an AC that will kill him. That will leave you in better position to guard break the opponent as he comes in (fall down a ways and do a Curse). -DFA Posted by Bruton on 04:13:2001 02:50 AM: Avengers team: I recommend choosing Anti-air with Captain America. His anti-air is quite good(goes to SJ height, and I think it's invincible?). It's the best anti-air on the team, anyway. The other reason for the AA is for the A1/A2. You can easily go C.LK, C.MP XX A1/A2. You get Hyper Stars'n'Stripes, Proton Cannon, and it depends on Hulk, but if you can get the Gamma Crush in there so that Hulk doesn't miss, it's good. The Charging Star is also a good choice, but I typically always go for AA. If you go for AA, you might want Hulk to go for a horizontal Gamma Charge assist. It means that you essentially get the Charging Star anyway, though they are different moves. The good think about the horizontal Gamma Charge is that it also sets up Iron Man's infinite. Iron Man is the only one I'm not too sure on here, although I use him the most. You want to go for either uni-beam or Repulsor Blast. Unibeam has more range, which is handy on some teams, but Repulsor Blast does more damage and I think in this case it would complement Hulk and CapA's playing style(trying to get in). The order I would play them in is 1) IM/Hulk/Cap or maybe 2) IM/Cap/Hulk. Reason is that I think if you went for a Proton Cannon combo with IM, if you DHC to Gamma Crush, they probably can't get out of the way in time as the PC sends them up and then down, and they can't mash as they weren't hit by Hulk in the first place. You can probably DHC once Hulk is close, too. The second team has less dynamics I think, and your best bet is a DHC to Final Justice(if they can't escape. -Bruton Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 04:07 PM: Monkey, "Hi Jin! Once again, I'm preparing for a tourney.. What should I do for practice? Just play alot of mad good people in the area? Or get all my combos down good??" reply: Don't over-play the game. Playing too much, expecially vs the same people, is the worst thing you can do. If you play less you actually get better assuming you understnd the game. This is becuase you spend less time un-learning how to counter the people you play against so you can be fresh to react to something new. Stay away from patterns and work on being unpredictable. Also, don't play hard against people you are better than, and don't scope out players whom you are going ot fight next in a tournament if you know you are better. Trust me on this. Lastly, stay in the game and let nothing outside the game affect your game. __________________________________________________ _________ Overkill, "what is the main idea behind cable/doom/commando??" reply: It's a spin off on the old-school Cable trap of dashing forward and calling commando, dashing back and fierceX4 and gernade. Both your assists help you in-close, and commando helps up high. Doom let's you chip. It's a very straight-forward, and arguably predictable team. __________________________________________________ _________ Loki, "whats the best way to play rushdown storm, and what are some good Dhalsim strategies??? thanks" reply: Learn to triangle-jump with storm. Don't swing when they have AAA, just dash in and wait. Feel to see what the opponent is doing, and find the best way to dash in. Use your assists properly to stay in their face. I don't play dhalsim. __________________________________________________ _________ Ryu1999, "I haven't posted in this thread in a LOOONNG time, and its grown a lot. anyways i've determined the teams i'm most comftorable with, and i was wondering if you could tell me if they "mesh" together well. i know strider/doom/capcom is tourney-quality, but what about mags/psy/cable?" reply: That team can win too, alomst just as well, but you should be very good at long combos and throw options with Magneto so you don't have to rely on tempests in the same way that Mag/storm can. "i really don't like storm for some reason, so i replaced her with probably the most pivotal character in the game. anyways, the biggest problems with most cable teams is that he doesn't have a good anti air assist and since psy is useful to both chars (mag and cable), i thought this would an aite team. any problems besides spiral teleport hi-jinx? (since i don't think psy AA beats spiral like capcom AA?)" reply: The problem is that spiral and a few other characters can run away from you becuase you don't have a typhoon to give you control of the ground. I would almost consider using Cable-A just so that you have the option to mix up between rushdown and keep-away still. However, that cable-AAA is soooo useful...if they aren't playing sent-BH or you are fighting a linear opponent who likes to shoot from full-screen, I'd go with cable-A instead of B. __________________________________________________ _________ powermachine, "I would like to know who has the advanatge and why on the matches below:" "sent/cable/bh vs spiral/cable/sent" reply: Sentinel/Cable/BH has the advatage. Spiral has an insanely difficult time fighting sentinel with blackheat. She can barely find room to call knives, if Sentinel flys and calls bh and stomps on Spiral there is very little she can do, and there is a high chance you will whiff a cable-AAA. If sentinel dodges cable-AAA, he gets to do 1 round of flying short-forward DP-rocket-punch. He can do it again and again if you don't cross over, if you call knives cable will lose even more life, nearly 60%, plus Sent can call BH while flying, meaning spiral will get hit and Cable will take yet another round if spiral got hit or blocked the inferno away from cable. "sent/cable/comm vs cable/storm/clops" reply: Cable/Storm/Cyke hands down. Without BH sentinel cannot trap you at all, and you could actually start storm and build lots of meter, and then cable can kill you no matter where he is on the team. You can also start cable and control the ground with fierces and storm assist, getting you meter, and using clops to stop flying games, although Psylocke is better. "sent/cable/comm or bh vs spiral/storm/clops or sent" reply: Wierd.....I think the first team with BH is better. The first team doesn't need commando becuase Sentinel assist is almost as good, if not better than a normal AAA. Cable-AAA is good enough when Sentinel is on point since you can protect him. Spiral is a good character but she will have to trap you to death to win this fight with that team, even with sentinel instead of clops, you will lose to a good Setinel that has BH. __________________________________________________ _________ more to come And which good counters to the ones above(sent/cable/bh or comm, cable/storm/cyc and spiral/cable/sent)? edit: Oops, messed up here. There are no perfect counters, strider/doom teams can hurt Sentinel on point teams, but in general you can use a well-structured team like these and just play well. Posted by Testament X on 04:13:2001 04:27 PM: I started to play with Omega Red and im having some probs...first is there any way to connect 2 coins in a combo without needing your back to the corner?I know one way but they told me it was just a glitch vs colossus.If i play vs a keep way character i just use the burrowing coins to counter the assists and cancel to a omega strike,but what is the best way to play vs a keepway character with him?And how do you play a good rushdown?I jump with fp a lot,call a assist and air dash for the other side...and which assist i should chose for him?A-B or C?I use the A but i almost never have the chance to connect the throw. Thanks. Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:13:2001 04:38 PM: Jinmaster, I remember a while ago you and I disgreed on who has the advantage in Spiral vs Sent(not 1vs1, assist included). At that time you said Spiral had it. Then later on you changed your mind so that Sent has an advanatge, and now you state that Spiral has a lot more difficulty. What has made you change your mind so much? Also what do you think of Sent/Cable/BH compared to Sent/BH/CapCom? Personally I like the Cable version better, as I find Sent/BH/Capcom has more weaknesses(like Cable with a true AAA). Also CapCom AAA isn't too hot on point, and Cable AAA gets the job done. However for me it seems that CapCom is better suited for BH, but Cable AAA gets the job done for him as well(it is weird timing to tack on HOD after the AAA though). On a side note, since I really like Sent/BH, I'm trying to find a third partner that can cover their weaknesses and just be a good third partner, who do you recomend? Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 04:43 PM: Dc1, "jinmaster: i heard that if u do c.wk, c.rk, after a psylock assist it's unrollable if u time it right, so what's the right timing, can other characters do unrollable otg with psylock assist" reply: You have to time the short so that they land on it as a juggle. Just practice it, and to combo with storm you use S.short after psy hits. "also i'm having trouble doing the storm cross-up air-combo(the one where she do a four-hit air combo, then dash downforward to the other side and do lightling attack into lightling super), what's the trick for this combo to work" reply: It's hard, you have to hit them with moves early on the way up, and don't do the whole chain, just do 2 hits or something, ricky usually does 2-3 hits. Also, it's harder to do vs some characters, although I'm not qualified to comment on which ones just yet. =P "lastly i notice psylock's psy-shot goes through some supers can u give me a list of the things it goes through thanx" reply: It doesn't go through AHVB or Proton cannon, I don't think it goes through anything that matters. I know that it will go OVER some things, like a ground typhoon. I don't know about anything else, just experiment.. __________________________________________________ _________ loki, "is iron man any good to use? if so: what is his infinite, and how do you set it up?" reply: Dude, there is a link on the front page of SRK right now with a link to all the good ones, and I think we have disccused this 2-3 times by now....o_O "who is good to pair him with?" reply: Psylocke-AAA, Doom-AAA, Mag-B, Anakaris-B, Cable-AAA, can all be used in some fashion to set-up the infinite for Iron-man as well as supposrt him in his tasks.... yeah. "would he work well as a battery for another charcter (cable?) or should i play him differently than that?" reply: That's his job, wreak havoc and build meter for Cable, or whoever. "what combos well into his proto cannon?" reply: C.1 C.1 Proton cannon or C.1 C.1 replusor blast proton cannon. Assists also set it up. "would a rushdown partner(dhalsim? storm?) compliment him well?" reply: I think that most of the things that hurt Iron-man other than BH-AAA would also hurt rushdown characters. I don't think Dhal and Iron-man really belong on the same team, even though Dhal sets up his infnite as well. __________________________________________________ _________ Hoe Muffin, "Jinmaster, I've decided to create an Avengers team (Captain America, Iron man, Hulk), and I need some serious help with Captain A and Hulk. Any general playing tips and strategies would be appreciated, I'm not (as you might imagine), having a whole lot of success with them ." reply: Of course. Try cart-wheeling a lot while calling assists to cross over, learn his best AC combos, etc. His kick super will take a whole AHVB, but he gets stuck so it's not too useful. Just be patient and tricky. With Hulk you have to play very agressive, I use J.roundhouse or shortX2 to jump in. I use kick supers to stop air-peeps. Random gamma-charage into wave super works, and a lot of MvC1 tactics still apply, randomly cancelling whiffed moves into some version of a gamma wave or charge. Use Iron-man's repulor-blast assist to slow down whatver is going on and to give you room to manuever. Don't forget to go for throws and to mix it all up. Try to fill the screen with stuff when possible, although it's a slow process for Hulk and Captain. It's all about who is more random and patient. If you can, try to come up with some helper combos on your own. __________________________________________________ _________ angelassassin, reply: C.short, launch(call cyke as you leave the ground), short, forward, curse. They are mummified. Wave-dash over and do it again. __________________________________________________ _________ Thanks timeflip.. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 05:04 PM: You still never answered my question >_< But to DFA: I pick Omega Red's assist depending on the team I'm playing as...if I'd known your team I might be able to help better... And I'd like to learn how to dual coil throw too! Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 05:21 PM: Hoe muffin and Time Flip, Don't ever Gamma-crush as an anti-air. They can mash to get up before the rock hits and kill you. __________________________________________________ _________ Cheese_master, "Jinmaster.... after seeing those Ironman videos I got inspired to mess around with him and different assists and what not. I was messing around with his throw in the corner (f + HP) and found that you can start the infinite off of it with a j. LK.... and the best part is they cannot roll. I was wondering whether this was known before or I just came up with something brand new. I decided to ask you because I'm sure you've seen many Ironmans and what not playing in California. I thought this was incredibly insane... to be able to start the infinite off a throw in the corner... without assists... and the other person cannot roll. Well that was my question. I'm out." reply: I've never seen that particualr setup, but a lot of character's assists allow you to combo an infinite off a throw with Ironman. It may be new, but the real harcore Ironman players don't play against me very often. I have little fear of him though, cuase I fight well in-close IMO. __________________________________________________ _________ Testamanet X, "I started to play with Omega Red and im having some probs...first is there any way to connect 2 coins in a combo without needing your back to the corner?I know one way but they told me it was just a glitch vs colossus." reply: I only play OR against strider as a counter, but I don't even bother doing that anymore. I have not memorized any of his long combos, but I have downloaded several of them which you can find on this site. "If i play vs a keep way character i just use the burrowing coins to counter the assists and cancel to a omega strike,but what is the best way to play vs a keepway character with him?" reply: Mix that tactic with up+forward strikes which you down+cancel and attack on the way down or just land and try for a low attack. "And how do you play a good rushdown?I jump with fp a lot,call a assist and air dash for the other side...and which assist i should chose for him?A-B or C?I use the A but i almost never have the chance to connect the throw. Thanks." reply: A is stronger but I think B is more practical, depends on how practiced you are. I think you need to air dash and ground coil a lot and just try to stay as safe as possible. Be careful with that J.fierce vs AAA. I'm really not an OR player. __________________________________________________ _________ DathSalamander, "Jinmaster, I remember a while ago you and I disgreed on who has the advantage in Spiral vs Sent(not 1vs1, assist included). At that time you said Spiral had it. Then later on you changed your mind so that Sent has an advanatge, and now you state that Spiral has a lot more difficulty. What has made you change your mind so much?" reply: Expereince vs Ricky, Doug, Lamar, etc and just asking Ricky what he thought about it and then experimenting with Setinel further + the fact that good players have found an easy way out of the ground trap means that spiral can't call knives without a friggin war nor can she start her trap without a fight. She takes damage poorly although she has a very fair shot at snapping out sentinel and infiniting his BH assist here and there. She "can" win, but its not easy at all. So yeah, I changed my mind. =) "Also what do you think of Sent/Cable/BH compared to Sent/BH/CapCom? Personally I like the Cable version better, as I find Sent/BH/Capcom has more weaknesses(like Cable with a true AAA). Also CapCom AAA isn't too hot on point, and Cable AAA gets the job done. However for me it seems that CapCom is better suited for BH, but Cable AAA gets the job done for him as well(it is weird timing to tack on HOD after the AAA though)." reply: I think Alex is just a mad crazy Sentinel player that people aren't used to fighting and therefore lose to this team. If you can battery for Cable without getting hurt badly by Sentinel tactics then you should win for almost for free. BH/commando is a great combination though, so the team does flow well, I just feel that a lucky cable will come along and win that fight sooner or later. "On a side note, since I really like Sent/BH, I'm trying to find a third partner that can cover their weaknesses and just be a good third partner, who do you recomend?" reply: I recommend Cable, he is the best character for the team in my opinion. __________________________________________________ _________ Well, it's taken me a long time to answer everything. I'm not sure if I should continue this or just answer questions as they come along on the board. It seems many people here are asking questions that could be answered by any normal MvC2 player. Just think for a minute, you guys have the chance to ask me anything you want. I have played in more tournaments than I can count and I know what goes on in the top level more than anything else. If I could kick it with Duc or Valle for a weekend I would ask ENTIRELY different questions than the ones you guys are asking. I'll givve you guys a hint, stop relying on counter teams and tactics to win. Pick 1-3 teams that you know are veratile and stick with them, and then forumulate your questions. I want to help people learn to play MvC2, but the game isn't all traps. You have to think constantly vs an awake player. Most MvC2 players are auto-pilot players, alomost everywhere. You have to break your habits. You have to stay in the game to win, you have to pay attention to everything going on in the game. It's far more important to play solid than it is to pick the right team. People are too hung up on picking the perfect team. Team Shoto wins tournament games becuase Team shoto usually gets played by very good players. Maybe I should have the thread closed or something... I'm tired of combo questions. The most interesting questions I've seen lately are "how does one prepare for a tournament" and "who has the advantage in X vs Y and why?". I'm here to help you guys understand and get better at MvC2, not tell you how to play your teams or tell you the best ways to do your combos. =( Also, I don't mind helping you structure your garbage teams like team shoto or team tin can or team america, but when you ask me about them could you give me some idea of what works for you and what teams give you problems? Also, if you guys would give me an assesment of your skill level and your opponents when you ask a question, that will be useful to me in helping you. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 05:22 PM: Time, Which question? Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 05:34 PM: Which team is better: Spiral(Projectile)/SilverSam(Ground)/Sentinel(Ground) Spiral(Projectile)/T.Bonne(Projectile)/Sentinel(Ground) I've played with both teams. Spiral helps with chipping for Silver Sam. Silver Sam is the meter-user in this team. I've tried using Spiral with SilverSam assist, and it works really well. I'm probably worse with the second team though. I usually call Sentinel and Sk Air Bonne Strike. It does good chipping damage.I wanted to know what you think about these teams. And two more questions that you're going to hate me for asking: Is there any way to combo into T.Bonne's infinite? I'm out of ideas here. And what is the timing for SilverSam's infinite? That's the only other thing I need to master with Sam... Sorry if I bothered you with the last 2. P.S. I've started my own thread about teaching MVC2 in case you get tired of answering questions. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 05:52 PM: Timeflip, "Which team is better: Spiral(Projectile)/SilverSam(Ground)/Sentinel(Ground) Spiral(Projectile)/T.Bonne(Projectile)/Sentinel(Ground) "I've played with both teams. Spiral helps with chipping for Silver Sam. Silver Sam is the meter-user in this team. I've tried using Spiral with SilverSam assist, and it works really well. I'm probably worse with the second team though. I usually call Sentinel and Sk Air Bonne Strike. It does good chipping damage.I wanted to know what you think about these teams." reply: Well, I would put sentinel second, so I can combo a punch super with spiral after a fierce knife knife sentinel call knife knife punch super, wait, HSF DHC, fierce, rocket-punch, etc. The question is which character you want as an assist. If you plan on losing spiral and Sentinel, Samurai s the better chipper, Tron is the better zone character. Tron is a better assist, but can't punish assists like sammy can. I'd go with Tron-projectile assist personally. "And two more questions that you're going to hate me for asking: Is there any way to combo into T.Bonne's infinite? I'm out of ideas here. And what is the timing for SilverSam's infinite? That's the only other thing I need to master with Sam... Sorry if I bothered you with the last 2. P.S. I've started my own thread about teaching MVC2 in case you get tired of answering questions." reply: I have not memorized nor have ever done either infinite. You aren't bothering me, no one here is bothering me. I saw your thread. Good luck in it. I've just had a hard week at work and I'm tired of seeing questions that were answered weeks ago. Seriously, this site is a wealth of information and people are coming at me saying they are too lazy to read through my thread and yet want my help. This thread is a firggin book of info from a player who know's whats going on. I can't tell you how unappreciated I feel when someone asks me something becuase they are too lazy, yet I take time to help them anyway half the time. I'm just getting frustrated, becuase IF people actually read thorough this whole thread, they probably wouldn't ask me how to do an infnite with some character no one uses or how to do the longest magneto combo or how to run with storm vs EVERYONE. Bah. I like you timflip don't trip. Heh. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 06:02 PM: I'm going with Sam then...There aren't really alot of good people at where I play...I wish I could play against you, but thanks for everything Posted by wm on 04:13:2001 06:20 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster wm, reply: #1 you have to be patient when fighting BH becuase you will lose a lot of damage to a short-forward cooridor I-HOD combo if you don't play carefully. You have to teleport to get above by when he SJ's, or be in the air with him and fierce him, or dash forward and call sentinel or wait for BH to get close and call cable AAA and unload the knives to keep him safe. It's a fight to get knives and to release them. Which part of the bh/sent/commando gives you problems? Mostly sent on point flying and using both AAAs trying to keep me out of room or cross up. (my team is spiral/cable/sent). And what if I play cable/storm/cyc? My chances will be better or worse? And if you have the time, could you go more in depth about why now you think that cable/storm/aaa beats spiral/cable/sent? Thanks a lot Posted by That One Guy on 04:13:2001 06:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by wm And if you have the time, could you go more in depth about why now you think that cable/storm/aaa beats spiral/cable/sent? Thanks a lot Storm can easily fly over the Spiral/Sentinel trap. When Cyclops performs his AAA, he's invincible until he lands. That could knock Spiral away and set Cable up for an AHVB. Posted by powermachine on 04:13:2001 06:48 PM: Jin, could you analyse to me sentinel/cable/bh vs cable/storm/clops(since you said that bh is better than commando on the first team)? Which one you thinks has the advantage? Important: Please please please don't give up on the thread. While some lazy people may make you think that it's a waste, I can tell you that I printed all the answers from you, fluffy, kdcmarvel and stiltman(almost 150 pages now) and all my friends at the arcade are making copies of it. We're using it as "the MvC2 final book"or something like it and you're almost a legend here(well, not that much ). Your thread is better than any other ever(even the old Duc's thread) because you give high level answers with details, and even ask us if there's something missing on the answers. It's fantastic. If I can put my opinion, I think you should not answer questions that are already completely answered or questions for non tourney characters(even because there are probably other members specialized at these characters that can helps people better). What kind of questions do you find good to answer? Lastly, it's way better to put all in one thread because the thread becomes a magnet to great players. Besides the good players I mentioned above, Dasrik wrotes some good stuff early, Time Flip is making a good effort to help now, and doombh is bringing some high level strategys from other players so you can analyze it. And before I forget, after more than 500 posts this thread has no flames at all. It's easily the best because all the answers come from experience(most threads have scrubs trying to help but in fcat confusing even more), it is polite, the answers are complete and it's becoming the point for good players to talk. So please please please please keep this thread going! Thank you very much for all your effort, Jin. I'll come back later Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 07:03 PM: Dear PowerMachine: Thanx for the compliment ...I'm going to post in yellow to differentiate between people But for the two teams, I feel the first team is better with BH as an assist since BH's assist is tracking. BH's assist also lasts longer than CapCom, allowing Cable to be slightly safer. Sentinel has access to his trap, and would most likely hit Cyclops if Cable is stupid enough not to protect him >_< That's all I got right now. Now for JinMaster: How do you think Spiral/SilverSam/Sentinel do in tourneys...I've never been to one before. *gray's too dark for my eyes >_< *green too >_< Posted by Dasrik on 04:13:2001 07:37 PM: Yo Micah. I'm not playing in tournaments anymore (too much pressure for this sickly old man) but I still like to engage in casual play. Okay, I might enter a scrubworks tournament for quick cash, but that's it. Anyway, here goes. * Current "bizness" team: BH/Doom/CapCom. I'm trying to finetune this team to get the weaknesses out. Right now, my main worry is trappy Sentinel. Against Cable or Spiral, I'd just start Doom; vs. someone who starts BH or Sentinel (and likes to stomp), I'd put on my jockstrap and start CapCom. Trappy Sentinel (Sent/BH) is rough; BH gets rocked by BH assist; Doom's hard pressed to lock down Senty with photons; CapCom can't ever get close enough to do anything special. Any suggestions? And anything else I should worry about? Posted by Jinmaster on 04:13:2001 10:28 PM: wm, "Which part of the bh/sent/commando gives you problems?.. Mostly sent on point flying and using both AAAs trying to keep me out of room or cross up. (my team is spiral/cable/sent)." reply: Well, you can use cable-AAA to get Sentinel off of you, as long as you are really smart about it and teleport or j.fierce should Sentinel dodge it. Just block high and push block and be patient. What I like to do is play Spiral like a normal rushdown character and then randomly SJ up and get knives at random times so that I won't be predictably beaten for trying to load up. Don't forget that you can quick drop and call an assist off a super-jump, although I would not do this too much against commando, just remember its an option. "And what if I play cable/storm/cyc? My chances will be better or worse? And if you have the time, could you go more in depth about why now you think that cable/storm/aaa beats spiral/cable/sent? Thanks a lot" reply: Well, I've given up on cyclops and have switched to Psylocke. Psyloke hits anything belonging to sentinel and you have all day to AHVB. But yes, I think Cable/Storm/Clops has a better chance vs Sentinel/BH/Commando than Spiral/Cable does. Why do I think Cable/Storm has the advantage? Spiral needs to get knives. If you keep calling storm-A, randomly switch between SJ gernades, s.fierce(if they block it do a fierce viper for chip), J.fierce, jab beams, and use your aaa when Spiral teleports or gets close, she naturally has a hard fight. Becuase you have an AAA, you never get trapped becuase your AAA takes the knives for you, with a side benifit of giving you meter. This means spiral reallly needs to teleport and call assists to hurt you at all, and thats dangerous vs Cable/AAA. __________________________________________________ _________ That One Guy, "Storm can easily fly over the Spiral/Sentinel trap. When Cyclops performs his AAA, he's invincible until he lands. That could knock Spiral away and set Cable up for an AHVB" reply #1 Storm has to be very careful to evade the trap itself, and has to be even more careful during the approach. #2 Cyclops invincibility ends after the first hit or so, just like Ryu. Please do not say something is a fact unless you are sure ok? Thanks. __________________________________________________ _________ powermachine, "Jin, could you analyse to me sentinel/cable/bh vs cable/storm/clops(since you said that bh is better than commando on the first team)? Which one you thinks has the advantage?" reply: I think Cable/Storm/AAA has the advantage. I'll admit that I do hold back information sometimes, becuase they way this thread has been going, I feel like I'm giving my opponents quite an advantage against me by telling everything. There has been so much shit talking going on both in front and behind the scenes, I will probably wait till after B5 to tell everything I know. But anyway, it's not an easy fight but you should be able to fierceX4 call storm and jab beam then SJ up and let loose a gernade, or dash-jump at Sentinel and use your AAA in close for pressure or to hit. You should be able to build meter faster than you get chipped, if much at all. You have to play very solid. When you have meter the game ends as sentinel looses his ability to really do anything. Then it comes down to Cable/Cable, and thats another story. Psylocke assist should win you that fight as Cable must rely on Sentinel as AAA and BH for semi-traps. Also remember that Sentinel is incredibly weak vs throws, he has zero throw range and trying to tech with him gets most people killed. If Cable is dead and Sentinel/BH is on point, try to corner him and whoop some ass with throws, pokes, and AAA. "Important: Please please please don't give up on the thread. While some lazy people may make you think that it's a waste, I can tell you that I printed all the answers from you, fluffy, kdcmarvel and stiltman(almost 150 pages now) and all my friends at the arcade are making copies of it. We're using it as "the MvC2 final book"or something like it and you're almost a legend here(well, not that much ). Your thread is better than any other ever(even the old Duc's thread) because you give high level answers with details, and even ask us if there's something missing on the answers. It's fantastic. If I can put my opinion, I think you should not answer questions that are already completely answered or questions for non tourney characters(even because there are probably other members specialized at these characters that can helps people better). What kind of questions do you find good to answer?" Reply: I like things to be specific. People like my detailed answers, and yet all of the information I give out is like, the basics in my mind. If people were more clear on what happens during their WHOLE match and actually had an idea or two about what they could do differently, then they'd be on the right track and I could tell them wether their ideas are good, bad, or untested. I hate combo questions unless they are simple. Asking how to throw off of Doom's air dash is one thing, asking me to put Magnetos 100% combo with throw options into notation is VERY annoying. However, too simple annoys me too. If one more person asks me how to do storm's air combo I am going to quit the thread. ... Just kidding. =P I also like questions that.... gawd. Ok, let me put it this way. Most of the people I have tried to help both on and offline with MvC2 haven't "got it" yet. Most of the community hasn't "got it" yet. Basically, I've had the opportunity to see the best players play and also play against them. I don't get to play against them as often as I like, and I'm probably not even deserving of being in the top 15 in CA anymore, but these experinces I have... no one seems to take advantage of. I think at 2-3 points in this therad, I went to a tournament and mentioned it. Like, 2-3 people ever asked me what happened, what I lost to, what I should have done, what it was like, was I neverous, all that stuff. The people who did bother to ask me those kind of questions did so on my site forum that I don't even check anymore. If I'm telling everyone that traps don't win you games and counter teams don't win you games, what are logical questions to ask? Counter teams do counter right? Traps beat people at the arcade right? Hm...maybe none of it matters? MvC2 is a good game for these two reasons: Traps don't win tournaments(at least where everyone is somewhat knowledgeable based on skill levels that are fairly compareable), and picking the better team doesn't win you tournaments either. If everyone understood that, I would just be lost in the crowd. Clue, a lot of what I'm trying to get across here is NOT MvC2 specific. It just happens to be very difficult to deal with in this game due to multi-tasking. "Lastly, it's way better to put all in one thread because the thread becomes a magnet to great players. Besides the good players I mentioned above, Dasrik wrotes some good stuff early, Time Flip is making a good effort to help now, and doombh is bringing some high level strategys from other players so you can analyze it. And before I forget, after more than 500 posts this thread has no flames at all. It's easily the best because all the answers come from experience(most threads have scrubs trying to help but in fcat confusing even more), it is polite, the answers are complete and it's becoming the point for good players to talk. So please please please please keep this thread going! Thank you very much for all your effort, Jin. I'll come back later" reply: Thanks dude, I feel better now. For real, no sarcasm. Where exactly is this arcade where people know me? I bet its in the Arizona Desert or something. =P Well, I'll keep it going if you think its really heling people still. Thanks for the support man, more later.. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 10:36 PM: Hope you remember my question this time >_< Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:14:2001 06:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Yo Micah. I'm not playing in tournaments anymore (too much pressure for this sickly old man) but I still like to engage in casual play. Okay, I might enter a scrubworks tournament for quick cash, but that's it. Anyway, here goes. * Current "bizness" team: BH/Doom/CapCom. I'm trying to finetune this team to get the weaknesses out. Right now, my main worry is trappy Sentinel. Against Cable or Spiral, I'd just start Doom; vs. someone who starts BH or Sentinel (and likes to stomp), I'd put on my jockstrap and start CapCom. Trappy Sentinel (Sent/BH) is rough; BH gets rocked by BH assist; Doom's hard pressed to lock down Senty with photons; CapCom can't ever get close enough to do anything special. Any suggestions? And anything else I should worry about? Ok, there are a few things I will mention, but number one is start Doom. Doom/BH is sooo good still. Plus, if you start BH, you basically have to build your own meter, and that's possibly why you're having problems against Sentinel. If you play old school Doom/BH, you have a lot of winnable fights, but you'll more than likely loose to Strider/Doom and Sent/BH. Strider/Doom is made easier by switching to a different AAA. Against Sent/BH, you can start BH, but there are other factors to put in. If you're fighting against Sent/Cable/BH, then you have to be really careful not to let BH die. You need Doom/BH against Cable, mostly cuz it's your only viable way to fight him. Anyway, more on Sent/BH. Basic trap with Sent/BH is C.Fierce, BH, Short or Roundhouse Drones. If it's a Short drones, you'll be able to SJ out after the drones hit you. He'll more than likely do another C.fierce, and if he doesn't cancel into HSF (which he can only do for as many meters as he has) then you'll be able to escape. Just be careful cuz just when you get out, he can call BH again. That's kind of what you want him to do though. When you come down, you want to be within Commando assist distance in order to make sure you can hit him (and BH for that matter). Once you knock BH away, you gain control temporarily. You should know the BH patterns that will work on Sent and avoid BH assist. It's kind of hard to explain, but you want to do SJ.Roundhouse, air dash past BH assist (hard if they know you're doing it) and come down on Sent's backside with another SJ.Roundhouse or a SJ.Short. You can also come down with nothing if you don't think it's safe. Sent can S.Roundhouse or Snapback you if he times it right, but it's hard. If Sent wants to go air to air with you, you're SJ.Jab will beat anything he has and you can do a quick little Jab -> Short -> Forward and knock him down. Once you're on the ground again, you're going to need to find another opportunity to use Commando again, if anything to hit BH and to make Sent block. If you keep doing that, you'll eventually win. At least that portion of the match. Your next obsticle is Cable. And he can be quite fierce if he has enough meter. I would recommend finding a way to get Doom in before Sent dies. Hopefully, with all the SJ.Roundhouses, you'll have build up enough meter to be able to DHC Doom in. If you can actually hit a commando assist, Inferno XX HOD, DHC Proton Array. it won't do much damage, but it will hit, and will be safe. Then, finish off Sent with Doom/BH trap. Now you fight Cable, which is pretty much standard Doom/BH trappings (J.Fierce, call BH, SJ.photon shocks x 2, repeat) but you do have to be careful because he can AHVB you if when you start every cycle. Just be careful after every cycle, like sometimes just jump back with nothing and see if he takes the bait. Doom is still your best bet at fighting Cable although if there was a spot your team would loose, it would be right here. You'll still have to contend with BH assist, but your doom/bh trap should be keeping him from being too effective. Last but not least, you will have to deal with BH. Basically, Commando assist takes him out fairly well, but if the match is close, you'll need other methods. Hopefully, you will have at least two meters at this point. If you do, then any attack BH sticks out that at you while you're on the ground is bait for you to variable counter into commando and cancel that into Captain Sword. captain sword works soo well against BH. It only really doesn't work good on Cable and Doom. With Commando against BH, you can Corridor anything he sticks out that isn't a Jab, Short, or forward on the ground on recovery, not to mention if you just decide to randomly corridor on him when you think he'll swing. I would write more, but i might be nearing the 10000 word limit. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:14:2001 07:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip Dear PowerMachine: Thanx for the compliment ...I'm going to post in yellow to differentiate between people But for the two teams, I feel the first team is better with BH as an assist since BH's assist is tracking. BH's assist also lasts longer than CapCom, allowing Cable to be slightly safer. Sentinel has access to his trap, and would most likely hit Cyclops if Cable is stupid enough not to protect him >_< That's all I got right now. Now for JinMaster: How do you think Spiral/SilverSam/Sentinel do in tourneys...I've never been to one before. *gray's too dark for my eyes >_< *green too >_< Ok, I've started playing Samuri a bit more lately, and I don't see where a Spiral/Sammy/Sent team would be any better than the normal variation of Spiral/Cable/Sent. Personally, I'd stick with either Doom/Sammy/BH or Sammy/Doom/Cyke. Doom/Sammy/BH variation is a basic Doom/BH, and you'll want to DHC to samuri lightning super if you ever nail an air combo and end it with a photon array. Does a nice bit of damage. When Sammy is in, you'll have too...well...I really don't know what to do. I know if you can do full zigzag air combos and as soon as you land, you can call Doom, they'll get up, and you can throw two shurikens before they recover. Whole combo with chipping does near 80% damage. Also, he has good air throw priority (roundhouse air throw, not fierce). You can try to get close enough to bait out an assist to which you'll lighting super it. The best positioning to get in an assist is to get it right behind you when you do it. It's really easy to do that to most AAAs, as they usually end up behind you as it is. If you catch one like that, it's usually more than 50%, but I can't remember how much to be exact. I just remember it was ungodly. A lot of people will say go into ice mode, but to me, it's a waste of a meter as you loose his lighting super. Shuriken super chips a lot too, like 10% i think, and it all chips Iceman, which is a plus. Sammy/Doom/cyke plays a lot the same, but if you hit a cyke assist, you can dash under and lightning super for some good damage. You'll want to keep the active inside the lighting. If you picture it as a Y (cuz if you hit it on the ground, they will get pushed out) and you'll want to be as close as you can to being directly under him to keep it safe and do a lot of damage. You can also get an air combo off of cyclops that will end with an air throw. His air throw is realy good, as it basically throws your opponent high into the air and then will land and have to roll. If you ever get him into the corner and land the air throw, you can juggle your opponent off of the ground (not an OTG, but a juggle) with C.Short (call cyke) -> C.Strong, and then SJ for a four hit zigzag into air throw again. it's a nice little option for those that don't know how to tech hit. You'll also want to get used to the range on the gorund that will allow you to cross up with a Jumping Roundhouse. It's a useful tactic. Hope this helps. Posted by angelassassin on 04:15:2001 03:49 AM: bright idea...finally ya know jin... you are more about strats and thinking in battle than combos and traps. i realized that today when i was fighting, i have a hard head so i was using Anakaris/cammy/bh again and u lost to a spiderman/Mags/capcom team. i also lost to a felicia/mags/capcom team. during the fights i would go airbore alot a nd drop a couple of coffins. i cant really do any of the crazy anakaris combos that i have seen so i just go for combos i know i will hit.( Ground chains) during one of my fights i decided to play very defensively. i did not go airborne much in that fight. i just timed my assists(Cammy anti air/BH antu air) in luanched whenever he jumped with an attack. he did not even get my anakaris down to half energy. i also faced the strider/doom trap. i super jumped and threw coffins intill it ended. what gets me is Capcom's anti air. i can beat Capcom one on one but i get lucky if i throw one coffin in the air. normally i play against Mags/cammy/capcom mags/cable/cammy Felicia/Mags/cammy (I play against a lot for cammy/mags/cable/strom ) i am starting to teleport more as spiral now and i dont super jump much with anyone...even blackheart.. during my fights i was trying to bait an assist so i can kill it with anakaris asp rush...into whatever if nedded. i know you dont play anakaris but thats okay. i want to know how would u change up your tactics in battle. i am starting to get a ground Anakaris and an aireal Anakaris. both do a lot of damage on their own and a little more with assists. thanx for the help and keep it up. someday i might actually play u ( and hopefully win! ) Posted by The-Famouser on 04:15:2001 06:58 AM: Hi, I need some help with my team. and I have recieved some help. Some helpful, others just playin tellin me to ditch my team. I'll just repost the 1st message from my thread. 'sup people My current team right now is Sentinel(Gamma), Thanos(Beta), and Juggernaut(Beta). I have 3 main problems: 1. with the exception of Sentinel, I lack a long range game. This gets annoying when going up against beamers. I can sometimes get through via Juggernaut assist, but other than that I'm at a loss. Tips anyone? 2. I need to learn to play Juggernaut better. Any strats for him anyone? 3. I can pull off some good combos with them (my favorite is Jug assist-->PowerGem-->RealityGem) but I need more. suggestions? thx in advance The Famouser Posted by ThunderForceGod on 04:15:2001 07:02 AM: Multiple Air Supers with Jill. When and where and how Jinn? Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:15:2001 09:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster Well, it's taken me a long time to answer everything. I'm not sure if I should continue this or just answer questions as they come along on the board. It seems many people here are asking questions that could be answered by any normal MvC2 player. Just think for a minute, you guys have the chance to ask me anything you want. I have played in more tournaments than I can count and I know what goes on in the top level more than anything else. If I could kick it with Duc or Valle for a weekend I would ask ENTIRELY different questions than the ones you guys are asking. I'll givve you guys a hint, stop relying on counter teams and tactics to win. Pick 1-3 teams that you know are veratile and stick with them, and then forumulate your questions. I want to help people learn to play MvC2, but the game isn't all traps. You have to think constantly vs an awake player. Ok so what would you ask Duc and Ricky then? What are the kind of questions that you think we should be asking? Examples? Posted by Bruton on 04:15:2001 12:50 PM: Jinmaster: Hey, I for one appreciate your help; you've really helped me to improve my game. Thanks. I'm mixing around a lot of teams at the moment, trying to find the strengths of each. One of my favourite teams now is IronMan/Cable/Doom. I used to use Psylocke instead of Doom to set up the infinite, but I can do it from either Doom or Cable assist now(and Doom's a lot better than Psylocke). Is this team any good? I know it's a bit weak with the invincible AA, but does it have a good chance? I also started playing a bit more Psylocke/Storm/Mags... wrong order I know, but I like doing Psylocke's double jump combo to butterfly super, MT, OTG to AC with MT(no Hypergrav), Hailstorm. This isn't a serious team for me though. Also, what characters do you recommend for Megaman-based teams? I like the J.Punch assist(glitched, if possible) with it, but also Sentinel. I'm also very partial to Cable on most of my business teams, though I use most of the top tier now(as well as Iceman and Iron Man). Are Spiral/Doom teams not good for tournaments? It seems hard to stop her from calling knives. Posted by cheese_master on 04:15:2001 04:20 PM: Jinmaster, I was wondering what teams are good counter teams for the these few that I have a lot of trouble with... Spiral, Sentinel, Blackheart. Cable, Sentinel, Blackheart.... and Sentinel, Blackheart, Captain Commando. I was playing my friend in a tournament with first the team of Doom, Cable, Blackheart... but he got me in the Sentinel, Blackheart trap and chipped away like 50% of my Doom. Then when I moved to using Storm, Cable, Cyclops... he used Sentinel, Blackheart, and CapCom. So can you tell me some good counter teams and counter strats against these irritating Space limiting teams. Posted by FireHawk on 04:15:2001 07:51 PM: Wuzzup How do I do the Spiral wall of Swords trap? I heard you had to push the button REAL fast. Props Posted by on 04:15:2001 07:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by FireHawk Wuzzup How do I do the Spiral wall of Swords trap? I heard you had to push the button REAL fast. Props Wall of Swords consists of having a fast assist and one that covers Spiral during the time she reloads her swords. 1. Call assist (Cable's projectile, Sentinel's ground, etc, etc) 2. Call swords 3. Throw swords 4. Repeat 1 Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:16:2001 09:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Jinmaster, I was wondering what teams are good counter teams for the these few that I have a lot of trouble with... Spiral, Sentinel, Blackheart. Cable, Sentinel, Blackheart.... and Sentinel, Blackheart, Captain Commando. I was playing my friend in a tournament with first the team of Doom, Cable, Blackheart... but he got me in the Sentinel, Blackheart trap and chipped away like 50% of my Doom. Then when I moved to using Storm, Cable, Cyclops... he used Sentinel, Blackheart, and CapCom. So can you tell me some good counter teams and counter strats against these irritating Space limiting teams. You can't really depend on counter teams for matchups all the time. That's one of the points Jinmaster has made on this thread earlier. You have to depend on your team to take the first match. Then, if you win, you can afford a loss and switch to a counter. If you loose first match, and then you counter, your opponent has the opportunity to counter you back. Typical tourney strategies. Beyond that, you just have to know how to out-manuevre your opponent sometimes. You mentioned two teams: Spiral/Sentinel/Blackheart and Sentinel/Blackheart/Commando. You said you were using Doom/Cable/Blackheart and Storm/Cable/Cyclops. Against Spiral/Sentinel/Blackheart, your first goal is to eliminate Spiral. You should be able to do that with Doom/BH trap. Just jump back with fierce while calling BH. You have to vary it a bit though, and try to keep your distance. Your main goal when fighting against Spiral in general is just to keep her from getting knives. One of the main ways you can do that is with Blackheart AAA. If she even SJs to call knives, you should be calling BH assist. You can even wait until you see her SJ to do it, but you should be calling him whenever she SJs. This will usually prompt two responses: either Spiral will wait to block BH and call knives, or she'll try to teleport. If you see her blocking, SJ up there with her and hit the knives off of her as they form. If she tries to teleport, pay attention to where she is and try to punish her. But, in general, you don't want to really get into it with her on the ground. Just look at it this way. If you ever block a S.Fierce, she'll call Sent and get knives. If you ever get thrown on the ground, you'll get thrown up really high and she'll get knives. If she lands an air throw, you will get thrown away from her and she'll get knives. You have to try to avoid those situations whenever possible. When Sentinel comes in, you really just need to know where the hole in the trap is. If Sent has meter, he can fill the hole with a Hyper Sentinel Force. But, when he doesn't, you can escape. It's hard to explain, and i'm sure it has been explained earlier in this thread, so look for it. As a matter of fact, I know it's in this thread cuz i remember replying to it. All you have to do is show your opponent you can get out and he'll be forced to use his meter to chip you. You should still have Doom in there, and he'll more or less die. That isn't a big problem, as long as you have Cable coming in with at least 4 meters, you will do ok. If not, then it will be hard. You can try to save Doom if you are good at using Cable's variable counter to get him in and then AHVB off of the variable counter, but that's really advanced. But, most of the time, you can catch Sentinel and BH and own them both. If you have 5 meters, you can kill them both. Sentinel/BH/Commando is a lot of the same as above. I would probably start Cable against this team, mostly cuz AHVB can break up Sent/BH trap. You have to use it sparingly though, as you'll need to build another meter to do it again and you don't have a very good outlet to do so. If you ever gain control of the match, there's a nice little trap you can do with Cable/BH that is very hard for Sentinel to get out of and it will build meter for you. Basically, you can use S.fierce x 4 with BH assist and grenades, but the timing is hard to explain. You kinda have to see it to see how it works. After killing Sent, BH/Commando shouldn't present too much of a problem, provided you still have a meter or two with Cable. When/if Cable does, you still have Doom/BH trap, which is very hard for BH to get out of. And it will also be hard for him to make Commando useful. If you are doing it and you notice he's close enough to call Commando, just don't throw anything out and try to Photon Array him. Should be easy pickin's from there. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:16:2001 09:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bruton Also, what characters do you recommend for Megaman-based teams? I like the J.Punch assist(glitched, if possible) with it, but also Sentinel. I'm also very partial to Cable on most of my business teams, though I use most of the top tier now(as well as Iceman and Iron Man). Well, the most effective Megaman teams I've found are Megaman/Sent/BH and Megaman/Y-Cable/Cyclops. The first variation is more of a defensive assist punishing team. You can use J.Fierce while calling Sentinel to punish most of the commonly uses helpers fairly effectively. A lot of players won't realize what has happened until it's too late. Other than that, you build meter and try to get an opportunity to get Sent in and commence with Sent/BH trap. One of the main problems I've had with this team is Cable. When your opponent plays Cable second and builds up to 4 meters, you will have a problem dealing with variable counter into AHVB x 3. You have no answer to that other than trying to not let it make an impact. But sometimes, there's just no stopping AHVB. The second is a more hardcore trap variant with a bit of rushdown mixed in and is a much better team for fighting Cable. If Cable starts, you should do fairly well. Cable with A-Storm presents somewhat of a problem, but the major trend with Storm now is to pick Y-Storm, so it's a safe bet IMO. Megaman/Y-Cable is such a good trap. Cable's grenade assist is fast activating and once he throws it, it's out. If he gets hit, it's still out. It does break up a lot of things and has a general propencity to get in the way of a lot of things. Mix that in with J.Fierces and rockball, and Cable doesn't get much opportunity to AHVB. It is equally difficult for Cable to variable counter in and AHVB cuz of the weird timing on the Cable grenade assist. Most of the time, the only holes in the trap are when you hesitate. I think there is a real hole, but I'm not too sure. I haven't played this team in a while. The only real weakness this team has is that it's really difficult to get Cable in once you build up your meter. You can't really variable counter him in unless you've got that much of an opening, and that usually means you could have just switched in for free. There is a safe switch tactic with Megaman that works really well in the trap. You have to vary it a bit and in a rotation where you would call a rockball, call the leaf sheild item. Then, in the next rotation, you should have Cable's grenade covering you, so you can make the leaf sheild. Then, you do the last J.Fierce and then throw the leaf sheild and switch ASAP. Cable will come in before the last few hits of the sheild hit, and you'll be safe. Good tactic to know and it's not hard to work into your game. Calling the leaf item means there will be a hole in the trap, but most people aren't prepared to capitalize on it and it's not that important to do, you just don't want to let Cable take any damage before he comes in. Also, I would recommend that you try to switch into Cable as soon as you get 5 meters cuz doing this trap does hardly any chip and it's better to have a loaded Cable in there than to have Megaman. The loaded Cable will usually be what wins the match for you, but don't count out Megaman on that front as well. If the match is close, when you Cable dies, it is always good to have Megaman back in as there isn't a lot out there that can take him 1on1. Megaman in general has some pretty bad fights. Sentinel just owns him cuz of C.Fierce beam. Sent/Bh is even worse. Cable second is usually bad too. Cable as point does have options, but most of those are limited to your choice of assists. Iron Man also had rip Megaman a new one, mostly due to S.fierce and Unibeams ripping throw everything thrown at him. Iceman is another problematic fight. His Icebeam is just too fast and you don't have much to stop him from SJing and throwing the downward beam at you unless you are playing BH, and even then it's really hard to get anything done on him cuz he doesn't take chipping from a lot of what you're doing. Cyclops can also be a rough match. Most of those bad fights can be made better if you play Megaman/Cable/Cyke and try to rush down and cuz people to get hit by Cyke assist. Cyke assist = free air throw or Hyper Megaman. IMO, Megaman is a fairly solid Magneto killer, provided you know how to fight Magneto in general. Magneto/Storm does present a bit of a problem. I would recommend Megaman/Cable/Cyke team for that. He's also pretty good at stopping just about every other character in the game with his various tactics. quote: Originally posted by Bruton Are Spiral/Doom teams not good for tournaments? It seems hard to stop her from calling knives. IMO, Spiral/Doom has a lot of the same problems as Strider/Doom. it's all revolved around getting someone in the corner and keeping them there, which can be broken up mostly by mashing on AAA at the right time. Plus, the team usually has Cable on it and doesn't have a solid enough AAA for him, so it's a lot tougher of a match. Jinmaster has way more faith in this team than I do, so maybe he'll grace us with his thoughts on this eventually =P Posted by *Dp on 04:16:2001 10:18 PM: Which character assist included would you say is better overall cammy or capatin commando.I'm going to go with cammy she get's out of traps better and can easily beat a predictable beam player.Then her AAA assist is pure meaning it has invincibilty on it's way up. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:16:2001 10:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Ok so what would you ask Duc and Ricky then? What are the kind of questions that you think we should be asking? Examples? Personally, I can't really think of many questions that I would ask Duc or Ricky. If I were to ask them something, it would be more about why they play some of the teams that they play. Like, I've seen Duc switch up teams when he plays Valle. The teams I've seen used most frequently by Duc is tournaments are Spiral/Cable/Sent, Mags/Storm/Psylock, and Team Shoto. He uses Team shoto early, Mag/Storm/Psylocke after that if Team Shoto fails, and when you needs the win, he plays Spiral/Cable/Sent. But, when he plays against Valle (who uses BH/Sent/Commando) I've seen him pick BH/Cable/Cyke. I dont' really know clearly why he does this, but I think I know. A lot of other questions I had for the top players have already been answered for me. For that, I'm very lucky. Now, I wouldn't expect the average SRKer to go ask a question as high end as that one would be, but I get a little tired of some people that don't know how to use the search function. One problem i have with a lot of these Q and A threads is that a lot of what is asked has already been addressed in other threads, or even in other parts of the same thread. I'm not sure how the new subject function of the forums works, but I would assume it's there for threads like these, where the topic shifts back and forth. If it works like that, then it should make things easier for us people that end up answering questions a lot. Jinmaster doesn't like answering questions about combos a lot, mostly cuz he doesn't play many characters other than the ones he uses in tournaments, and that's where I try to fill in a lot of the gaps on his thread. I've probably forgetten more combos than Jinmaster knows. Seriously. When the game first came out, i was making a massive combo faq and I had just about half the the characters in the game done. Most of those weren't even the top tier characters whose combos are more or less common knowledge now or the easy characters like Strider and Iceman. About the only characters I know I have absolutely no clue about are Roll and Gambit. I know (or have it written down) combos for every other character, a lot of which most people don't even know for the more obscure characters. If I were to give the average SRKer advice on what kind of questions to ask about something, first, I would say do some research. More or less, do a quick search about a topic to see if it's already been talked about. I had a question once about a Sodom VC in SFA3. Right before I posted my message, I did a search and found that it had already been in a thread some 3-4 months before. Also, you can possibly find information about what your question is about, so you know what kind of tactics are being used. Second, if you're at the point where you are asking questions about a game on the SRK forums, you should have enough interest in the community to know who the good players are and what the better characters are. Just reading through a lot of the shoryuken forums, you'll find things like tier threads and lots of advanced strategies as well. You can also get a good idea of what top level play is by watching the tournament videos posted on SRK. I think those are such a great feature. Especially for those of us that can't be at every singe SHGL tourney. I just wish I had a digital camera so I could capture matches at SVGL tourneys or other tourneys for posting at SRK. A lot of what I would do if I had that kind of equipment is just show people what I'm talking about sometimes. Some things just have to be seen to be believed, and that's what I like most about the videos here. Posted by on 04:17:2001 04:37 AM: What's the Blackheart infinite? Posted by Servebot on 04:17:2001 02:20 PM: Hi, I need some help against this team, Storm(Variety), Cable(AAA), Cyclops(AAA). I mainly use Strider(Variety), Doom(AAA), BH (AAA). My main problem is Storm. The guy I play against basically plays run away Storm at the beginning of the match. How can I keep him grounded? What kind of strategy should I use against Cable? He would always go for AHVB with Cyclops assist. Last, should I change BH with someone else? I know its really hard for him to beat Cable, but I use him for Doom/BH trap when Strider dies. Posted by Bruton on 04:18:2001 03:05 AM: Fluffy: Thanks for the help. Gamma Cable sounds interesting. Has there been any success with MM chipping teams(e.g. MM/Doom/BH, MM/Iceman/BH)? I really like the Iceman assist as it's so much faster than Doom's. And can't he break traps with his charge? Is Sakura's assist good for a hardcore MM team to gain control? =) I consider Spiral #1 in the game, and think that Spiral/Doom is more versatile than Strider/Doom. I see how it could be foiled, but it's too good killing a CPU team at least by block damage alone in thirty seconds and building super as well. Hmmm. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:18:2001 05:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Servebot Hi, I need some help against this team, Storm(Variety), Cable(AAA), Cyclops(AAA). I mainly use Strider(Variety), Doom(AAA), BH (AAA). My main problem is Storm. The guy I play against basically plays run away Storm at the beginning of the match. How can I keep him grounded? What kind of strategy should I use against Cable? He would always go for AHVB with Cyclops assist. Last, should I change BH with someone else? I know its really hard for him to beat Cable, but I use him for Doom/BH trap when Strider dies. well i'm no expert, but shouldn't BH's AAA knock Storm down since it reaches top of the screen? i dunno i think Jin advised against using strider/doom/BH unless as a counter team. well a good strat i've sorta learned is to lure cyclops out, teleport behind and above cable (where he's especially vulnerable) and drop fierce+doom->trap. don't try to do too many iterations as the cable might pull the cyclops on you again. pretend to be predictable, and then when he least expects psych him into pulling cyclops probably should test the ability of the cable first. i THINK you can block immediately after the teleport so just teleport and do nothing, block assist and/or viper beam, teleport again while cyclops is taunting and repeat the fun! this is mostly from speculation and not a lot of practical experience. btw, i think someone mentioned this, but if you're using a strider based team, Captain Commando would probably serve you better than BG since his AA comes out instsantly and has same vertical range as BH Posted by Tuff Daddy on 04:18:2001 02:56 PM: Fluffy or Jin, I'm trying a counter team of: Akuma-G/Storm-A/Cable-AAA. I was trying my Akuma team and Storm assist seems to work well for Akuma. His combo into launcher into hurricane kick XX air fireball super DHC into hailstorm kills most players dead. Cable/Storm is clean-up. My problem is run-away Storms, Spirals, and beam happy Iceman. Not to mention Akuma's poor defense. Does this team lack a good battery? Flaws in team setup? Some advice against Spiral/Beamers would be helpful. Thanks in advance. T. Diddy Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:18:2001 10:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy Fluffy or Jin, I'm trying a counter team of: Akuma-G/Storm-A/Cable-AAA. I was trying my Akuma team and Storm assist seems to work well for Akuma. His combo into launcher into hurricane kick XX air fireball super DHC into hailstorm kills most players dead. Cable/Storm is clean-up. My problem is run-away Storms, Spirals, and beam happy Iceman. Not to mention Akuma's poor defense. Does this team lack a good battery? Flaws in team setup? Some advice against Spiral/Beamers would be helpful. Thanks in advance. T. Diddy Well, you are going to have problems with some teams because you flat out don't have anything that can stop it. The only thing you have that can stop Storm runaway is your Storm. You have no good way to chip Iceman consistently. Spiral should beat you because you have no real way to get around her assists, so she'll be able to call knives very liberally. Those are the match-ups where you're going to have to most problems. That, and Sentinel based teams. Akuma should probably be a suitable enough battery to fill the role of anyone else that could do it, and his assist is pretty good, especially if you're on the defensive and have the lead. You can catch people trying to come in on you with Akuma's assist and can combo just about anything you want after that. Against Spiral, you're going to have to build a lot of meter and do it while not getting trapped. It's a hard thing to do. You are going to want to rely on you DHC to Storm when Spiral tries to teleport. You can usually bait her to teleport while you're hitting another helper with a super, then DHC to HailStorm as soon as you see her disappear. That will net you some damage, but won't get the job done. You can try to rush her down and bait out her assists so you can hit them with your Y-Akuma assist and hit a HailStorm off of that. Often times, you'll catch her trying to teleport to save her assist. Against Iceman, you really can't do too much. Try to stay away from his beams and try to get close to him. If you can, build up as much meter as possible and then wait for a good opportunity to variable switch into Cable and AHVB him to death. Hopefully, you can catch him and a helper to make it worth your while. You should probably loose to Sentinel/Bh teams, but you can help that by switching your Storm assist to Y and starting Cable, so you have B-Cable/Y-Storm/Y-Akuma. There is all kinds of Cable v Sent stuff in this thread, so check it out. Posted by DOA362 on 04:19:2001 04:08 AM: I was wondering how you guys felt about offensive teleporting with spiral. I have heard that it is a bad thing and I can see how if used foolishly it can get into some bad situations. I personally like to read the situation and if I can trap then fine but if I can confuse so that I can get into a throw, combo, or trap situation should I take the chance. Also is it usefull to throw someone off there game? Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:19:2001 08:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by DOA362 I was wondering how you guys felt about offensive teleporting with spiral. I have heard that it is a bad thing and I can see how if used foolishly it can get into some bad situations. I personally like to read the situation and if I can trap then fine but if I can confuse so that I can get into a throw, combo, or trap situation should I take the chance. Also is it usefull to throw someone off there game? Most of the time, I wouldn't bother with offensive teleporting. Mostly, I would only try to do it if I know my opponent is going to stick out a move that is long enough to let me teleport and still hit him cleanly. If Cable does VB on the ground or if Sentinel does a SF, then I know I can teleport over there and put pressure on. If you abuse it though, your opponent will eventually start looking for it and will do bad things to you. Posted by DOA362 on 04:20:2001 04:02 AM: What about using the teleport to chase down storm or blackheart? Posted by Mr. SmArTy on 04:20:2001 05:42 PM: Could someone tell me how to do the combo where storm launches, do an AC, and then suddenly resets the damage reduction into lightning storm? Posted by DeathFromAbove on 04:21:2001 08:42 AM: A strange question: How effective do you think a player can be by playing completely defensively? Note: I realize that sitting and blocking is a bad option. I'm talking more about avoiding the opponent, and using only "safe" moves, and entrances. Examples: (1)not dash/airdashing in with an attack unless the opponent has recently used an assist, and cannot call another to knock you back. (2)superjumping around with Blackheart using only fierces canceled with airdashes. I've noticed a couple of very careful players exceling recently. -DFA (edited for spelling) Posted by FireHawk on 04:22:2001 10:09 PM: Gambit Help Hey its me. Again What are some tips for Gambit? Ya know, stuff like What assist I should use and what partners suit him best. I just started using him and Doom, and right now I just call Doom and Cajun Strike to the other side, with the occasional Cajun Escape to catch sleeping crouch blockers, and chip with Kinetic Cards. Any and all help is apreciated. btw, Props for starting a tutorial thread. People like me need it bad. Posted by Jinmaster on 04:23:2001 03:23 PM: Hm, didn't want this to be a tutorial thread. =) Well, I've had the flu all week and an ear infection. I missed a lot of work and have a lot to catch up on here at my job. I don't have time for the thread right now. Fluff is doing a good job, and if you guys still want input from him, ask him to start his own thread. I know some of you don't want me to stop, but I just don't have time. I'm going to ask Tom to close the thread. If people still want advice, there's always my E-mail. It's been fun, and this thread has helped my own game out a lot beleive it or not. I'm a much better player now, and there is a new post by me in the Tourney reuslts forum you guys should check out. I will still be around SRK helping people, but I can't put the dedication into this thread that I wish I could. I need to take my job more seriously in general, and theres some life changes I need to make. I feel that E-mail is the best way to help people right now. It's a good way to avoid a lot of the more lazy posters, and I can deal with problems a little more personally. I want to thank everyone who has helped out on this thread, and I want to thank all posters for making it a good thread. Remeber, stay in the game. Don't play with winning in mind, play with playing in mind. I know that won't make sense at first, but its the best advice I can give. Play the game, don't get nervous, and just take what's yours. Recognize your skill level to accomplish this. Good luck to everyone in their gaming. Posted by jchensor on 04:24:2001 04:21 AM: Thread closed at request of Jinmaster. - James All times are GMT. The time now is 12:15 AM. Show all 585 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.